majestic man

[the galah]

What was up with the drive of johnny cox on this horse. 

personally i put $5 a place on him thinking he may cross and lead or most likely trail when muscle mountain came around again.

Who could have guessed that johnny cox thought that muscle mountain was not a good horse to follow,instead opting for his stablemate.

If ever you have seen team driving ,that was it.

No way can you say majestic man  was driven to achieve his best possible position.

Like,i'm laughing on one hand that it was so stupid,but on the other i lost $5.

 

[Taku Umanga]

Just now, the galah said:

What was up with the drive of johnny cox on this horse. 

personally i put $5 a place on him thinking he may cross and lead or most likely trail when muscle mountain came around again.

Who could have guessed that johnny cox thought that muscle mountain was not a good horse to follow,instead opting for his stablemate.

If ever you have seen team driving ,that was it.

No way can you say majestic man  was driven to achieve his best possible position.

Like,i'm laughing on one hand that it was so stupid,but on the other i lost $5.

 

Agree totally

[tacula]

100% agree - team driving - hit them hard

[Nowornever]

With J Cox you never know what you are going to get. A superb drive or a shocker. Could go either way.

[the galah]

yes,can't keep a good man down for too long. Mug one moment then hero the next. Funny old day for mr cox.

[the galah]

I see the stipes asked the question and mr cox's explanation was he wanted to lead to ensure there was a strong tempo which would suit his horse and that he thought muscle mountain had a tendency to ease the tempo when leading.

So he wanted a strong tempo over the 2600m. Fair enough you may think,but hang on,hasn't phil williamson been saying for years that majestic man is a sprinter,not a stayer.Majestic man has won once from 17 starts over 2600 at addington. 

The biggest question is,did mr cox actually believe what he said.

I mean,no one else would,but hey if he did then maybe i owe him an apology.Nah,pretty sure he just came up with an excuse for a very poor tactical drive. I suppose he had to make up something.

I also just watched unhinged and ben hope commented he probably got it wrong with his tactics. i guess he just is being humble,but his tactics,whether he ended up winning or losing made perfect sense. getting stuck 3 back the fence would have been getting it wrong.

All in all,i suppose johnny cox made the race more exciting than it would have been if he had handed up to muscle mountain,but it still doesn't change that he should have been driving to achieve the best possible result in that race.

But hey,look at those 2 wins mr cox had. That pinseeker seems to have some push button speed and it must be exciting to be training horse like that.Hopefully he keeps progressing as its always nice to see some of the smaller stables have a nice horse.

Edited March 30 by the galah

[Blackie]

I disagree, thought it was a good drive by JC. You can’t just go out and hand it to MM because he’s favourite, make him work for it. Plus, he had the stablemate come calling who he handed too(blue stars worthy), and he had the trail most of the way, gave both of PW’s chance to beat the best horse in the race, otherwise, it would of been a procession, and I agree, MM does tend to ease the pace when leading and then sprint hard. They were 1/2 a length away from having him 3 back fence. As an owner I wouldn’t have been unhappy with the drive, neither PW at a guess. Good to see a bit of aggression and Aussie type steering 👍. Come in Gamma 😎

Edited March 30 by Blackie

[Gammalite]

3 hours ago, Blackie said:

I disagree, thought it was a good drive by JC. You can’t just go out and hand it to MM because he’s favourite, make him work for it. Plus, he had the stablemate come calling who he handed too(blue stars worthy), and he had the trail most of the way, gave both of PW’s chance to beat the best horse in the race, otherwise, it would of been a procession, and I agree, MM does tend to ease the pace when leading and then sprint hard. They were 1/2 a length away from having him 3 back fence. As an owner I wouldn’t have been unhappy with the drive, neither PW at a guess. Good to see a bit of aggression and Aussie type steering 👍. Come in Gamma 😎

JC has plenty of goes on plenty of horses, and you can't really fault the drive on Majestic Man in my opinion...

It was a BIG Group 1 and Majestic Man ( who has often used his gate speed in Mobile events over the years to get up near the lead early) . once again came out trotting beautifully from the mobile.

The horse is a wonderful credit to the Williamson family and picked up $6000 for 4th still , in the twilight of his career. good on him🏆

Jonny Cox drove how most drivers would love to drive in a group 1 .. >> Lead out then trail , then Sprint lane into the placings. I give the drive 10/10 IMO . was really 'having a go' . and doing their best to make life hard for the Main rival.  i.e trying to beat Muscle Mountain.

