cyclops Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Irrespective of reason(s) for HRNZ’s current title holder to move on does it present opportunity for all three Codes to consolidate their activities under the management of a singular Executive. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclops Posted January 22 Author Share Posted January 22 Friday post was made without any knowledge of todays NZTR declaration of their plan for their future….such a pro-active attitude is to be commended , of course, but begs the question as to why the other Codes have not participated in something similar…..also, how about other Codes engaging NZTR ‘machine’ to manage other Codes affairs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, cyclops said: Friday post was made without any knowledge of todays NZTR declaration of their plan for their future….such a pro-active attitude is to be commended , of course, but begs the question as to why the other Codes have not participated in something similar…..also, how about other Codes engaging NZTR ‘machine’ to manage other Codes affairs ? Seems Entain only talks to the Thoroughbred admin. Probably a tie up there somewhere with Sharrock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 hours ago, cyclops said: …..also, how about other Codes engaging NZTR ‘machine’ to manage other Codes affairs ? Fark me, would you trust NZTR to manage a kid's birthday party 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 It is interesting you praise the thoroughbred administration but their recent “new” program, series and renamed carnivals etc were near a copy of HRNZ , CEO and dates taskforce group- A) Slot race B) South circuit C) Summer Racing grouped D) Grand-prix day E) Central feature day(s) This is what HRNZ put in place and got abused for as the existing clubs hated change - we now have a Country Cup with great $ stake , southland Cup with $ stake plus supporting races, big age group day with $ Stake better than the old Jewels and Auckland big days etc. But the harness racing supports/dinosaurs can only complain and never give anything a chance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 19 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Seems Entain only talks to the Thoroughbred admin. Probably a tie up there somewhere with Sharrock. Who is driving the 2 year old racing? Entain is a breath of fresh air for harness racing - they are proactive. Surely you are not suggesting Dean Mckenzie rein was a great period and lead the sport to be better ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 6 minutes ago, LongOwner said: Who is driving the 2 year old racing? Entain is a breath of fresh air for harness racing - they are proactive. Surely you are not suggesting Dean Mckenzie rein was a great period and lead the sport to be better ! Don't you think that Thoroughbred racing is getting disproportionately more funding than the other codes? I'm not knocking Entain although I can't see where the money is coming from for them to make anywhere near a profit. You can't keep buying revenue. My opinions of Mckenzie have been posted many times and none of them were favourable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 1 hour ago, LongOwner said: big age group day with $ Stake better than the old Jewels and Auckland big days etc. But the harness racing supports/dinosaurs can only complain and never give anything a chance. I'm not complaining I'm not not giving anything a chance, but since you have your finger on the pulse could you tell me what Profit Harness Racing made on the Grand Prix day versus the stakes paid out? Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 47 minutes ago, Michael said: I'm not complaining I'm not not giving anything a chance, but since you have your finger on the pulse could you tell me what Profit Harness Racing made on the Grand Prix day versus the stakes paid out? Thanks Isn't that mainly Entains problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 7 hours ago, LongOwner said: Who is driving the 2 year old racing? Entain is a breath of fresh air for harness racing - they are proactive. Surely you are not suggesting Dean Mckenzie rein was a great period and lead the sport to be better ! personally i think the level of the subsidies is so high that it makes it the most hair brained/discriminatory scheme to ever come out of HRNZ. Have you ever asked yourself why the owner/breeders of a 2 year old are prioritised with $12,000 bonuses at the expense of owners of 3 year olds and above. Have you ever asked,who are the people who came up with this scheme and do they have self interest. i.e. will the decision makers fall into the cateory of owners/breeders who will benefit from the bonuses. I thought they are supposed to have a handicapping system designed to race like against like to generate turnover. Given 5 horse races will generate next to no turnover,why have they guaranteed the running of these programmed races with only 5 acceptors? If Entain came up with the idea,what type of idiots are running that place,if they think 5 horse 2 year old races will generate turnover and are good for the industry. All those races at places like auckland and cambridge and manawatu and southland. They will not get big numbers. There is only so much of the pie stakes wise to go around. Give a bigger slice to one group and whats left of the rest of the pie is smaller. Even some of the conditions in the scheme are a bit odd. for example.. if a breeder/breeding entity ceases to exist ,only the owner portion of the bonus will be paid.... breeder/breeding entity ceases to exist if they have not bred in the previous 5 years. I mean why do they need that 2nd part of the conditions. After all,2 year old s will not have been bred over 5 years ago. Also,what happens to people who have say a 2 year old trotter up and running early. Given they can't race anything but 2 year olds,do they just run around at the trials for months on end. Thats going to happen in the areas where there are small numbers like southland and auckland. And who do these winners of 2 year olds race. Are they going to run more small fields for 2 year old race winners? I think its a poorly thought out scheme which will just accelerate resentment and disillusionsment amongst many who think their degree of participation is not valued simply because they have a horse older than 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 59 minutes ago, the galah said: personally i think the level of the subsidies is so high that it makes it the most hair brained/discriminatory scheme to ever come out of HRNZ. Have you ever asked yourself why the owner/breeders of a 2 year old are prioritised with $12,000 bonuses at the expense of owners of 3 year olds and above. Have you ever asked,who are the people who came up with this scheme and do they have self interest. i.e. will the decision makers fall into the cateory of owners/breeders who will benefit from the bonuses. I thought they are supposed to have a handicapping system designed to race like against like to generate turnover. Given 5 horse races will generate next to