Rangatira Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 17 minutes ago, Brodie said: BOAY is a harness racing forum and open for anyone to post their thoughts and opinions! Several of us make posts on things they think are currently wrong with harness racing and make suggestions as to how things could be improved etc.! It is disappointing that we do not seem to have anyone from HRNZ or TAB/Entain actually come on here and advise us why they do things the way they are, and to be honest it seems very gutless! Why on earth do they just sit in their offices and allow the industry to be decimated ks hard to fathom, however they seem to be happy enough as long as they are continuing to receive their salaries into their Bank account! Come on HRNZ and TAB/Entain, come in and express your reasons for why you make what Many of us consider detrimental decisions! when did you invite them ? who did you invite ? what was their response ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 5 hours ago, the galah said: Brodie isn't stupid. But none the less capable of such !@!!!&% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 12 minutes ago, Rangatira said: when did you invite them ? who did you invite ? what was their response ? Ranga, they are invited to put their point of view forward every single time that a posting is made questioning their actions and business plan! The fact that they are always silent tends to suggest that they can not support or defend their actions! Would love for them to prove us wrong but I dont think that they nave anyone that can justify many of their decisions! More than happy for them to prove us wrong if they can? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 22 minutes ago, Brodie said: Ranga, they are invited to put their point of view forward every single time that a posting is made questioning their actions and business plan! What are their log in names on here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 29 minutes ago, Rangatira said: What are their log in names on here ? Wouldnt know Ranga. Dont believe that if they thought long and hard about their decisions they couldnt hustify them with any logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 (edited) heres another different hypothetical solution to the brodie issue,from the ones i suggested earlier in year. The tab currently guarantee some pools. Why not have 3 or 4 races on some racedays with guaranteed start pools of $10,000 already invested by the tab on the place tote. All they would have to do is calculate the $10,000 they invest to have the starting pool place prices have a starting point reflecting the ff prices they have set.Obviously they would be slightly higher given the tab bank on taking bigger % from ff than they do tote.from there further money invested by punters changes the prices as happens now. Then if brodie saw a horse paying $3 for a place on the tote at the last minute that he thought its real price should be $2.50 ,then brodie could invest his $1000 a place on the tote and the price would only drop to arounbd $2.40-$2.50.That would happen and is calculated on the 10,000 guaranteed pool,plus the average $6.000 we currently get. Brodie happy,the tab happy as while the tab return from that horse not as much ,they getting the extra $ commision from money brodie bet,plus their return on the other placegetters would have increased . Win/win. Then more and more punters get involved on those race tote pools,returns go through the roof and all punters and tab, live happily ever after. Edited April 23 by the galah 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 hours ago, the galah said: heres another different hypothetical solution to the brodie issue,from the ones i suggested earlier in year. The tab currently guarantee some pools. Why not have 3 or 4 races on some racedays with guaranteed start pools of $10,000 already invested by the tab on the place tote. All they would have to do is calculate the $10,000 they invest to have the starting pool place prices have a starting point reflecting the ff prices they have set.Obviously they would be slightly higher given the tab bank on taking bigger % from ff than they do tote.from there further money invested by punters changes the prices as happens now. Then if brodie saw a horse paying $3 for a place on the tote at the last minute that he thought its real price should be $2.50 ,then brodie could invest his $1000 a place on the tote and the price would only drop to arounbd $2.40-$2.50.That would happen and is calculated on the 10,000 guaranteed pool,plus the average $6.000 we currently get. Brodie happy,the tab happy as while the tab return from that horse not as much ,they getting the extra $ commision from money brodie bet,plus their return on the other placegetters would have increased . Win/win. Then more and more punters get involved on those race tote pools,returns go through the roof and all punters and tab, live happily ever after. I don't think the TAB gonna pour money/advertising into place pools. I suspect they going on Aussie history/experience and challenging people to back winners ...or take the various other options around 'losers' which folk can build into their multis which growing in popularity by the week ! Field sizes in NZ overall seem to be shrinking so paying out 3 x dividends per race seems a bit 'boring'. And possibly not showing place prices on TV screen immediate before a race is surely a huge hint. Challenge yourself to pick winners or a a decent multi with a few first 3 ,4 or 5 options . No ,if Brodie wants a challenge to show his skill and do better than the rest of us he should back on the nose , or throw his astute place chances into multis. Better advice would be to bet on the tote ,become a VIP and negotiate a Rebate and some nice trips and fancy functions. Or take up bridge ! At least he should discuss his 'wants' and 'needs' with TAB bosses and develop a working relationship with them. The TAB & BGP ,have developed a WIN/WIN relationship ...a term you often use....they even have helped the TAB get new people [thousands] to open accounts but they have