What a Win by the Winner !! Ben Hope kept cool and just death seated (and trailed for little bits for a quick revivor with the Muscle Mt)  a 10/10 drive as well  IMO . And they will beat the Aussie 'Just Believe' in the trot-race by Grins at Cambridge, based on that great winning performance coming up soon...   

 

[Walt]

19 hours ago, Nowornever said:

With J Cox you never know what you are going to get. A superb drive or a shocker. Could go either way.

100%.

I put him and Scott Phelan in the same category. The skill is there to drive winners but I included them in exotic bets just to avoid them doing what they do more than others. Be a spoiler 

[Walt]

2 hours ago, Gammalite said:

JC has plenty of goes on plenty of horses, and you can't really fault the drive on Majestic Man in my opinion...

It was a BIG Group 1 and Majestic Man ( who has often used his gate speed in Mobile events over the years to get up near the lead early) . once again came out trotting beautifully from the mobile.

The horse is a wonderful credit to the Williamson family and picked up $6000 for 4th still , in the twilight of his career. good on him🏆

Jonny Cox drove how most drivers would love to drive in a group 1 .. >> Lead out then trail , then Sprint lane into the placings. I give the drive 10/10 IMO . was really 'having a go' . and doing their best to make life hard for the Main rival.  i.e trying to beat Muscle Mountain.

What a Win by the Winner !! Ben Hope kept cool and just death seated (and trailed for little bits for a quick revivor with the Muscle Mt)  a 10/10 drive as well  IMO . And they will beat the Aussie 'Just Believe' in the trot-race by Grins at Cambridge, based on that great winning performance coming up soon...   

 

I didn't realize Ben's nana had passed away during the week and she apparently was his biggest fan. 

He got the job done easily yesterday but to be fair, the race was his to lose.

Muscle Mountain has been asked to do a lot in many of his races. No horse can keep doing that season after season.

I've never met Ben but he seems a lovely young man. His driving has improved considerably over the years and so has his confidence. Both important factors.  I don't want to be unfair or unkind but if Mum and Dad weren't the forgiving trainers, Ben would likely not have been gifted the quality of drives he has. In saying that, the same could be said of the Purdon and Dunn brothers etc etc.

I thought MM was a good thing in the 2023 Rowe Cup. Muffed the start and ran an enormous race for fourth. His issue in the 2023 Dominion when appearing again to be a good thing robs me of some confidence.

I'm reluctant to label him against the big guns who are also in great form. A serious contender for sure in the Cambridge feature but no home run. Would love to see him win. Will be an exciting race

 

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

JC has plenty of goes on plenty of horses, and you can't really fault the drive on Majestic Man in my opinion...

It was a BIG Group 1 and Majestic Man ( who has often used his gate speed in Mobile events over the years to get up near the lead early) . once again came out trotting beautifully from the mobile.

The horse is a wonderful credit to the Williamson family and picked up $6000 for 4th still , in the twilight of his career. good on him🏆

Jonny Cox drove how most drivers would love to drive in a group 1 .. >> Lead out then trail , then Sprint lane into the placings. I give the drive 10/10 IMO . was really 'having a go' . and doing their best to make life hard for the Main rival.  i.e trying to beat Muscle Mountain.

What a Win by the Winner !! Ben Hope kept cool and just death seated (and trailed for little bits for a quick revivor with the Muscle Mt)  a 10/10 drive as well  IMO . And they will beat the Aussie 'Just Believe' in the trot-race by Grins at Cambridge, based on that great winning performance coming up soon...   

 

Can't agree with you gammalite.

Where i disagree is when you say Johnny cox was there to make life hard for his main rival,muscle mountain.

Johnny cox was not there for that reason.

He was there to drive his horse in a way that achieved the best possible placing. 

obviously muscle mountain was the best horse to trail to achieve the best possible placing. He made his own horse, majestic man sprint for an extra 150m,only to drop in the trail behind a horse not as good as muscle mountan. so he expended more energy for the same position anyway.Thats why his drive was so poor.

Pretty sure majestic man runs second,not fourth with a more thinking drive.And the horse would have had a less strenuous run going into its fututre engagements.

