Luk Chin Out Until March 2nd

[Gammalite]

4 hours ago, Blackie said:

Yeah, that whip action gets hidden that way round 😀. I’ll keep thinking, must be mid to late 80’s?

is This   "Who wants to be a millionaire " with needing a lifeline clue ? do you need to 'Phone a friend' maybe? 😆

here you go then . our MP horse (in photo above)  went on to win a the Big Group 1 in his first year racing at his 8th race start, to give Mark his first victory in that major race.  A Group 1 race He (Allstars) has dominated training in Recent times and recently won it for the 10th year running. !!!🏆💰🏆💰🏆💰🏆💰🏆💰.

An absolute stunning achievement. Makes him near the best harness trainer in the world. Nat drove 6 of them and they Quinellaed 6 of them as well  . 16 horses top 2 in 10 years = amazing.  

ChaseADream, Don'tStopDreaming, Franco Indie, It'sAllAboutFaith, One change, Ultimate Sniper, Chase Auckland, Ultimate Machete, Lazarus and HaveFaithIn me.  the Winners. 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

14 hours ago, Gammalite said:

The reason is = You want to win the race. Horses would be pulling up all over the place without there cue to perform. 

Never drove a race without one, and would of won sum Total of ZERO races if didn't carry a whip to get your horses focus on getting to the line first. 

Have you ever hit a horse that had given all it had?  What message does that send a horse?

[Gammalite]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Have you ever hit a horse that had given all it had?  What message does that send a horse?

Chief . Did you watch the 2 Hurdles at Hawkes bay just now ????

2 horses giving their All fighting out the finish in both races. the 4 horses were very tired.

Hamish McNeil riding Hell for leather both times . Won race 1 by a nose, 2nd in race 3 by a head.

Portia Matthews riding the ODDS -On Fav in both races. Didn't use the whip in race 1 . Just a slap or 2 and she would of won . 

Learned her lesson and gave BERRY The CASH a couple of backhanders the last bit to scrape to Victory (only just) in the Hawkes Bay Hurdle feature. had a huge weight aboard and needed every bit of motivation a jockey can give it. she did better that time than race 1. Curious won't agree but his horses without a whip would be way down the track somewhere ..... as also rans 😁

Horse got the message. Just got there is enough. Mate , it's hard to win races. 

McNeil doing a fab job in those 2 races today. Reminded me of the good Trotting drivers' having a Go'. Horse's getting 'Sent the Message' is important Chief . (If you want to Win )  

 

[Newmarket]

On 24/06/2024 at 11:18 AM, Chief Stipe said:

The best horses I had anything to do with didn't need any head gear.  

If a horse wants to race it doesn't need it.  My understanding is a horse is very aware of those around it - blindfolding it limits that awareness.  How many horses with a full set of blinkers have you seen run down because neither the horse nor the Jockey/Driver saw the other horse coming.

Perhaps today we tend to want to get them going early and don't give them enough education.

I bet you had some fun on that rocking horse….

[Newmarket]

What about Fred Fletcher with Royden Glen? Piss poor driver but horse was great stayer, I remember him hard driven on Dominion night to win, was out sprinted start before by Preux Chavalier

[Chief Stipe]

46 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

I bet you had some fun on that rocking horse….

I assure you it wasn't a rocking horse.  In fact if you went to whip it it would give you a swift kick in the cart.

That's the problem with Whips and with the Luk Chin drive question - the whip is often for show and gives the punter more confidence than getting more from the horse.  As I say most good horses I've had anything to do with didn't need a prompt (aka @Gammalite) and gave everything they had to win.

Stewards are just as dumb as the punters - hence the contradiction with the whip rules.  If you are over vigorous you get pinged and if you are undervigorous you get pinged.  No consideration that the horse may have been giving all it could.

Do you beat a dog if is doing the right thing?  Why beat a horse if it is doing all it can to win?  Turns them sour eventually.  