to negotiate their big bets with the Ma and Pa bets small stakes...the TAB often says NO cos they want and need to make a profit off BGP , and they do ! They certainly not going to endorse big bets on small place pools ......not so long ago they used to pay out what the weight of bets on a race justified....and place prices were less than a $. They starting giving money back ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 23 Author Share Posted April 23 (edited) 8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: I don't think the TAB gonna pour money/advertising into place pools. I suspect they going on Aussie history/experience and challenging people to back winners ...or take the various other options around 'losers' which folk can build into their multis which growing in popularity by the week ! Field sizes in NZ overall seem to be shrinking so paying out 3 x dividends per race seems a bit 'boring'. And possibly not showing place prices on TV screen immediate before a race is surely a huge hint. Challenge yourself to pick winners or a a decent multi with a few first 3 ,4 or 5 options . No ,if Brodie wants a challenge to show his skill and do better than the rest of us he should back on the nose , or throw his astute place chances into multis. Better advice would be to bet on the tote ,become a VIP and negotiate a Rebate and some nice trips and fancy functions. Or take up bridge ! At least he should discuss his 'wants' and 'needs' with TAB bosses and develop a working relationship with them. The TAB & BGP ,have developed a WIN/WIN relationship ...a term you often use....they even have helped the TAB get new people [thousands] to open accounts but they have to negotiate their big bets with the Ma and Pa bets small stakes...the TAB often says NO cos they want and need to make a profit off BGP , and they do ! They certainly not going to endorse big bets on small place pools ......not so long ago they used to pay out what the weight of bets on a race justified....and place prices were less than a $. They starting giving money back ! I agree brodie and tab should talk,but going by my experience and having spoken to another punter classified as a so called elite punter,it would be a waste of time for him. The people from the tab who liase with the elite customers(their elite team) would do there best to help,but the bean counters with no brains in the other departments would stop anything constructive coming from discussions. so yes,brodie should talk to the tab,but only so he could add to his posts,i've talked to the tab and that was a waste of time. I know my hypothetical won't happen,but to me there is logic in what i say as i believe it could well work and create income for the tab. whether the time and resources v returns is that good only giving it a go would tell. The main point there was to highlight how small place pools are very unattractive to bet into and bigger ones are enticing. Also ,when it comes to pool size,how much of the win pools are being inflated with money offloaded from bookies holds to mitigate their losses. That wouldn't happen to the same extent for a place. My theory is the tab/enatin is promoting the win pools more on their graphics because theres more money in it for them in that they can offload their liabilites in their holds on ff win,onto the tote,whereas they can't with the place pools. Personally i know everyone i know that bets prefers to back each way. I have met a win punter or two,but the win punters bad days are far higher than the place punters. Sure they win more on a good day,but i have always thought the best way to keep the $ flowing to reinvest is from betting more on the place than the win pools. Thats why i prefer the place pools as well. Its the same with any form of gambling anyway isn't it. pokies,lotto,etc. They all keep their customers reinvesting by returning wins in lesser amounts while keeping them chasing the big win. I also saw a good entain ad on last night in the middle of the film monster ball. It was promoting its hosts and the new free to air channel. That at least made some sense. Edited April 23 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 hours ago, the galah said: I agree brodie and tab should talk,but going by my experience and having spoken to another punter classified as a so called elite punter,it would be a waste of time for him. The people from the tab who liase with the elite customers(their elite team) would do there best to help,but the bean counters with no brains in the other departments would stop anything constructive coming from discussions. Yes they have got the side blinkers on completely for anyone wanting leeway on their betting restrictions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nowornever said: Yes they have got the side blinkers on completely for anyone wanting leeway on their betting restrictions. I've wondered whether the fixed odds bookies get some sort of performance bonus for reaching certain targets of profit. I say that because i can't think of any other reason why they wouldn't see the big picture as relates to including income the tab receives, from customers combined spend on tote and ff. Bookies sort of placing self interest first is my guess.. Edited April 24 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 4 hours ago, the galah said: I've wondered whether the fixed odds bookies get some sort of performance bonus for reaching certain targets of profit. I say that because i can't think of any other reason why they wouldn't see the big picture as relates to including income the tab receives, from customers combined spend on tote and ff. Bookies sort of placing self interest first is my guess.. It is all about yield for the Bookies, rather than turnover! Yes they do have blinkers on and dont look at the big picture! The business plan is very flawed but they dont seem to care as long as they are getting paid! Certain restricted punters arent going to be getter their restrictions loosened anytime soon unless someone knows better? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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