So there were many negative results to his drive.

Probably the worst factor was,what people watching would be thinking. Many would be thinking ,look at that fella,happy to sacrifice his own chance for the benefit of his stablemate.Thats what i and many others thought.That doesn't install confidence in the integrity side of things as regards each horse being driven on its merits.

If hes going to do that for a stable which he hardly drives for,whats he going to do if driving for the telfer stable.Like it or not,that will be a consequence of yesterdays drive.Just stating a fact as far as that goes.

Edited March 31 by the galah

[Blackie]

56 minutes ago, the galah said:

Pretty sure majestic man runs second,not fourth

Hearsay

 

56 minutes ago, the galah said:

Many would be thinking ,look at that fella,happy to sacrifice his own chance for the benefit of his stablemate.

Hearsay

Most people in my circle thought good on him for having a crack, did make MM work for the win. Glad I never drove for you galah.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Blackie said:

Hearsay

 

Hearsay

Most people in my circle thought good on him for having a crack, did make MM work for the win. Glad I never drove for you galah.

 

What he achieved was the trail behind his stablemate instead of muscle mountain .Was that the plan?

Or did he think muscle mountain wasn't good enough to work and win. Was that the plan?

was he trying to outstay muscle mountain with the horse phil williamson has said many times is best as a sprinter. was that the plan?

can't be those,because all of the above plans are flawed based on past performances by the horses concerned.

So when you say.."good on him for having a crack",what was it he was having a crack at?

What happens tactically in harness races is subjective,often based on what part of the industry in which people have participated in.

Punters are often different from drivers/trainers.Hence we get differing opinions on whats accpetable to say and whats not,based on the different perspectives.Punters tend to be colder and more upfront,just call it as it is with their approach. whereas those who may be family,friends or interact with someone who is the subject of criticism ,well they factor in, that there is a personality, that they may well like involved.

i get it. But for me,i just say what i think.I know no one,but if i did,i would still be the same. Thats just me. also I trust my judgments to be accurate although no doubt i don't always get it spot on.

But i can tell you the one thing that has always really annoyed me is when i see someone treating the punter for a mug and not driving to obtain the best possible result.I don't bet much at all now ,but i identify with the punter. When i did bet,i could lose big money on a horse and if it was trying,well not to worry,on to the next. But if i was to lose $5 on a horse that i thought wasn't trying or was there to be sacrificed for a stablemate,then i would feel taken for a mug.

I think mr cox drove to beat muscle mountain,not to achieve the best result for his drive majestic man.His responsibilty to the punter,well he showed little regard for that in my opinion.

Also i would note that we have all seen muscle mountain race against multiple williamson runners in the past,mostly driven by the sons of phil williamson or by r may. And every time we have,we have seen each driver go out there and drive in a way that is to achieve the best result for the horse they drove.No sacrificing one stablemate for anothers benefit. Just as it should be.

The thing about harness racing is there is always tomorrow. But our perception of what may happen tomorrow is based on what may have happened today or yesterday.

 

Edited March 31 by the galah

[Gammalite]

It's quite an interesting argument Galah.

What you are saying is >> That a driver is 'trying' if he sits behind the leader on ONLY a HORSE of YOUR SELECTION. in this case the Hot favourite Muscle Mountain.

Because JC held out your selection for the lead ,  in an endeavour to try and beat that hot favourite and superstar horse,  and elected to Trail his stable-mate , the very good trotter and Current ROWE Cup Group 1 champion 'LOVE N The PORT' .. who led and Won that long distance Group 1 race,  then that is 'NOT trying' in your book by JC  ??.  

so can't agree with you my friend unfortunately. seemed a fantastic tactic. Used by Allstars on many occasions. (TheFixer in Nz Cup win a good example)

Cox trailed the leader either way anyway ?? so that must/Has  to be 'Driving to achieve best placing' in one way , a position that a Lot of driver's seek in a race ?...  He was trailing the leader and given Every Chance to Win . you cannot Possibly Charge him with anything. (except enterprising driving maybe)??😆

 

 

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

It's quite an interesting argument Galah.

What you are saying is >> That a driver is 'trying' if he sits behind the leader on ONLY a HORSE of YOUR SELECTION. in this case the Hot favourite Muscle Mountain.