A lot of it comes back to how they are broken in and their early training.  The old school Australian trainer was always a bit ignorant in that respect.

[Gammalite]

29 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Stewards are just as dumb as the punters - hence the contradiction with the whip rules.  If you are over vigorous you get pinged and if you are undervigorous you get pinged.  No consideration that the horse may have been giving all it could.

No contradiction Chief . you are correct that all these things happen . Sometimes the rider/driver over vigorous (according to the rules) sometimes 'quiet' like Dr Chin in this thread possibly made the error and Portia Matthews as I pointed out in the 1st  race today. they may or may not misjudged the post. (finish line) but as Always . Space> you would hope the horse is prepared well enough to take Victory. And is 'giving' All it could EVERYTIME,  as you say. 

Stewards do their best to 'police' the action. the racing is still of a high quality most of the time . Don't get me started on the contradiction of Ben Yole v Grimson/Trainor though lol. 🤣😂  Stewards are 'slowly ' getting all that sorted , but things are tricky though. People aren't that honest in racing as we would like to believe. there's a lot happening . 

[Gammalite]

44 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

A lot of it comes back to how they are broken in and their early training.  The old school Australian trainer was always a bit ignorant in that respect.

Com'on Chief . what shite that is. Some of the Best trainers in the world over decades here and do fine getting horses to the races.

I commented to Nigel unhinged about his horse being only half broken. By the LEADING TRAINER in NZ in fact. 'Very Majestic' kicking John Dunn out of the cart last night at Addington . so is John New school mate ? and racing them half broken In kicking and Bucking ? was very funny. Not for the Punter though lol 😁 they'll just go back to the gallopers for a bet anyway.

sometimes they ask for them (Horses like that horse of unhinged for example) to be placed on the ''unruly start list' before they even have had a race start.??? You wouldn't see ignorant Australian trainer of any sort doing that Chief. We educate them in the field a bit better. Is that the best trainer (JD)  that you've got there ? 😅😋 

 

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

I commented to Nigel unhinged about his horse being only half broken. By the LEADING TRAINER in NZ in fact. 'Very Majestic' kicking John Dunn out of the cart last night at Addington . so is John New school mate ? and racing them half broken In kicking and Bucking ? was very funny. Not for the Punter though lol 😁 they'll just go back to the gallopers for a bet anyway.

Well has the horse been well educated or not?

[Chief Stipe]

@Gammalite do you beat your dog if it is doing the right thing?

[Gammalite]

14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well has the horse been well educated or not?

No. looks like terrible manners IMO anyway. Unhinged other horse their at Dunns at a race start in March. ROCK LOBSTER trotted away then just rolled into a canter on it's own after 100m 🙄 . looked half educated too ? 🤔. Wonder if Nigel is worried with his $70 a day for training at NZ's leading stable ? or whether they'll get em' going or not. who knows.

14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

@Gammalite do you beat your dog if it is doing the right thing?

My dog? I live alone with my dog . he's not too bad. Barks a bit at the possums that come out at night , so I hurled a ''rolled up towel at him the other night and got a direct hit. ( good whip arm throw I think Chief ? 😋😂) Dog quite cranky with me for some time after , but got over it. 

The horses racing are usually 'Over-It ' by the time you get back to the stalls Chief ? they are happy to get the gear off and have a hose down. Not the slightest BIT Worried about any Whip action that was inflicted upon them on the track minutes earlier.

It's only worrying Wokes . also My Dog travelling ok today Chief thanks. Just asked him. He wants some biscuits .😂  (doesn't bite like BOAY either 🤣)

[Chief Stipe]

24 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

The horses racing are usually 'Over-It ' by the time you get back to the stalls Chief ? they are happy to get the gear off and have a hose down. Not the slightest BIT Worried about any Whip action that was inflicted upon them on the track minutes earlier

Wrong.  They have memory.  Are you saying breaking-in is a waste of time?  That is they know exactly what they need to do without education?

