2 year old bonus

[the galah]

HRNZ stated this in a press release at the start of 2024

"Given the change to the racing season the purpose of this scheme is to encourage owners and trainers to race 2 year olds".

So thats why HRNZ said they were adding $12,000 to each 2 year old race. $8,000 to the owners and $4,000 to the breeders.

Now you would think owners and trainers would only be encouraged to race for extra money if they thought they could meet the criteria for the bonus money. Which is they need to win,or run 2nd to a horse that had already won the bonus.

So you have to ask,is it any surprise that so far we have seen no extra 2 year olds running,as after all,if you didn't have a horse  good enough to win before the bonus,why would you line up chasing a bonus that your not going to win.

Which obviously means ,The HRNZ strategy of pumping into 2 year old racing so much more in industry funding into these 2 year old races was always going look like they really aren't too clever.

That appears to be how it is playing out currently. Actually if anything it looks like there are less 2 year olds racing now than there were last year.

Today they had a 2 horse race,so far they can't seem to get anymore than 5 or 6 to start,and at times just haven't run races programmed because they can't even get that number.

Obviously as we get to the end of the year there will be a lot more 2 year olds racing,simply because they changed the racing term to end in december instead of august.But are there going to be extras running?

Anyway,the point is it does make you wonder about some of the decision making coming from HRNZ. For something new to work it needs to make sense,and the 2 year old bonus in m y opinion was a scheme throws a lot of money for very little reward.

Edited March 20 by the galah

[Brodie]

Very alarming running a two horse race a Addington for any reason!

Think there is something very fishy with the scratchings today in that first race?
why wouldnt you line up a horse to run 3rd for the stake money???

Surely the horses were ready to race or they would nkt nave been nominated and left in the field?

Looks like they were nominated so that a race had to take place and scoop the stake money?

[the galah]

Of note was the fields only came out on monday and mark jones scratched his 2 horses the very next day,tuesday.

Neither on veterinary advice so you would have to wonder whether he ever had any intention of running his horses.

thats the type of thing that should be looked into, as there was over $20,000 paid out in stakes and bonuses yet there was only a win pool which was only showing  $700 with a minute to go.So HRNZ"s cut would have been what,maybe $100-200 to pay towards the $20,000.   

The whole thing does make you wonder like you say brodie. 

Edited March 20 by the galah

[the galah]

Interesting article on harnesslink this week.

One of the things it highlights ,is something i've highlighted before on other related topics regarding 2 year old racing.

Entain appear to be pushing the 2 year old racing for 2 reasons.

1)they believe that is where people will invest next. I suppose it makes sense as everyone wants a quick return on their investment,and these days aren't looking for the horses that will be around a bit longer and which in reality keep the sport going.

2) self interest of those who are pushing and making the decisions to pay the  bonuses and subsidised stakes.

Whether people want to ignore it or not.Its true. The decision makers are looking after themselves.

Classic example.Montana park,run by the boss of entain focuses on horses who run early.

So they want to earn as much money as they can early and if they aren't considered good enough,are moved on.

How do they earn the most money. Give them lots of bonuses and disproportinately high stakes.

The phelan/purdon training partnership in 2022 trained 42 winners,16 2yo of whcih 9 were montana park

in 2023 again 42 winner,15 2 year old,8 montana park.

This year 27 so far,5 2.yo. and 4 montana park.

No wonder entain want to focus on promoting 2 year old racing.

Who own the other 2 year old winners and bonuses winners. are they part of the group who pushed for the bonuses.

Like i said. Just telling it as it is. 

 

Edited May 1 by the galah

[Brodie]

Decades ago as we know, the 2 year old racing was great with many trainers producing them to race!

Nowadays there are only around 6 or 7 stables in NZ that are able to produce rhem to be competitive.

Yes I  agree with Galah that there could well be some self interest in having these 2 year old racing, but is there the appetite for punters to wager on them when they are dominated by one or two stables in the race?

I suspect not.

 

[Doomed]

I can recall the Sapling Stks on the big grass track at Ashburton being one of the big 2yo races. Not sure if it still exists but it certainly isn't as prominent.

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

I can recall the Sapling Stks on the big grass track at Ashburton being one of the big 2yo races. Not sure if it still exists but it certainly isn't as prominent.

Yes it still exists but think it is now only over a mile and has very few starters in recent years.