Because JC held out your selection for the lead ,  in an endeavour to try and beat that hot favourite and superstar horse,  and elected to Trail his stable-mate , the very good trotter and Current ROWE Cup Group 1 champion 'LOVE N The PORT' .. who led and Won that long distance Group 1 race,  then that is 'NOT trying' in your book by JC  ??.  

so can't agree with you my friend unfortunately. seemed a fantastic tactic. Used by Allstars on many occasions. (TheFixer in Nz Cup win a good example)

Cox trailed the leader either way anyway ?? so that must/Has  to be 'Driving to achieve best placing' in one way , a position that a Lot of driver's seek in a race ?...  He was trailing the leader and given Every Chance to Win . you cannot Possibly Charge him with anything. (except enterprising driving maybe)??😆

 

 

Fair enough. i will have to agree to disagree with you and blackie.

Yes i do have great repect for muscle mountain and yes i do think ben hope always drives him very well,even if it is easier to overcome a tougher run because hes that good.He was a red hot favorite because punters view him in that light.I had thought everyone does.

Like i said earlier,i put $5 a place on majestic man. personally i gave up hope of him running top 3 when he burnt for a 2nd time to hold out muscle mountain.

Muscle Mountain is a great horse. Sundees son and him are a couple of the best in the last couple of decades. Every time he goes to the races hes there to win and is driven accordingly.

Rival drivers and trainers respect Muscle mountains ability and know he won't be lining up unless hes ready to win. That respect was gained by many outstanding previous performances.

It doesn't matter what the sport,whether it be harness racing,rugby,league,cricket or whatever.

When you don't treat any very high quality opponent with the respect they have earned,then you do so to your own detriment.

personally i think it was a good thing for mr cox that muscle mountain won. Because had he say got beaten by a nose by love n the port and say majestic man had faded to 5th ,then everyone would be talking about how they sacrificed majestic man,just so they could beat muscle mountain. A result like that would not have been a good look for harness racing. It didn't happen, because what i have said is true,muscle mountain is such a talented horse and ben hope always had faith in plan b working.

But hey,Mr cox drove 2  winners yesterday and thats a real achievement as its not easy to do on a premier days racing, when you mainly drive for several different smaller stables.

Edited March 31 by the galah

[Gammalite]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

When you don't treat any very high quality opponent with the respect they have earned,then you do so to your own detriment.

That doesn't mean you just hand the lead to them and follow them around for 2nd . You can still respect the opponents by trying to beat them , no matter how good they are.

Majestic Man has won group 1's , ran 2nd in not one , but Two Interdominion Trot Finals. No reason why he can't run along for 1/2 mile at the start..... and have a crack at beating the young Ben Hope on his star trotter. give it a go I say 😁 for some great racing !!!!!

and handing up to Love N The Port is fine . Majestic man had finished lengths behind LoveN The Port at his 2 previous starts when finishing 4th and 5th (LnP was 2nd in both those races) so take a sit on him and HOPEFULLY push Muscle Mountain 3 back along the fence ?? and therefore a Chance of it getting beaten ??

seemed a fantastic strategy really.🏆 they could be a chance of beating the 'Mountain' with 2 horses if that eventuated ...... Ben Hope too slick/quick though , and hopped out .

And finally I would say even if Jonny Cox did what you and Taku Umanga and Tacula wanted >>> and just had Majestic Man immediately hand up to Muscle mountain ... yawn ...😆🥱😴 lol.. the very good finish by more favoured runners Mystic Max and Midnight Dash may have seen them run 2nd and 3rd anyway . they very clearly ran in those spots..... your boy 4th was his lot for that race I feel. sorry about your 5 bucks though old mate. 

[Newmarket]

Can see both sides of this discussion, but I was surprised that JC didn’t just take trail behind MM. As mentioned, horse is not a stayer, more of a sprinter that on that run looks well past its best. 
 

As for MM, what a win. Things didn’t go as planned but bolted in, Mystic Max ran home well

[the galah]

8 hours ago, Gammalite said:

That doesn't mean you just hand the lead to them and follow them around for 2nd . You can still respect the opponents by trying to beat them , no matter how good they are.

