Missing Apprentices

[Freda]

Daniel Nakhle is to be congratulated for his riding academy,  the shame is that it is his private initiative and not an industry one.

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Freda said:

Daniel Nakhle is to be congratulated for his riding academy,  the shame is that it is his private initiative and not an industry one.

Yes and who will benefit most?  Why don't you and some other trainers work together to do something similar?

[Freda]

8 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes and who will benefit most?  Why don't you and some other trainers work together to do something similar?

Can we use your bank account?

Mine won't manage it.

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Freda said:

Can we use your bank account?

Mine won't manage it.

I didn't say do it on your own but if you don't do something you can only accept what you get.  A bit like the local tracks you put up with.

[Cyril]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

My apprentices were a bit earlier than that.

The size of my team dropped and I didn't feel I could justify and support a young rider.

Are any of the apprentices that you were involved with, still in the game?

[Freda]

40 minutes ago, Cyril said:

Are any of the apprentices that you were involved with, still in the game?

39 minutes ago, Cyril said:

Are any of the apprentices that you were involved with, still in the game?

Yes.

Jamie Bullard is training locally.  

Jamie Bates rode in Australia,  and his son - Logan Bates - has started riding in Victoria. 

Kim Lange went to Aus with her partner Damian Browne who had a stellar career, rode briefly and the couple have two children. 

Andre Gillett, not now although rode for Gai Waterhouse briefly. 

[Wingman]

Damian Browne, now there is another very classy rider to add to your list of yesteryears top jocks Newmarket/popeye

[Special Agent]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I didn't say do it on your own but if you don't do something you can only accept what you get.  A bit like the local tracks you put up with.

Chief, I don't think you understand exactly what trainers are dealing with in the thoroughbred code in New Zealand.  Where it looks like they are doing nothing from the outside, many are grey and pulling out what hair they have left.  What is that saying about walking in someone elses shoes?

I have seen many try to get through, to no avail.  Some will not open their mouths for fear of losing the high powered owners they have.  Again, conflict of interest or not, what do you expect those trainers who are making a good living to do?  Stand up and do the right thing, or worry about themselves, their businesses and their families?

The strong ones are not the industry high flyers, and some can walk away and do other things.

I don't see a Gai Waterhouse on the horizon for New Zealand.  Not many give back either.

[Freda]

5 hours ago, Wingman said:

Damian Browne, now there is another very classy rider to add to your list of yesteryears top jocks Newmarket/popeye

Damian is now mentoring apprentices on the Sunshine Coast, so both he and wife Kim very much still involved. 

[curious]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

Damian is now mentoring apprentices on the Sunshine Coast, so both he and wife Kim very much still involved. 

Pity we couldn't have them back doing that here.

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, Special Agent said:

Chief, I don't think you understand exactly what trainers are dealing with in the thoroughbred code in New Zealand.

I don't know "exactly" but I've got a very very good grasp of what trainers are putting up with.  I've listened and observed over many years.

7 hours ago, Special Agent said:

I have seen many try to get through, to no avail.  Some will not open their mouths for fear of losing the high powered owners they have.

Then get them on board rather than just relieved them of their own hard earned dosh.

7 hours ago, Special Agent said:

Again, conflict of interest or not, what do you expect those trainers who are making a good living to do?  Stand up and do the right thing, or worry about themselves, their businesses and their families?

You reap what you sow or even many cases you reap nothing because you sow nothing.

 

7 hours ago, Special Agent said:

I don't see a Gai Waterhouse on the horizon for New Zealand.  Not many give back either.

Why would they when most are trying to cut the tall poppies down.  I see the hypocrisy on BOAY regularly.

[curious]

11 hours ago, Freda said:

Daniel Nakhle is to be congratulated for his riding academy,  the shame is that it is his private initiative and not an industry one.

Couldn't the industry do the same, using DN's as a model? One say at Cambridge, Awapuni and Riccarton? The respective clubs could be initiating that alongside local trainers, the apprentice school etc.

[Freda]

I think Daniel's one has shifted to Cambridge. 

But NZTR has its own rather complicated system, with apprentice 'mentors' and regular apprentice school linked to NZQA standards. 

I don't think they would be responsive to an academy type of operation- and the costs would be significant. 

[Freda]

Years ago we had a two week school here at Riccarton,  residential, and Max Skelton as riding master, when he had his riding school, used some of his retired racehorses for the riding tuition. 

It was great, but I presume either cost or dropping participation led to its cessation. 

[Joe Bloggs]

2 hours ago, curious said:

Pity we couldn't have them back doing that here.

Waters too warm, beer too cold......Oz's gain, NZ's loss.....

[Joe Bloggs]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

Damian is now mentoring apprentices on the Sunshine Coast, so both he and wife Kim very much still involved. 

Doing a great job, gee there are some good young kids in the riding ranks, the amount of young ladies coming through is encouraging that's for sure.

[Chief Stipe]

30 minutes ago, Freda said:

I think Daniel's one has shifted to Cambridge. 

But NZTR has its own rather complicated system, with apprentice 'mentors' and regular apprentice school linked to NZQA standards. 

I don't think they would be responsive to an academy type of operation- and the costs would be significant. 

No harm in asking or finding solutions rather than barriers.

[Special Agent]

Chief, Maybe you have a grasp of what a trainer is going through but, you have absolutely no idea of what happens at meetings and behind closed doors.  Trainers of the past, plus some current ones, have just run out of steam.

I don't understand the tall poppy/jealousy thing. It's hard work for everyone, not just a few.