[TAB For Ever]

2 hours ago, Doomed said:

I can recall the Sapling Stks on the big grass track at Ashburton being one of the big 2yo races. Not sure if it still exists but it certainly isn't as prominent.

I'd say it is the longest standing 2yr old major/group race in NZ  but even though still a Group 3 [I think] it has lost its former standing and often has a small field.One year about 1990 it not held thru lack of noms.

It was the longest 2 yr old in distance [2400m] but over 20 years ago cut back to 1600m ,then in recent few years was 1700m.

Many 'great' horses have won it ..Lordship ,Holy Hal ,possibly Terror To Love.

I particularly remember Noodlum winning it easily on what was common back then, a wet grass track in June.

Time was well over 3min 20 secs and often over 3min 30sec.

Of course Ashburton trots in 1980's moved racing on to hard All weather surface .

The breed ,athleticism etc of the horse has changed a lot over the years and with the high costs involved horses are expected to race and earn much earlier. With horses costing between $20k and $40k per year to care for/break in/ train etc owners cant be waiting around and breeders cant stock them on the shelves for people to come and inspect as late 3 or 4 year olds.

 

[mikeynz]

4 hours ago, Doomed said:

I can recall the Sapling Stks on the big grass track at Ashburton being one of the big 2yo races. Not sure if it still exists but it certainly isn't 

I think Waimate when they raced in December ran a significant early 2 year old race, trying to think of its name.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

The breed ,athleticism etc of the horse has changed a lot over the years and with the high costs involved horses are expected to race and earn much earlier. With horses costing between $20k and $40k per year to care for/break in/ train etc owners cant be waiting around and breeders cant stock them on the shelves for people to come and inspect as late 3 or 4 year olds.

 

the obvious question then is why aren't there more 2 year olds being raced currently.

And i think the obvious answer to that is,its far more complex than people will race their horses as 2 year olds as they are wanting quick returns because of high costs.Thats a very simplistic way of viewing the issue,but it does demonstrate how HRNZ and entain view things.

Again,i would point out the obvious,whats the point in anyone racing a 2 year old when you know its no chance of winning or earning.What does anyone gain from getting well beaten when racing against the best 2 year olds.

Despite the current bonuses and focus stakes wise on 2 year old racing,its looking like its made not one scrap of difference. I don't have the stats,but all you have to do is look at the very smalll numbers running to work out the obvious.

Like i have said and predicted,the only time you will get more horses running because of the bonuses will be later in the year.I didn't think that i was being over clever when i predicted that as i thought it obvious,but obviously the decision makers couldn't see it before it happened.

Its just like the thing about them currently considering rehandicapping winners of 2 year old races back to be rated as non winners when they turn 3.

Again,i think thats another obvious decision that will do more harm that good if you want to keep people participating. But hey,theres hardly anyone left now.

If that does happen,all that will do is see smaller non win fields at tracks like addington as no one except thehandful of big stables will run against them. Then you will have officials and hrnz going on about ...why don't people run at addington with their lower grade horses. 

Edited May 2 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

5 hours ago, mikeynz said:

I think Waimate when they raced in December ran a significant early 2 year old race, trying to think of its name.

You showing your age !

Noodlum deadheated at Waimate in one of his early races as a 2 year old.

Then a few starts later he was the proverbial racecourse certainty at Forbury Park and it was stated he'd have to fall over to lose.

That's exactly what he did.

In the straight some paper blew across the track ,he veered out and crashed to ground when in lead.

[goldilocks]

Waimate used to run the NZ Golden Slipper for 2yo's at there December meeting 

[TAB For Ever]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

the obvious question then is why aren't there more 2 year olds being raced currently.

And i think the obvious answer to that is,its far more complex than people will race their horses as 2 year olds as they are wanting quick returns because of high costs.Thats a very simplistic way of viewing the issue,but it does demonstrate how HRNZ and entain view things.

Again,i would point out the obvious,whats the point in anyone racing a 2 year old when you know its no chance of winning or earning.What does anyone gain from getting well beaten when racing against the best 2 year olds.

Despite the current bonuses and focus stakes wise on 2 year old racing,its looking like its made not one scrap of difference. I don't have the stats,but all you have to do is look at the very smalll numbers running to work out the obvious.

Like i have said and predicted,the only time you will get more horses running because of the bonuses will be later in the year.I didn't think that i was being over clever when i predicted that as i thought it obvious,but obviously the decision makers couldn't see it before it happened.