Majestic Man has won group 1's , ran 2nd in not one , but Two Interdominion Trot Finals. No reason why he can't run along for 1/2 mile at the start..... and have a crack at beating the young Ben Hope on his star trotter. give it a go I say 😁 for some great racing !!!!!

and handing up to Love N The Port is fine . Majestic man had finished lengths behind LoveN The Port at his 2 previous starts when finishing 4th and 5th (LnP was 2nd in both those races) so take a sit on him and HOPEFULLY push Muscle Mountain 3 back along the fence ?? and therefore a Chance of it getting beaten ??

seemed a fantastic strategy really.🏆 they could be a chance of beating the 'Mountain' with 2 horses if that eventuated ...... Ben Hope too slick/quick though , and hopped out .

And finally I would say even if Jonny Cox did what you and Taku Umanga and Tacula wanted >>> and just had Majestic Man immediately hand up to Muscle mountain ... yawn ...😆🥱😴 lol.. the very good finish by more favoured runners Mystic Max and Midnight Dash may have seen them run 2nd and 3rd anyway . they very clearly ran in those spots..... your boy 4th was his lot for that race I feel. sorry about your 5 bucks though old mate. 

If you look at the stridemaster times and take the time  majestic man ran overall,1.93.11 seconds and subtract what he ran his last 2200 in,165.84 then you get what he ran his first 400m in.

So according to stridemaster Majestic man ran a 27.27 first quarter at the start of a 2600 race.

He hasn't won a race 2600m or further for over 5 years. Hes run a lot of good placing over that distance in the last 5 years but you only have to look at his record to see why hes regarded as best over short distances.

Also wasn't it last year he was stood down for a month in australia after he bled.

The data backs up what i say in my opinion. Johnny cox in the stipes report said he was trying to outstay muscle mountain.

Thats why i say his tactics defied logic in my opinion.

[Gammalite]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

So according to stridemaster Majestic man ran a 27.27 first quarter at the start of a 2600 race.

pretty slick. yeah I guess you could expect that with the speedy trotter Muscle Mountain in the vicinity. just wasn't really what I would call team driving nor driving to not gain the best possible placing IMO . I actually thought he was driving to Win rather than 'just run 2nd or worse' so I guess it is whatever way you look at it. and could easily of been driving instructions given as well from Phil Williamson.... , that you see the Dunn's and Allstars use with catch drivers too,  in a a lot of feature races throughout the year . 

but anyway .. the great Northern Derby was a bit of a surprise with 7 x Mark and / or Barry Purdon runners in the field , and Tony Herlihy (their brother in Law ) having a good old crack at defeating All 7 of those rivals for another Trainer altogether !!!  lol.  I thought it was very funny . 

even though he has absolute Swags of Winners for decades for Barry and /or Mark. and you would of guessed the great man would of been engaged for one of those runners in the GN Derby

Christopher Dance all but pulled it off too, for the AGH superman,  with a Big Mid-race move to put pressure on the lead , and even get the lead for the last lap for trainers Logan Hollis and Shane Robertson. just beaten a just a Head in the end. (by the fav of Barry's  who drew one)  actually Tony beat a Hollis/Robertson runner into 2nd place,  3 years ago with KRUG when he drove that horse to GN Derby victory,  so might of been looking to get one back for them 😁 🏆

Tony showing No 'family favouritism' then like that feature Addington trot . Brodie won't be happy seeing such great racing in the North  😉. 

[Counter Punch]

11 hours ago, the galah said:

 

So according to stridemaster Majestic man ran a 27.27 first quarter at the start of a 2600 race.

No wonder he was looking for a bit of cover then... smart move to hand up after doing that early. 

I'll stick the neck out and say if it had been Mystic Max who came looking instead of Love N The Port that the lead still would have been there.

Had it been him, then this entire topic wouldn't even be debated. 

 

[the galah]

4 hours ago, Counter Punch said:

No wonder he was looking for a bit of cover then... smart move to hand up after doing that early. 

I'll stick the neck out and say if it had been Mystic Max who came looking instead of Love N The Port that the lead still would have been there.

Had it been him, then this entire topic wouldn't even be debated. 

 

"Had it been him then this entire topic wouldn't be debated" you say.

So thats your answer to the Fact it was a stablemate..Just visualise in my mind that it was someone else. There you go,now i've done that,i can stop bagging cox.Got it. Thanks counter punch. 