Like Freda says, the NZTR model is complicated.  Even for licences outside of the apprentices.  Qualifications are great for the ones who want them.  NZTR have the notion that no one wants to stay a stablehand forever.  I feel this information is fabricated because some people do not want the responsibility of becoming a trainer, finding clients and paying wages.  Some people like a regular pay each week, they just like horses, and with all the red tape good people will be turned away and lost to the industry.

Edited March 24 by Special Agent

[Chief Stipe]

25 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Chief, Maybe you have a grasp of what a trainer is going through but, you have absolutely no idea of what happens at meetings and behind closed doors.  Trainers of the past, plus some current ones, have just run out of steam.

I assure you I do.  From what I've seen most Trainers act as individuals and very rarely get together to organise themselves and what they want and work out how to get it.  The Trainers Association was/is a farce.  

25 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

I don't understand the tall poppy/jealousy thing. It's hard work for everyone, not just a few.

I don't understand it either.  From what I've seen the industry is plagued with envy and is its own worst enemy the way you all pull each other down off the track.

25 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Like Freda says, the NZTR model is complicated.  Even for licences outside of the apprentices.  Qualifications are great for the ones who want them.  NZTR have the notion that no one wants to stay a stablehand forever.  I feel this information is fabricated because some people do not want the responsibility of becoming a trainer, finding clients and paying wages.  Some people like a regular pay each week, they just like horses, and with all the red tape good people will be turned away and lost to the industry.

Then get the system changed!  There should be multiple pathways for those wishing to get involved in the industry.  Far better for young people to get a qualification from working where their passion is rather than getting no recognition at all.

Don't think for a moment that the Racing Industry is special when it comes to red tape - every employer faces compliance costs in NZ - granted some a bit more than others but Racing isn't the worst by any stretch.

[curious]

There is movement here. Though mainly at a more entry level than apprenticeships. Entain are the obvious partners for further development in the current context. They have the incentive to improve the product which clearly needs to include human as well as physical infrastructure. It's a shame that NZTR have not seen fit to invest the funding windfall more in both these areas.

https://www.racingnews.co.nz/entain-partners-with-new-zealand-equine-academy/

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, curious said:

There is movement here. Though mainly at a more entry level than apprenticeships. Entain are the obvious partners for further development in the current context. They have the incentive to improve the product which clearly needs to include human as well as physical infrastructure. It's a shame that NZTR have not seen fit to invest the funding windfall more in both these areas.

https://www.racingnews.co.nz/entain-partners-with-new-zealand-equine-academy/

 

I agree.  Jockeys and Tracks that's where we should invest ASAP. 

Afterall anyone can train a good horse.

Imagine what the $4m wasted on the NZTR computer system could have done to getting youth into the system.

[Special Agent]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I agree.  Jockeys and Tracks that's where we should invest ASAP. 

Afterall anyone can train a good horse.

Imagine what the $4m wasted on the NZTR computer system could have done to getting youth into the system.

I know we should look forward, not back but, the amount of money wasted is eye watering.

I always admired the harness cadet scheme compared to what was happening in galloping, back when Jack Mulcay was running it.  I don't even know if it is still going.

With Entain assisting with the apprentice academy there are at least three years of funding to produce our next round of riders.

Everyone on here is right (well a little bit of everyone).  The immediate focus should be on:-

- tracks

- riders

- foal crops

- youth involvement

Everything else should follow.  We can talk about the old days till the cows come home.  We have to acknowledge the way the world is now and work with it.  All of the old methods and old attitudes are not going to cut it.

[Doomed]

With all the gimmick races going around it would be nice to see a race restricted to SI based jockeys. Possibly even a race for SI apprentices. Are there enough SI apprentices to do that?

[Bid]

Will only get worse as racing becomes more centralized, it's the rural kids that go to their local race meeting that see it and want to be involved in the game. Whether that be jockey,stablehand or even just a future owner.

City races you don't see kids there, mum and dad might be there having a day out on the booze at the cup meeting but the kids are at home not getting exposed to the sport unfortunately.  

It's the hotdog and leaning over the birdcage rail and patting the clerk of the course horse that kids start to think this going to the races is a pretty cool thing to do.

Sitting at Grandads  watching horses running  on TV I'd imagine is pretty boring to 99% of kids and very unlikely want them to get in to the game. 

That's my experience anyway, from me going to the races as a kid with causal followers as parents and I got hooked and now train a few slow horses. To watching my kids friends who would come around and show no interest in the races on TV, but a few times the ones who come along with me to the races loved it and now one friend of the daughter is riding a bit of work. 

[Muzza]

1 hour ago, Bid said:

Will only get worse as racing becomes more centralized, it's the rural kids that go to their local race meeting that see it and want to be involved in the game. Whether that be jockey,stablehand or even just a future owner.

City races you don't see kids there, mum and dad might be there having a day out on the booze at the cup meeting but the kids are at home not getting exposed to the sport unfortunately.  

It's the hotdog and leaning over the birdcage rail and patting the clerk of the course horse that kids start to think this going to the races is a pretty cool thing to do.

Sitting at Grandads  watching horses running  on TV I'd imagine is pretty boring to 99% of kids and very unlikely want them to get in to the game. 

That's my experience anyway, from me going to the races as a kid with causal followers as parents and I got hooked and now train a few slow horses. To watching my kids friends who would come around and show no interest in the races on TV, but a few times the ones who come along with me to the races loved it and now one friend of the daughter is riding a bit of work. 

How very correct your post is Bid. Another failing of the powers that be in this country. Aussies know the importance of country racing, and make efforts to foster it. Here we try to shut it down.