Its just like the thing about them currently considering rehandicapping winners of 2 year old races back to be rated as non winners when they turn 3.

Again,i think thats another obvious decision that will do more harm that good if you want to keep people participating. But hey,theres hardly anyone left now.

If that does happen,all that will do is see smaller non win fields at tracks like addington as no one except thehandful of big stables will run against them. Then you will have officials and hrnz going on about ...why don't people run at addington with their lower grade horses. 

Yes it does seem obvious.....one of the most serious issues facing Harness is lack of horses being bred and racing in NZ.

If you look at recent years the foal numbers are well down...everything is so expensive, so those breeding to race themselves should be encouraged to know they racing for decent money .If they breeding to sell they hope they will get some decent prices by owners wanting to chase the big stakes.

So if our foal numbers could double then that would mean double the horses racing.

With 2 yr old racing there is basically one class to race in....2 yr old, so the slugs have to race the hot shots.

Trainers can earn a living from training fees if they lucky but are looking to on-sell to survive.

Aussies still love buying our horses and  they tend to dominate the yearling sales at present.  Many go abroad but some big owners like to race in NZ eg Copy That, Self Assured , Merlin and recent 2 yr old winners at Auckland all Aussie owned.

Another feature of harness sales is the 'quality' yearlings who sell for top prices are more likely to earn well when you compare it with Thoroughbreds ! Always the odd exception.

But if you suggesting the big money races decease for 2 year olds...you dreaming ,not gonna happen.For starters many of the races are Sales series races or other sweepstake type races where fees are paid from foaling or as yearlings ! So some running around tomorrow night will be running around to pick up $3 or $4 k just for running.

[Brodie]

25 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Yes it does seem obvious.....one of the most serious issues facing Harness is lack of horses being bred and racing in NZ.

If you look at recent years the foal numbers are well down...everything is so expensive, so those breeding to race themselves should be encouraged to know they racing for decent money .If they breeding to sell they hope they will get some decent prices by owners wanting to chase the big stakes.

So if our foal numbers could double then that would mean double the horses racing.

With 2 yr old racing there is basically one class to race in....2 yr old, so the slugs have to race the hot shots.

Trainers can earn a living from training fees if they lucky but are looking to on-sell to survive.

Aussies still love buying our horses and  they tend to dominate the yearling sales at present.  Many go abroad but some big owners like to race in NZ eg Copy That, Self Assured , Merlin and recent 2 yr old winners at Auckland all Aussie owned.

Another feature of harness sales is the 'quality' yearlings who sell for top prices are more likely to earn well when you compare it with Thoroughbreds ! Always the odd exception.

But if you suggesting the big money races decease for 2 year olds...you dreaming ,not gonna happen.For starters many of the races are Sales series races or other sweepstake type races where fees are paid from foaling or as yearlings ! So some running around tomorrow night will be running around to pick up $3 or $4 k just for running.

The biggest problem is totally that there are very few new owners coming through!

Does anyone know of any new owners in the last few years?

I don’t, and that is one of the biggest issues that will see harness racing die out!

the costs are just too prohibitive for the average person to be able to afford to race a horse for any amount of stake money!

The stake money is also  going to decrease massively once Entain decide they have enough of propping the racing up financially, as  they will not be getting enough wagering due to their flawed business policies.

Does anyone seriously believe that Entain’s involvement will ensure the future viability of harness racing in NZ?

If so, why?

 

[Doomed]

Back in the 70s and 80s the "Cup" races at the likes of Methven, Ashburton. Timaru. Rangiora, Orari etc were class 4, 5 or 6 fronts, and they provided great racing as horses strived to get through to open class. 

That class of horse hardly seems to exist these days, and anyone can race in so called open class races. 

I'm not involved enough with harness racing these days to know whether it is a handicapping problem or something else. As a casual observer I do wonder whether the trots might be better served by reverting to a wins based structure so the general public know what's going on. For example, perhaps have 3 win fronts with conditions, so horses can still drop back a bit but the public can still understand it.

Obviously the 2yo approach hasn't really worked. The real problem seems to be the lack of depth in the open class ranks. The days of having the likes of Bonnies Chance, Armalight, Locarno, Hands Down, Sapling, Lord Module etc regularly racing against each other are long gone. Ironically they didn't keep going year after year because of massive stakes but more because their owners enjoyed the challenge and the thrill of it. 