And you also seem happy to say cox's drive made perfect sense from the point he decided to take a trail,because he had burnt hard in the first 400m.

Sorry,but the race was run over 2600m and my posts have clearly also been about his tactics used in the first 400m.

My comments relate to what happened,not what if's.

You know,i've come to the conclusion that even stating the blatantly obvious is deemed a no go area by some these days.

All it does is confirm my long held opinion.

That people within harness racing operate, live and think within their own  bubble and when it comes to higher profile personalitites that people like,well critcism of them is a no go area.Even commenting about someones drive is deemed unneccsary because feelings may be hurt.It even permeates the media.I'm not saying i can't see a little merit in that approach,i'm just saying i find its just not me.

I know that,always have because i've seen it over so many years now. 

On one hand i admire the loyalty,on the other i think it leads to situations where, when something big  happens which generates negative publicity for the industry,people involved are caught by surprise and the flow on effects of that, is it can have many unnecessary and alarming consequences on people minds.If you don't know what i mean,just think about it,i can name many many examples.It should never come to that ,but it does and its a consequence of the the mindset created by being in the bubble i talk about.

Anyway,i don't live in the bubble.

I think harness racing is full of good people and anyone who has success earns it as it doesn't come easy.I think people like you,counter punch also do a top job and put your heart and soul into promoting the sport.But i also believe you have the bubble type of thinking as well.I follow harness racing because of the horses,but the people within harness racing are really good people.

But i've been at the point for a wee while now where i think people should be able to discuss topics involving personalities,so i do. Bit of a yarn is where i do it.

I've had a good day,so i haven't written this to let of steam,but i do find when i discuss topics like this i scratch my head.. 

Edited April 1 by the galah

[Gammalite]

10 hours ago, the galah said:

You know,i've come to the conclusion that even stating the blatantly obvious is deemed a no go area by some these days.

Well in a way it is. Unless you have evidence of races fixing (which has been elevated to the level of Match fixing and is a Police criminal charge) it should be a No go area .

Dunn's and Allstars and we've even seen some Telfer and D.Ferguson occasions over the years have often used stable-mates to 'Gain advantage' over a Main rival in a race. Allstars win with Amazing Dream in the Auckland Cup was a beautifuul example how to pull off a defeat of the star horse rival Copy That . these people are fabulous horsemen (and women) Team driving is a real thing . and usually while driving to 'Give your horse Every Chance to place first in a race' they can help stable-mates achieve the same chance and simultaneously Prevent the Main Rival getting that same chance.  

You're just 'barking up the wrong tree' with this Majestic Man example.

An open class trotter should be able to pressure Muscle Mountain all they like to try and beat him... a quick first quarter is fine . after all ... Muscle mountain had to trot that same time as well ? and therefore be more vulnerable at the end of the race (all going well lol 😉)

Majestic Man has had 3 Great Southern Star runs and a whole 'Catelogue ' of great wins over the years. Here he is 'Beating Up' the current Aussie Superstar Just Believe last year. (Just believe has nearly gone undefeated since then )  he is down the inside in this photo.

Go Majestic Man !!! (and good on Jonny Cox not taking a 'backward step too ' in your National trot the other night . ) all good mate . Jonny not my favourite driver,  but love it when someone has a crack at beating the good ones, and seems a little unfair to be criticized for it IMO )   

Edited April 1 by Gammalite

[the galah]

11 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Well in a way it is. Unless you have evidence of races fixing (which has been elevated to the level of Match fixing and is a Police criminal charge) it should be a No go area .

Dunn's and Allstars and we've even seen some Telfer and D.Ferguson occasions over the years have often used stable-mates to 'Gain advantage' over a Main rival in a race. Allstars win with Amazing Dream in the Auckland Cup was a beautifuul example how to pull off a defeat of the star horse rival Copy That . these people are fabulous horsemen (and women) Team driving is a real thing . and usually while driving to 'Give your horse Every Chance to place first in a race' they can help stable-mates achieve the same chance and simultaneously Prevent the Main Rival getting that same chance.  

You're just 'barking up the wrong tree' with this Majestic Man example.

