Invercargill Cup.

[Brodie]

3 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

And lose he did . Thought the 'Beach Ball 'would be too strong today  (finished 3rd) , but the old Boy 'Self Assured' had him well covered .

But along came American Me and Sarah O'Reilly with one of the most pro-active drives ever seen in a Nz feature against Marky Boy . and she beat him by a nose !!! wow . that was a great drive !! 🏆💰 congrats to Sarah on that amazing win and the connections of American Me . 

Great to see the White’s win a race like this!

They are very good trainers and deserve success.

Yes very good drive by Sarah O’Reilly and also well deserved.

What cost Self Assured was being out in the open for a bit too long, although he is not the horse he once was, far from it!

To be fair American Me did go big in the NZ Cup last month and the run it got was the difference.

[the galah]

On 19/12/2023 at 12:26 AM, the galah said:

Tact macleod, a 2 win, 5 start horse by sweet lou seems a strange entry to run over 3200m against beach ball and self assured.  Doesn't matter how well he may well run,there seems as much chance of downside to upside in running. Also with some of the summer country cups races coming up down there,it seems others who have put in late entries run the risk of over extending their horses before they get to compete in races that would suit better.

Still all that will make for interesting viewing on friday afternoon/evening.

 

tact macleod actually went a very good race and ran the 3200m in 3.58.9. 

remarkable that a horse having only its 6th start and only its 2nd run in 9 months, could run that well.

Running a race like that will have taken a toll on that horse. Maybe not straight away,but it will sooner or later.

Hes a meister and robyns playboy were the last 2 to finish today.At least they are hardened campaigners. I see they are supposed to back up in the $25,000 gore cup in 5 days time. They would have been chances in that race,but i'm guessing that no longer the case.

But its things like that that added to what was a very interesting days racing.

Edited December 22, 2023 by the galah

[Michael]

On 12/21/2023 at 5:20 PM, Chief Stipe said:

 

An even quality field will likely return more betting yield than a field of mugs with a standout hot favourite.  The former therefore has a better chance of less stakes subsidisation.

Comprendez?

 

Of course I comprehend

So it is your belief that the GBR from the Invercargill Cup alone will cover the Cup stake?

Or is it your belief that the GBR from the whole day will cover the 2 Open Class stakes?

Or is it your belief that the GBR from the day will cover all the day's stakes?

Why don't you put a stake in the ground and say something tangible instead of hyperbole and waffling, such as "'will likely" or "a better chance"

[Michael]

On 12/22/2023 at 7:32 AM, mikeynz said:

I think the biggest problem with only four nominations was through shortsighted programming, a rating 70+, the time honored Franklin Cup on New Years eve is programmed a rating 60+ and after doing a little research it seems they too might get 3  place dividends, Invercargill should have been a rating 60 + as it kind of is now.

 

 

So you think that if the race was advertised as a R60 instead of an R70 that another 6 or 7 genuine Open Class horses would have miraculously appeared? What are you smoking down there?

I do believe Invercargill should have its day in the sun,  

Is that to be translated as you think the Industry should subsidise the day like nearly every ATC meeting? It's a question, not a statement

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, Michael said:

Of course I comprehend

So it is your belief that the GBR from the Invercargill Cup alone will cover the Cup stake?

Or is it your belief that the GBR from the whole day will cover the 2 Open Class stakes?

Or is it your belief that the GBR from the day will cover all the day's stakes?

Why don't you put a stake in the ground and say something tangible instead of hyperbole and waffling, such as "'will likely" or "a better chance"

All I said was an even field of a decent size will return more yield than a small field with a standout favourite regardless of the class of the field.

[Michael]

14 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

All I said was an even field of a decent size will return more yield than a small field with a standout favourite regardless of the class of the field.

OK Noodlum

(And you think that the Invercargill Cup was an even field of a decent size?)

Edited December 23, 2023 by Michael

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Michael said:

OK Noodlum

(And you think that the Invercargill Cup was an even field of a decent size?)

It wasn't me doing the comparison between race x and z.  The point I was making was against your point regarding a class of horse being subsidised versus mine about a race being subsidised regardless of class.