We really do seem to have lost our way. I know I no-longer find harness racing interesting at all, which is sad.

The only really "innovative" thing that has happened in harness racing in recent years is the return to grass track racing. Perhaps they need to revert to some of the other "old" ways as well.

[the galah]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

But if you suggesting the big money races decease for 2 year olds...you dreaming ,not gonna happen.For starters many of the races are Sales series races or other sweepstake type races where fees are paid from foaling or as yearlings ! So some running around tomorrow night will be running around to pick up $3 or $4 k just for running.

I agree with what you have said.

I never said big money 2 year old races are likely to decrease.

I agree connections of 2 year olds should have been beneficiaries in scale similar to all the other sectors as regards the boost in stakes as a result of the entain deal.

But,if you want specific examples of a pointless waste of increased funding on 2 year old racing,i refer you to the diamond creek farm 2 year old race at invercargill. Its stake was increased form $60,000 2 years ago to $110,000 this year. 

So they gave an extra $50,000 to a race to promote the 2 year olds.

But what did the extra $50,000 achieve. More starters,higher turnover,more media exposure,increased breeding numbers?

No,it got them nothing extra.

Did they get even 1 more starter because of the extra $50,000.

2022,2023 and 2024 all had 8 starters. 

Now if HRNZ had plenty of money to give away then sure,but they don't so they need to be making common sense calls.

Then you have the emphasis on the large 2 year old bonuses. It was not a common sense call because where are the benefits to warrant the 1.5 million $ spend over 2 years? 

At most you were  going to get maybe 40 recipients of the bonuses each year. Mostly wealthy people who could afford to breed in the future if they wanted.Those type of people already know they are not in it for the money.

i'm not saying they shouldn't be rewarded,but isn't it obvious you should be prioritisng retaining breeders across the board.

You can overspend today,but you can guarantee you will pay for it in the not too distant future.

Thats going to happen.

wheres the realistic future thinking?

 

Edited May 2 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

4 hours ago, Brodie said:

The biggest problem is totally that there are very few new owners coming through!

Does anyone know of any new owners in the last few years?

I don’t, and that is one of the biggest issues that will see harness racing die out!

the costs are just too prohibitive for the average person to be able to afford to race a horse for any amount of stake money!

The stake money is also  going to decrease massively once Entain decide they have enough of propping the racing up financially, as  they will not be getting enough wagering due to their flawed business policies.

Does anyone seriously believe that Entain’s involvement will ensure the future viability of harness racing in NZ?

If so, why?

 

A few facts from a Survey done among Stakeholders in Harness ,with a Couple of presentations made at different venues in North Island.

It was mainly from a North Island perspective......most comparatives done with 2016-2022 [ 6 years ] a few covered 10 years, so Covid a big influence. Held April 2023.

2016 Horse Numbers..South 6815 ,North 2524   2022 Numbers ..South 5351 [-22%]  North 1535 [-39%]

-42% drop of breeders in North over 10 years

ONLY -3% drop in owners in North , Auckland down ,Waikato up !  -15% drop in Licence Holders in North.

-25% mares served.  -30% North ,-23% South

Current race horses ..March 2023  510 North , 1500 South

161 two and 3 yr olds total in North ,335 in South.....in total may not be Current 

Races held.... -28% in North , similar number in South [no decrease]

turnover drop -42% North , -3% South

6 years Gross Betting revenue....-47% North , + 6% South

6 years Gross Betting margin ...... -8% North , + 10% South....Brodie heavily resticted !

Other Info.....450 People answered survey....93% Euro , 72% Male ,68% over 60 years old with 20 years in Harness.

Big issues seen as ...Stakes , Handicapping system ,Increased Costs. 

From this you can kinda see why much of the current focus over next 12 months from Entain will be in the North as drop off has been significant.

But where will the horses come from ?

You welcome !!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[the galah]

9 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

A few facts from a Survey done among Stakeholders in Harness ,with a Couple of presentations made at different venues in North Island.

It was mainly from a North Island perspective......most comparatives done with 2016-2022 [ 6 years ] a few covered 10 years, so Covid a big influence. Held April 2023.