An open class trotter should be able to pressure Muscle Mountain all they like to try and beat him... a quick first quarter is fine . after all ... Muscle mountain had to trot that same time as well ? and therefore be more vulnerable at the end of the race (all going well lol 😉)

Majestic Man has had 3 Great Southern Star runs and a whole 'Catelogue ' of great wins over the years. Here he is 'Beating Up' the current Aussie Superstar Just Believe last year. (Just believe has nearly gone undefeated since then )  he is down the inside in this photo.

Go Majestic Man !!! (and good on Jonny Cox not taking a 'backward step too ' in your National trot the other night . ) all good mate . Jonny not my favourite driver,  but love it when someone has a crack at beating the good ones, and seems a little unfair to be criticized for it IMO )   

Why can't you,blackie or counter punch just look at the majestic mans record that i have referred you too? .

Again,if you want proof of what i've been saying,just look at majestic mans record in the last 5 years.

He hasn't been able to win at all at 2600m or beyond.

The furtherest he had been able to win in 5 years was one lower stake race in australia at 2400m.

In new zealand ,do you know how many races he has won beyond 2000m in the last 5 years?

One.And that was a 2200 5 horse race at cambridge where he went to the front and went slow and ran a 2.00.4 mile rate.

Now.

What did johhny cox say to the stipes.

"he wanted to ensure there was a strong tempo throughout,which would suit his runner".

Those of you who have said cox's tactics of parking out muscle mountain and trying to outstay his rivals,well put bluntly,i think you simply come across as being the devils advocate. Your stance can't be based on any logic.I simply don't believe you are that poor a judges of form and the horses records.

So why are you devils advocate on this topic.

Again,my guess is you believe that commenting on a higher profile participants drive in a negative way is not what should happen,even on here a social platform like this where lots of subjects are discussed..

So what happens , you just ignore what so obviously counters what you are saying.The cause is more important than the facts.

And if i was to analyse  counter punch i suppose his comments were partly motivated because he has a relation who works with cox,and no doubt thinks highly of him,so just looking after a mate type thing.In each case i think the motives are well intentioned but don't stand scrutiny. And each of you know that.

Whether you agree with what i just said,whatever. 

Edited April 2 by the galah

[Nowornever]

19 minutes ago, the galah said:

What did johhny cox say to the stipes

It is not hard to hoodwink the stipes at all. Well done to J Cox, that is pretty much what I would have said as well.

[Gammalite]

41 minutes ago, the galah said:

He hasn't been able to win at all at 2600m or beyond.

The furtherest he had been able to win in 5 years was one lower stake race in australia at 2400m.

In new zealand ,do you know how many races he has won beyond 2000m in the last 5 years?

He's an Open Class trotter. a Group 1 winner. 2 x 2nd in the Interdominion Trot Final . 

2 years/ and 3 months ago narrowly beaten 2nd in the Interdominion Grand Final . over 3000m . Just Believe the winner of both Interdom Grand Finals (with series clean sweeps) since then was only 3rd in the Final against Majestic Man. (Anthony Butt drove him in that)  . 

What's wrong with driving him (Majestic Man) like a Good horse ?

you argue against yourself by saying he hasn't won because because blah blah. .... if that's the Case , as you want to present it . WHY NOT try something different then ? and use him a bit early to put pressure on the others.?  to see if it gets him back near winning?  . try something different with Jonny Cox the man for the job ?  'Temporale' had the same problems as he got older . young whipper Snappers nipping at his old heels. still ran placings and 'had a go'. 

Just drive em' like a good horse mate . 

They ARE good horses that try hard. get em' in the race. go for it Jonny !

sit back and let Ben Hope have a picnic in front is what you guys wanted ? that's a Nz answer to the problem lol 😄 and blame poor old Majestic Man for not being good enough .

send him to those grass track races off 80m behind then ?? . We could see if Jonny Cox is a good driver then or not 😉 . and just let Muscle Mountain walk the Group races in with a no contest.... 

can't wait till the 'Big Trot-Slot ' next for him (can the Muscle handle the Aussie challenge?)  ..damn shame Majestic Man not in it really . would have possibly done better than Mystic Max . ?   Majestic Man had 21 Australian starts (for 5 wins) and always gave his best.  beat the champ 'Just Believe' a year ago on his home turf. 

1 hour ago, the galah said:

Why can't you,blackie or counter punch just look at the majestic mans record that i have referred you too? .

very very few have a better record. he's been a grand campaigner.