no turnover,why have they guaranteed the running of these programmed races with only 5 acceptors? If Entain came up with the idea,what type of idiots are running that place,if they think 5 horse 2 year old races will generate turnover and are good for the industry. All those races at places like auckland and cambridge and manawatu and southland. They will not get big numbers. There is only so much of the pie stakes wise to go around. Give a bigger slice to one group and whats left of the rest of the pie is smaller. Even some of the conditions in the scheme are a bit odd. for example.. if a breeder/breeding entity ceases to exist ,only the owner portion of the bonus will be paid.... breeder/breeding entity ceases to exist if they have not bred in the previous 5 years. I mean why do they need that 2nd part of the conditions. After all,2 year old s will not have been bred over 5 years ago. Also,what happens to people who have say a 2 year old trotter up and running early. Given they can't race anything but 2 year olds,do they just run around at the trials for months on end. Thats going to happen in the areas where there are small numbers like southland and auckland. And who do these winners of 2 year olds race. Are they going to run more small fields for 2 year old race winners? I think its a poorly thought out scheme which will just accelerate resentment and disillusionsment amongst many who think their degree of participation is not valued simply because they have a horse older than 2. You have confirmed my view of the dinosaur harness supporter. Go and bred some horses and stop crying about not owning a 2 year old . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 16 minutes ago, LongOwner said: You have confirmed my view of the dinosaur harness supporter. Go and bred some horses and stop crying about not owning a 2 year old . But @the galah has a point. What revenue value is a sub 7 size field of two year olds? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, LongOwner said: You have confirmed my view of the dinosaur harness supporter. Go and bred some horses and stop crying about not owning a 2 year old . Do you think people are going to breed more horses because of an initiative that in 3 years may pay dividends for them. An initiative that i would confidently predict will not exist in such generous terms in 3 years time.You do realise there is no guarantee the bonus will be around in the same form next year,let alone 3 years time.There may be no bonus whatsoever in 3 years. That would be like a car importer buying up electric cars in japan just before the last election,due for delivery next month,thinking at the time he bought them he can get a top price onselling them because of the clean car rebate. There may be people who breed horses who think the same as the car dealer,but no i would not be one of them. I'm not that stupid. Edited January 23 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Personally liked the 2 year old racing decades ago when there were good numbers around! Would be good to have them again, but as it has been stated, having 5 horse fields is not going to do anything for attracting punting! We know that these fields are going to be dominated by Allstar, Stonewood and Diamond racing stables! The big problem is the fact that many meetings are now running at a loss and we know why this is! Personally think that without the punters there will be no bonuses needed!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 19 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Isn't that mainly Entains problem? No, it's not Entain's problem at all I am bewlidered as to how you think it is HRNZ fund stakes from their payout don't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 47 minutes ago, Michael said: No, it's not Entain's problem at all I am bewlidered as to how you think it is HRNZ fund stakes from their payout don't they? Entain have guaranteed a set amount of funding to the codes for the next 5 years. Entain earns their revenue off wagering. Therefore the profitability of an event that Entain offer wagering on is Entains problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) On 1/24/2024 at 8:52 AM, Chief Stipe said: Entain have guaranteed a set amount of funding to the codes for the next 5 years. Entain earns their revenue off wagering. Therefore the profitability of an event that Entain offer wagering on is Entains problem. That's utter stupidity You're saying that HRNZ shouldn't be fiscally responsible nor worry about throwing money around because their payout is gauranteed for 5 years I'm an Entain supporter but even calling it a payout is stretching it a bit isn't it (although that's the terminology everyone is using) In 5 years if GBR isn't covering stakes what do you think will happen? Or is your attitude "oh, it's 5 years away, nothing to worry about?" As preparation for the future (after 5 years) there should be more alignment between funded stakes and return to the industry. If things are flying at that time there will be nbo problem. If they aren't flying will you remain such a fan of regional subsidation? If it pleases you I can amend my query to "Could you please enlighten me as to how the GBR from Grand Prix Day compares to the HRNZ funded stakes, bearing in mind that the deal with Entain only has a gauranteed code funding component for 5 years" Happy now Noodlum? Edited January 24 by Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 20 minutes ago, Michael said: In 5 years if GBR isn't covering stakes what do you think will happen? That's a question I've been asking repeatedly. What do you propose they do with money instead of Stakes? Very few races run a profit as more revenue that stakes paid. Been like that for a very long time and you more than anyone know that. You're also assuming that HRNZ are privy to ALL the data that they require to make an assessment. I don't think Entain will be a forthcoming as before. 20 minutes ago, Michael said: As preparation for the future (after 5 years) there should be more alignment between funded stakes and return to the industry. If things are flying at that time there will be nbo problem. If they aren't flying will you remain such a fan of regional subsidation? Hell even in your day they were subsidising the clubs with pokie money. Where did I ever say I was a "fan of regional subsidisation"? Whatever that means. Does it matter where Entain gets the revenue from? Some argue that the codes own the TAB therefore they are entitled to receive funds from outside of wagering on racing. Hell you'd know that better than anyone!! 20 minutes ago, Michael said: If it pleases you I can amend my query to "Could you please enlighten me as to how the GBR from Grand Prix Day compares to the HRNZ funded stakes, bearing in mind that the deal with Entain only has a gauranteed code funding component for 5 years" You keep repeating the same question many of us having been asking for quite some time. 20 minutes ago, Michael said: Happy now Noodlum? I'm not Noodlum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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