2016 Horse Numbers..South 6815 ,North 2524   2022 Numbers ..South 5351 [-22%]  North 1535 [-39%]

-42% drop of breeders in North over 10 years

ONLY -3% drop in owners in North , Auckland down ,Waikato up !  -15% drop in Licence Holders in North.

-25% mares served.  -30% North ,-23% South

Current race horses ..March 2023  510 North , 1500 South

161 two and 3 yr olds total in North ,335 in South.....in total may not be Current 

Races held.... -28% in North , similar number in South [no decrease]

turnover drop -42% North , -3% South

6 years Gross Betting revenue....-47% North , + 6% South

6 years Gross Betting margin ...... -8% North , + 10% South....Brodie heavily resticted !

Other Info.....450 People answered survey....93% Euro , 72% Male ,68% over 60 years old with 20 years in Harness.

Big issues seen as ...Stakes , Handicapping system ,Increased Costs. 

From this you can kinda see why much of the current focus over next 12 months from Entain will be in the North as drop off has been significant.

But where will the horses come from ?

You welcome !!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great stats and to me is a true reflection of where things are at. 

decisions should be made based on information like that.There may have been only 450 people surveyed,but the only thing i would question was the accuracy of the ownership. I'm guessing maybe ownership in that survey included numbers with small % in syndicate shares. They are still owners but large syndicates can distort ownership figures if you include them. Like 100 people owning 1 horse,is still only 1 horse.

The only thing that made no sense was when you said at the end that you can understand why entains focus should be on the north island.

Its like you were standing on your head when you said that given the stats you just quoted.

Entain is about a betting product is it not.

Using those stats, there are 3 times more horses racing in the south island than the north island.

the south island makes 10% on gross betting margin,the north island losses 8%.

What your saying is that entain and hrnz are well aware they have chosen to give us much more of the harness racing product that  sustains a significant loss and has far less numbers to provide that product..

The only way that their decision makes any sense would be for someone to say hrnz and entain are working to destroy harness racing. Then there would be logic in what they have done. 

 

Edited May 2 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

Great stats and to me is a true reflection of where things are at. 

decisions should be made based on information like that.There may have been only 450 people surveyed,but the only thing i would question was the accuracy of the ownership. I'm guessing maybe ownership in that survey included numbers with small % in syndicate shares. They are still owners but large syndicates can distort ownership figures if you include them. Like 100 people owning 1 horse,is still only 1 horse.

The only thing that made no sense was when you said at the end that you can understand why entains focus should be on the north island.

Its like you were standing on your head when you said that given the stats you just quoted.

Entain is about a betting product is it not.

Using those stats, there are 3 times more horses racing in the south island than the north island.

the south island makes 10% on gross betting margin,the north island losses 8%.

What your saying is that entain and hrnz are well aware they have chosen to give us much more of the harness racing product that  sustains a significant loss and has far less numbers to provide that product..

The only way that their decision makes any sense would be for someone to say hrnz and entain are working to destroy harness racing. Then there would be logic in what they have done. 

 

I'm only telling you what I know......

Most of above was sourced from actual figures...and the %'s are the increase over the 6 years....the odd comparison was 10 years.

The number of owners is factual and actual from HRNZ records.

The margins  % are the CHANGES ,not the actual. So in 6 years the South margin has risen and North has decreased.

When I last looked about 2018 the TAB margin was about 12.4% over all codes.

I mentioned Entains current plans...ie increasing meetings in North etc cos it hard understand ...but the obvious drop in North Island action over last 6 -10 years has been significant but the population continues to grow and the sheer numbers make it an obvious target area to increase business.

Just my opinion....they dont build new Supermarkets in Waikickammookau do they? 

[the galah]

3 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

I'm only telling you what I know......

Most of above was sourced from actual figures...and the %'s are the increase over the 6 years....the odd comparison was 10 years.

The number of owners is factual and actual from HRNZ records.

The margins  % are the CHANGES ,not the actual. So in 6 years the South margin has risen and North has decreased.

When I last looked about 2018 the TAB margin was about 12.4% over all codes.

I mentioned Entains current plans...ie increasing meetings in North etc cos it hard understand ...but the obvious drop in North Island action over last 6 -10 years has been significant but the population continues to grow and the sheer numbers make it an obvious target area to increase business.

Just my opinion....they dont build new Supermarkets in Waikickammookau do they? 

In my opinion,theres a major problem with HRNZ leaderships understanding of what will lead harness racing onto the path of future financial stability.