[Blackie]

Cecil Devine(average trainer & driver) once told us never stop driving a colt, wise words indeed keeping their mind on the job. Hate to be driving some I’ve driven without the persuader.

[Blackie]

Mark Roy then maybe.

[Chief Stipe]

31 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Cecil Devine(average trainer & driver) once told us never stop driving a colt, wise words indeed keeping their mind on the job. Hate to be driving some I’ve driven without the persuader.

Too tired to use the reins?

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Wrong.  They have memory.  Are you saying breaking-in is a waste of time?  That is they know exactly what they need to do without education?

yeah. but in the time and place. Once they get to the stall at home they start thinking about tucker . In the stalls they're thinking about getting geared up. On the track they wait for 'Cue's ' to perform. Whip is a really good one. As I say still used in Wagon and Buggy comps as well around the world. Deafeners and blinkers (things the Chief hates are used in horse racing as 'Cue's to perform as well quite extensively.  You are trying to give the horse the Cue it needs to perform at it's most ultimate level. some are better than others.

Breaking in is a 'Learned repetitive behaviour. ' bit like loading on a float, getting your head washed, shoeing, swimming , anything you do with them Chief. You know this. They are only LIVING IN THE PRESENT . they think about what is going on around them AT  THAT MOMENT in TIME> they come off the race track , they are instantly over the whip cue. It's so obvious. 

Most 500kg horses face a whip cue or a deafeners/ blinkers/ removable hood cue in a race for just a few seconds each week . hardly enough for you and curious to have kittens over ??? 

I'm Not Worried for them anyway. The bloody footballers in this match i'm watching just now,  are doing it waaay tougher than those poor horses do each week lol. 😋 

[Gammalite]

you've upset my dog as well Chief. He knows you said about beating him up and now is climbing all over the keyboard in some sort of concern for his welfare now? 😎  I've told him we'll see if the Chief tones down shortly and see's the horses and dogs are well looked after in Nz and Oz. I don't even think we eat them do we ? 😆

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Blackie said:

Mark Roy then maybe.

No. sorry old mate. try again. Too many horses being too well whip driven by Marky Boy 😎.

The horse in question seen here about 2 years on, from that Auckland first start Victory he had on the previous page in this thread. Very well driven again. 

Robert Dunn driving very vigorously there with the whip too. Perhaps that's why he lost and only clung on for 3rd ? Really  I think more likely the 10m handicap at the barrier was the reason he got beat . 

 

 

[Blackie]

Got it Gamma

Was there that day, remember MM going up to him to have him on and MP didn’t even turn and look, now that is arrogance!

[Blackie]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Too tired to use the reins?

Keep digging that hole deeper Chieftain, this is fun 😎.

[Gammalite]

3 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Got it Gamma

Was there that day, remember MM going up to him to have him on and MP didn’t even turn and look, now that is arrogance!

I know it's 30 years on but How haunted must Robert Dunn be with the Cup being a FFA these days. ?  with all the horses off the front ?

He must really think 'What could of been"  with MM. he still won about $2 mill career anyway.

For the 2 previous years to the photo above with Marky Boy winning that one,  MM had run 2nd to CHOKIN and then BEE BEE CEE while starting off 10m Handicap in both those as well.  so didn't Win one . How cruel is that. 

[Chief Stipe]

28 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Keep digging that hole deeper Chieftain, this is fun 😎.

 

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Too tired to use the reins?

What @Blackie you don't have the skill to give a horse in front of you cart a good wack with the reins?  Need a whip to do it?

[Chief Stipe]

@Gammalite you are disappointing me.  I thought you had more skills.  I take it you were a turn key driver?  

[Blackie]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

What @Blackie you don't have the skill to give a horse in front of you cart a good wack with the reins?  Need a whip to do it?

Keep going, you’ll be on the other side of the earth rate you going.

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Keep going, you’ll be on the other side of the earth rate you going.

So you're just eating popcorn rather than making a serious comment?

I know that you can wake a horse up with a good crack of a rein than fiddling around with a whip.