Warm ups - How much is too much?

[Brodie]

Backed a horse last night and went out to watch it win!

However it didnt win!

Watched it in the preliminary and looked very fit and racey and I expected it to run in the money the way it had been going in its previous few starts.

It had a pretty easy run and expected it to finish strongly but it didnt and went vey poor, for some reason?

As I watched it in the  preliminary I was thinking why on earth was it working on its own and why on earth did it go around the 1200 metre Addington track 5 times????

Thats right it went 6000 metres or nearly 4 miles in its warmup, when the race was only 1950 metres?

This horse has has enough starts to be race fit and surely warming up and running 4 miles before a race is going to have it pretty stuffed before its race??

I believe the driver crucified  the horse before its race and gave it little chance!

I have noticed other horses go around as many times as this and I watched A Senior horseman who is now in Oz, go around at significant pace more than 5 times in a warmup and it also went nil!

Surely harness horses do not need to be warmed up much if they are race fit??

Edited February 10 by Brodie

[Shad]

17 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Backed a horse last night and went out to watch it win!

However it didnt win!

Watched it in the preliminary and looked very fit and racey and I expected it to run in the money the way it had been going in its previous few starts.

It had a pretty easy run and expected it to finish strongly but it didnt and went vey poor, for some reason?

As I watched it in the  preliminary I was thinking why on earth was it working on its own and why on earth did it go around the 1200 metre Addington track 5 times????

Thats right it went 6000 metres or nearly 4 miles in its warmup, when the race was only 1950 metres?

This horse has has enough starts to be race fit and surely warming up and running 4 miles before a race is going to have it pretty stuffed before its race??

I believe the driver crucified  the horse before its race and gave it little chance!

I have noticed other horses go around as many times as this and I watched A Senior horseman who is now in Oz, go around at significant pace more than 5 times in a warmup and it also went nil!

Surely harness horses do not need to be warmed up much if they are race fit??

Knowing that extra long warm up, you should of tucked the cash in the back pocket, upside you'll all the better for experience, I recall waiting to have a good punt on a galloper who had trialled very well, the day came and I put my hard earned on, the horse dumped the rider behind the gates, galloped a lap of kumara track full tilt, no late scratchings those days, enough to turn me right off, cancelled my bet, and sat back to watch it win very easily, to my distaste, only race it ever won, his name elvis, when reciting the story to an old friend, he quipped, he was ok after his extra gallop, just all shook up.

[Brodie]

12 minutes ago, Shad said:

Knowing that extra long warm up, you should of tucked the cash in the back pocket, upside you'll all the better for experience, I recall waiting to have a good punt on a galloper who had trialled very well, the day came and I put my hard earned on, the horse dumped the rider behind the gates, galloped a lap of kumara track full tilt, no late scratchings those days, enough to turn me right off, cancelled my bet, and sat back to watch it win very easily, to my distaste, only race it ever won, his name elvis, when reciting the story to an old friend, he quipped, he was ok after his extra gallop, just all shook up.

Had already put the money on and couldnt cash out!

Didnt know what its normal warmup mileage is either, but the punter is reliant on the driver not killing the horse before the race.

When we are watching on trackside we are not aware how much of a warmup the horse has had, so I am sure it is a crucial factor in how a horse can have a shocker.

[Shad]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Had already put the money on and couldnt cash out!

Didnt know what its normal warmup mileage is either, but the punter is reliant on the driver not killing the horse before the race.

When we are watching on trackside we are not aware how much of a warmup the horse has had, so I am sure it is a crucial factor in how a horse can have a shocker.

Bit of a buggar the role was on, guess hard to say wether it was a big factor in the performance, so many things can contribute to a poor run, but I guess a case of pay the cash and take your chances, you may have to back up next start, they have a habit of turning their form around sometimes. 

 

 

[Rangatira]

Is this something the stipes could be expected to pick up on ?

[Brodie]

10 hours ago, Rangatira said:

Is this something the stipes could be expected to pick up on ?

Would be better for the industry than nailing drivers for trying too hard!

[the galah]

14 hours ago, Brodie said:

Backed a horse last night and went out to watch it win!

However it didnt win!

Watched it in the preliminary and looked very fit and racey and I expected it to run in the money the way it had been going in its previous few starts.

It had a pretty easy run and expected it to finish strongly but it didnt and went vey poor, for some reason?

As I watched it in the  preliminary I was thinking why on earth was it working on its own and why on earth did it go around the 1200 metre Addington track 5 times????

Thats right it went 6000 metres or nearly 4 miles in its warmup, when the race was only 1950 metres?

This horse has has enough starts to be race fit and surely warming up and running 4 miles before a race is going to have it pretty stuffed before its race??

I believe the driver crucified  the horse before its race and gave it little chance!

I have noticed other horses go around as many times as this and I watched A Senior horseman who is now in Oz, go around at significant pace more than 5 times in a warmup and it also went nil!

Surely harness horses do not need to be warmed up much if they are race fit??

Its an interesting point brodie.

I'm sure you've seen enough preliminaries to know when it may have been overdone.

its an important part of pre race routine that can effect performance.

I always remember the first horse i ever had and the first trial it ever had. I gave the reins to the driver and didn't say much apart from i think he will improve with the run as hes still a bit fat. Well i then went and watched the driver run 4 rounds at what seemed like near race speed and could tell my horse was stuffed before they had even started. The horse then missed the start,went from 8th to first in 200m,but they still had a round to go and he stopped to a walk. The horse came back in,walking with his nose on the ground,clearly exhausted and guess what the driver said.."I don't think he tried". 

From that experience i learnt that it pays to tell the driver the routine that you have for warming up the horse. You hardly ever hear any trainer say that because they don't want to come across as thinking the driver is stupid ,but personally i still think its very important if you have a new driver on the horse myself.I have found if you do that ,drivers will always do as requested and if not will tell you why when they come back in. E.g. I gave him a wee sprint up in the prelim as he wasn't as switched on as he should be.  

Personally i think it best to have a horse warmed up the same way it does in training. After all,a trainer should know the best pre race(warm up) routine that gets the best results form how it works in its actual fast work at home.

One thing i do believe as being important,is the recovery time between prelim and race,but generally thats pretty consistent anyway as you have to be at the start by a certain time. People seem to have more walking around at the start of a race than they have in their routines at home due to they want to get it done at home,but i think raceday is the better practice of the two.

then you have horses that may be running over a sprint distance,which you see so many races run over these days.

What i do believe is if you interval train a horse over shorter distances,its the second heat that tends to be the one the horse can run the fastest, if you really pushed them. So its for that reason i sometimes think in those sprint races,that its advantageous to see a driver give the horse a quick 400m at the end of its preliminary. Obviously it would not have been warmed up too fast prior.

I remember watching richard brosnan do that at addington over those sprint distances. From memory jack smolenski,anthony butt,those type of drivers may have as well.People like that wouldn't have done it unless they thought it was to their advantage.

[Rangatira]

4 hours ago, Brodie said:

Would be better for the industry than nailing drivers for trying too hard!

Might have been busy looking for a Stevies pie?

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

I always remember the first horse i ever had and the first trial it ever had. I gave the reins to the driver and didn't say much apart from i think he will improve with the run as hes still a bit fat. Well i then went and watched the driver run 4 rounds at what seemed like near race speed and could tell my horse was stuffed before they had even started. The horse then missed the start,went from 8th to first in 200m,but they still had a round to go and he stopped to a walk. The horse came back in,walking with his nose on the ground,clearly exhausted and guess what the driver said.."I don't think he tried". 

Jesus Wept !!!!