I have always understood that history has shown that the most successful businesses are those who exploit existing assets and financial capabilities over trying to explore new income sources. 

sort of like saying,if your going to look for growth,stick with whats proven to work and don't go looking in investing in areas that aren't proven. 

It should be a basic principle that HRNZ should have when making any decisions.

Its just common sense and logical.

TAB,this idea you and entain and HRNZ have about nz  harness racing growth being linked to aucklands population base, is like trying to invent the wheel.

But to be fair.

How about this.

Lets see entain produce data in a way that everyone can understand. How about graphs.

Graphs which differentiate between the north and south island,but that can be transposed to show the comparisons.

Graphs showing things like proposed number of races to be  run,actual races that end up being run. average field sizes,average start per horse,etc.

Priofitability of the new meetings,gross betting revenues and margins.

In reality,if they really have put any thought into these extra north island meetings,all the predicted estimates and returns should already have been assessed.

Then once ita been going for 6 months,put those up on the hrnz website for all to see and judge.

Transparency is the key to gaining trust of those whose income relies on the viabilty of decisions being made.

Then ,if the decision makers have got it right,then everyone can see well done,but when ,in all likelihood the data will show they got it totally wrong by putting their focus on extra meetings in the north island over the south island,well then everyone can look at the data and say,we demand answers and accountability for poor decisions made.

Edited May 3 by the galah

[Brodie]

There is no logical reason to be giving the North Island more meetings with the no. of horses and owners declining!

Entain is a major gambling outfit that now have been control of NZ gambling for 25 long years!

History will show that they are making a big mistake but I am sure there is a reason for it, which I believe I know why!

I can not possibly believe that the no.of owners in the North Island has not decreased by more than they are saying, or the no. Of horses racing would not have declined so much!

Going to be very interesting the next few years, and hopefully things will improve from what they currently are!

Wouldnt be holding my breath as it wouldnt worry Entain if harness racing didnt exist here as they have got gold of what they wanted!

If anyone disagrees that is fine  but give us your reasons,

The fact that already a-lot of the work is being done from Ozzie, does not give me a lot of confidence that they are too worried about the Kiwis.

 

 

 

 

[the galah]

 

43 minutes ago, Brodie said:

There is no logical reason to be giving the North Island more meetings with the no. of horses and owners declining!

Entain is a major gambling outfit that now have been control of NZ gambling for 25 long years!

History will show that they are making a big mistake but I am sure there is a reason for it, which I believe I know why!

I can not possibly believe that the no.of owners in the North Island has not decreased by more than they are saying, or the no. Of horses racing would not have declined so much!

Going to be very interesting the next few years, and hopefully things will improve from what they currently are!

Wouldnt be holding my breath as it wouldnt worry Entain if harness racing didnt exist here as they have got gold of what they wanted!

If anyone disagrees that is fine  but give us your reasons,

The fact that already a-lot of the work is being done from Ozzie, does not give me a lot of confidence that they are too worried about the Kiwis.

 

 

 

 

i wonder how installing the facial recognition technology in the 100 tab outlets they talked about is going.

Have you noticed any bells and whistles going off when you've been to a tab lately brodie.

 

[Brodie]

36 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

i wonder how installing the facial recognition technology in the 100 tab outlets they talked about is going.

Have you noticed any bells and whistles going off when you've been to a tab lately brodie.

 

I will go in disguise or train my wife up!

I could go in Drag as that seems to be an increasingly  thing to be doing apparently!

 

[TAB For Ever]

On 5/1/2024 at 5:23 PM, Brodie said:

Decades ago as we know, the 2 year old racing was great with many trainers producing them to race!

Nowadays there are only around 6 or 7 stables in NZ that are able to produce rhem to be competitive.

Yes I  agree with Galah that there could well be some self interest in having these 2 year old racing, but is there the appetite for punters to wager on them when they are dominated by one or two stables in the race?

I suspect not.

 

What can you tell us about 2024 winning trainer of Fridays Group 1......Tate Hopkins ?

[Brodie]

9 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

What can you tell us about 2024 winning trainer of Fridays Group 1......Tate Hopkins ?

Probably a lot less than you TAB?

I know he was in a training partnership with Frank Cooney for a decade with reasonable success.

Driving stats show that driving probably wasnt his forte.

Great to see wins by stables that arent always winning the big ones!

Edited May 3 by Brodie