The Invercargill field was better than a 5 horse field with a standout favourite from a revenue and subsidisation perspective.

Could the race have attracted the same field for $80k?  Probably.

 

[Michael]

On 12/24/2023 at 9:13 AM, Chief Stipe said:

 The point I was making was against your point regarding a class of horse being subsidised versus mine about a race being subsidised regardless of class.

 

 

Where did I make that point?

[Chief Stipe]

On 21/12/2023 at 12:52 PM, Michael said:

Invercargill may have a field of 9 but anyone with half a brain realises that it's not an Open Class race in anything but name only, and it's a wasted of the Industry's $100,000

I also note you can't rely to the question posed, or statement made, about GBR and the return to the Industry. You bag ATC by asking why they should be subsidised yet you are happy to subsidise Invercargill's raceday which will need sybsidising because of the Cup stake which is out of all proportion to the field participants . bit parochial?

Here.

[mikeynz]

8 noms for rating 60 Frankljn Cup

5 for the feature trot

4 for the mares race

[mikeynz]

There is another opportunity for the top rated pacers in the South, 17th January, Northern Southland Cup, rating 65 and faster, they can create opportunities, top horses though probably have to accept a handicap, many of the so called open FFA races attract so few entries, as they they get chased off by a couple who dominate.

Invercargill last week, Omakau, Jan 2, Ascot Park Jan 17th, its not all doom and gloom.

[Michael]

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Here.

I can't see where my comment about the Invercargill Cup being a waste of a $100,000 can be construed in the way you have made out

My point is it shouldn't have been a $100,000 race and I made that point before the field came out

You are just making stuff up now

 

[Michael]

1 hour ago, mikeynz said:

8 noms for rating 60 Frankljn Cup

 

So now you are agreeing with me?

Or , more likely, you have no idea at all

Of course there's only 8 noms for the Franklin Cup

That's because what few Open Class horses we have were split from one end of NZ to the other

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Michael said:

So now you are agreeing with me?

Or , more likely, you have no idea at all

Of course there's only 8 noms for the Franklin Cup

That's because what few Open Class horses we have were split from one end of NZ to the other

But the Franklin Cup isn't an Open Class race is it?  Its an R60.

[mikeynz]

There actually hasn't been a open class race as such for a long time, looking over this seasons results the closest there has been to one was on Nov 3 at Addington, rating 80 to 120 and that was a handicap, the Hannon, Kaikouras Cup, Ashburton Stakes, the Canterbury Classic early on, NZ Cup, NZ FFA are all races under the race conditions are for all pacers, anyone can nominate but the field is selected from the highest down or you would think it would be.

Invercargill may have been a stuff up being programmed as a rating 70 plus, it ended up being a rating 60 plus but where are some of those higher rated horses that raced in the Cup, there are a few more but they seem to have vanished, I see He's A Sport raced in a discretionary race at Rangiora on Dec 17 a rating 55 plus, technically there was nothing stopping Beach Ball or Self Assured or He's a Sport racing today at Westport, as it's a rating 51 and faster especially as it seems you only get penalized no more than 30m  these days and you don't even get handicapped in the N Z Cup anymore, I remember Joy Boy racing at Westport off 80m, probably today 40m would be the maximum, tomorrow's Gore Cup has  cut off of rating 100, don't see that often either.

Getting back to Auckland sad as it the only time they will get the best pacers converging there is for the Cup in May, the days of the Xmas, new year circuit as it was is over, at least by racing in May the focus is on their race, just as it was last Friday as Ascot Park, outside that they will have to accept that rating 60 plus like the Franklin Cup is as good as its going to get or Free For All pacers races now and then and the South Island will support the Invercargill race with a few other races now and then, bearing in mind that after Xmas there is plenty of racing for the best in Aussie and that's not uncommon either.

It aint ideal but it is what is.

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by mikeynz

[Michael]

13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

But the Franklin Cup isn't an Open Class race is it?  Its an R60.

That's what our Open Class races have become

That's yet another problem isn't it?