Gammalite Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, SLB2.0 said: In MY opinion, Frankel would destroy any middle-distance (1600-2000) race in Australia at the moment. However, I believe Winx would have beaten Frankel in Australia. Unsure why Black Caviar was even mentioned in the same sentence as Frankel, as my point was only about the clear class difference between UK and Aus middle-distance runners. Yes , we didn't see Frankel out this way , but renowned horse people like expert Francesca Cumani for example , rated him the best she ever saw when she presenting opinion down here for the Feature races. seems he would be too good. Black Caviar is always worth a mention mate 😁 . ( the Aussie equal of Imperatriz I spose ) and as for Winx , would of been great to take her on with Verry Elleegant . She wasn't scared of a good mile gallop and could take it out to 2 miles and win a Melbourne Cup . ( and beat the highly rated and lowly rated UK imports with regularity. A real shame about the Northern Hemisphere bid too late in her career , after she had "given it everything she's got Captain" as Scotty would say to Kirk on Star Trek for all those years. 😂 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) It's interesting you mentioned Verry Elleegant. The almost perfect example... almost Granted, she was tired, but her form in Europe was dreadful, almost out of sight, overnight. Laying claim that winning in Australia is much, much, much easier than winning anywhere in Europe (at middle distance), even average races like she was lining up in. But, unlike you Gammlite, who can have a discussion without sounding off, the others aren't capable of such. Edited April 22 by SLB2.0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 14 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said: Granted, she was tired, but her form in Europe was dreadful, almost out of sight, overnight. Laying claim that winning in Australia is much, much, much easier than winning anywhere in Europe (at middle distance), even average races like she was lining up in. Yes she was tired. How many UK horses do what she did in her last two seasons over a range of distances let alone run 2 high class 2 mile performances. Her last Melbourne Cup run was elite and she was unlikely to ever come back from that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 Why don't we compare Frankel vs Verry Elleegant? She'd win overall by a mile. She had 39 starts. Frankel 14. She won from 1400m to 3200m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 True, and she didn't come back from that, at least in Europe. I rate UK middle-distance form (1600-2000m) much higher than Aus, so obviously I pick Frankel, and I would say by around 3-4 lengths on a peak VE. Obviously, my opinion, because it never happened. You'll disagree, and your opinion will be just that, an opinion. I won't find the need to personally attack anyone who disagrees with my opinion, because if I did, my opinion alone holds no weight. But all good. We will continue to see third-rate UK runners come to Australia and win, and still have Australians thinking they have the best horses in the world. It's clear, to most, that they don't. Champions we have noted aside, the overall quality of horses in Australia right now is poor (IMO, JMHO, in my opinion, in my honest opinion). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 6 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said: I rate UK middle-distance form (1600-2000m) much higher than Aus, so obviously I pick Frankel, and I would say by around 3-4 lengths on a peak VE. That's a very narrow range. Verry Elleegant won Grp 1 races at more distances than Frankel. Frankel was a freak but a narrow freak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Sure, as I've said throughout this thread, 1600m-2000m (middle distance). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 9 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said: Sure, as I've said throughout this thread, 1600m-2000m (middle distance). But your analysis doesn't stack up. Not that you have provided much more evidence than Frankel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 Interesting fact - both Imperatriz and Verry Elleegant won at Ruakaka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Sunline as well (Listed 2yo) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 24 minutes ago, Wingman said: Sunline as well (Listed 2yo) You guys sure didn't get to see the great mare much in NZ. The great mare had those 3 x 2 year old starts back in 1998. 2 x 3 year old handicaps (Hastings and Ellerslie) the year after Then 2 x Breeders stakes at Puke, 2 x Waikato sprints at Te Rapa Sunline Won All 9 of those over a 4 year period. ... so a bit light on the racing in NZ bit.? Just as well Melody Belle came along to entertain the locals there a bit. Maybe Sunline's an 'honorary Aussie' like VE ? 😎👍🇦🇺 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 22 Author Share Posted April 22 14 minutes ago, Gammalite said: You guys sure didn't get to see the great mare much in NZ. The great mare had those 3 x 2 year old starts back in 1998. 2 x 3 year old handicaps (Hastings and Ellerslie) the year after Then 2 x Breeders stakes at Puke, 2 x Waikato sprints at Te Rapa Sunline Won All 9 of those over a 4 year period. ... so a bit light on the racing in NZ bit.? Just as well Melody Belle came along to entertain the locals there a bit. Maybe Sunline's an 'honorary Aussie' like VE ? 😎👍🇦🇺 You're 🎳 underarm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: You're 🎳 underarm. haha 😆 just kidding Chief. plenty of runs scored so you'll never catch up 😂. Sunline of course trained throughout by the McKee family and as well as the Big Aus wins , took a Hong Kong Mile crown too. (and 3rd in Dubai) . whatta beauty she was. One of the true great NZ racehorses. Hey at the same time , another NZ trained mare was racing in Aus and thumping out some big Staying victories including a handy 'double'. Loved her heaps, and hope she won some races in NZ as well. Can you think who that might be ? 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Lane Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 5 minutes ago, Gammalite said: haha 😆 just kidding Chief. plenty of runs scored so you'll never catch up 😂. Sunline of course trained throughout by the McKee family and as well as the Big Aus wins , took a Hong Kong Mile crown too. (and 3rd in Dubai) . whatta beauty she was. One of the true great NZ racehorses. Hey at the same time , another NZ trained mare was racing in Aus and thumping out some big Staying victories including a handy 'double'. Loved her heaps, and hope she won some races in NZ as well. Can you think who that might be ? 👍 Ethereal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 30 minutes ago, Pete Lane said: Ethereal. yes 👍💰. one of the All time great Melbourne Cups. won by u-beaut champ Ethereal . Sheila Laxon training the Big Caulfield Cup - Melbourne Cup double. (also a BMW in Sydney town) ( NZ Mare Verry Elleegant Winning both races too. in different years.) Ethereal mows down Give The Slip here in the last few metres of 2001 Cup after Give The Slip had 'given them all the slip' and was 6 lengths in front at the 200 😁 . great win for Sheila Laxon . The first Lady Trainer in history to Win the Melbourne Cup. fantastic for NZ . Need Freda to have a go now ? 🏆 maybe Orchestral will get stronger too ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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