The Anti-Te Akau Thread aka the Anti-Syndicators Thread.

[Huey]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

If they bought two 2.5% shares one in Espionage and one in Imperatriz they'd still be way ahead.  But you are not comparing apples with apples.  Espionage was bought for a Stallion making syndicate.  Now that really is a lottery regardless of the tax breaks.  Imperatriz given her breeding always had residual value as a broodmare.  

Bought as a racehorse first & foremost.

[Newmarket]

So what, one horse wins plenty. Have a look at the hundreds of others high priced buys Ellis has been involved in..  .. if you had taken a small slice of all of them…would have lost heaps. 

[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, Newmarket said:

So what, one horse wins plenty. Have a look at the hundreds of others high priced buys Ellis has been involved in..  .. if you had taken a small slice of all of them…would have lost heaps. 

You haven't read my previous posts and/or don't understand them.  Such is the blindness of bias.

Any Syndicator, like any business, has products they pitch to different market segments.  The informed customer chooses the product that suits their needs and/or aspirations.  So for a start unless you were a fool you wouldn't buy a share in ALL the yearlings available.  You'd buy shares in yearlings that match your budget, your pedigree preferences and your ownership goals.

So for example - a Stallion Making Syndicate (normally the highest priced yearlings) is aimed at a market that can afford the entry costs and who are probably the least risk averser purchaser.  Many if not most have a bloodstock company and are utilising the tax breaks that come with that option.  These customers KNOW that the odds of a yearling colt making a stallion prospect are slim.  But they also know that the rewards when it happens can be very very substantial.

There is the other type of owner who looks to purchase into well bred fillies knowing that at the end of their racing career (whenever that may occur) they have some residual value.  That is the can expect some of their initial purchase price back.  If the filly happens to do very well then they will make a return on that investment.  

Then there is the sophisticated owner who takes a share portfolio approach to buying yearling shares.  They might purchase shares from as little as 2.5% in 5 or more horses.  Some will mix and match the value of those horses e.g. 1 x a high priced well bred colt, 3 x moderately price well bred fillies and another that their partner likes the colour of.  They've spread their risk.  Of those 5 horses only one needs to perform exceptionally to improve the average ownership ROI of -75%. 

I've met a group of owners that have selected very well and have 5% share in 20 horses - i.e. they are effectively owning one horse.  Those owners haven't paid a training bill for a while and look set to get a positive return on their initial investment.  That said they aren't doing it for the investment but for the fun and enjoying winning Group Races.

Now if you haven't ever had black type success then you would be advised to purchase a share in 5 horses with a Syndicator that has a 1 in 5 hit rate of winning black type from a particular sales draft.

 

[Huey]

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

Now if you haven't ever had black type success then you would be advised to purchase a share in 5 horses with a Syndicator that has a 1 in 5 hit rate of winning black type from a particular sales draft.

 

Yes and be prepared to pay handsomely for this so called success!

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Huey said:

Yes and be prepared to pay handsomely for this so called success!

So what would you pay for a Group race success?  

[Huey]

17 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So what would you pay for a Group race success?  

Youre the man with the stats , you tell me?

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, Huey said:

Youre the man with the stats , you tell me?

It's relative to the individuals utility.  What would you spend?

 

[Special Agent]

On 4/23/2024 at 6:16 PM, Huey said:

Yes and be prepared to pay handsomely for this so called success!

I'm finding the comments in this thread interesting.  It's amazing what people will invest in to be involved in perceived success.  What is success?  Levels of success are different for everyone.

As for syndicators we've seen a few come and go.  Te Akau win their share, maybe more than their share.  Some horses from Te Akau race better from other stables too.

I'm not a fan of racing horses in the syndicate set up, sooner race them alone or with family members.  But then I don't live in a mansion, or drive a flash car.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Special Agent said:

Some horses from Te Akau race better from other stables too.

Name one.

[Special Agent]

Weneedashock

Edited April 25 by Special Agent

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Special Agent said:

Weneedashock

Took another 2 years though.

[Special Agent]

I'm not bagging what Te Akau do.  Their results speak volumes.  I'm just saying a change in scene and different training methods work too, as the likes of Kingston Flyer and Richard Stomper show.

[Huey]

On 24/04/2024 at 8:26 PM, Chief Stipe said:

Name one.

There are countless, if that stable will let them go.

[Chief Stipe]

16 minutes ago, Huey said:

There are countless, if that stable will let them go.

Bollocks - name one they won't let go?

The one @Special Agent referred to was sold as a racing proposition with the caveat that it would take time to mature.  The one @Newmarket metioned was probably no longer a racing proposition and I'm guessing @Newmarket knows that.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Bollocks - name one they won't let go?

The one @Special Agent referred to was sold as a racing proposition with the caveat that it would take time to mature.  The one @Newmarket metioned was probably no longer a racing proposition and I'm guessing @Newmarket knows that.

I must have been on my annual holiday to the Sunshine Coast when Conquistador when up for grabs on Gavel, oh wait a minute it was exported to Aus & never raced that must be why, horse probably went on holiday.

Who can ever forget (especially the fan boys) No Limits going up for sale on Gavelhouse, well I don't remember it but look forward to you telling me how it went on the online auction?

 

[Chief Stipe]

49 minutes ago, Huey said:

I must have been on my annual holiday to the Sunshine Coast when Conquistador when up for grabs on Gavel, oh wait a minute it was exported to Aus & never raced that must be why, horse probably went on holiday.

Who can ever forget (especially the fan boys) No Limits going up for sale on Gavelhouse, well I don't remember it but look forward to you telling me how it went on the online auction?

 

What's your point?  Horses are bought and sold all the time. I keep asking you what's YOUR strategy to get a Group winner?

[Huey]

7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

What's your point?  Horses are bought and sold all the time. I keep asking you what's YOUR strategy to get a Group winner?

Haha , you said there was none. 

[Chief Stipe]

12 minutes ago, Huey said:

Haha , you said there was none. 

I said "none" about what?  

[Gammalite]

Well the Te Akau 'LEADERBOARD syndicate' is quite happy anyway.

If you can't win a flat race just stick em' over the fences. Te Akau can do the lot ?😁

today the Old Te Akau horse Leaderboard just won easily at Warrnambool over the hurdles at his 3rd Jumps attempt for Walker and Kuru. nice going at 8-1 odds 👍💰

Bolted away with it too. Te Akau can syndicate a few jumpers now ? excellent stuff.  

[TAB For Ever]

On 4/23/2024 at 10:35 AM, Chief Stipe said:

You haven't read my previous posts and/or don't understand them.  Such is the blindness of bias.

Any Syndicator, like any business, has products they pitch to different market segments.  The informed customer chooses the product that suits their needs and/or aspirations.  So for a start unless you were a fool you wouldn't buy a share in ALL the yearlings available.  You'd buy shares in yearlings that match your budget, your pedigree preferences and your ownership goals.

So for example - a Stallion Making Syndicate (normally the highest priced yearlings) is aimed at a market that can afford the entry costs and who are probably the least risk averser purchaser.  Many if not most have a bloodstock company and are utilising the tax breaks that come with that option.  These customers KNOW that the odds of a yearling colt making a stallion prospect are slim.  But they also know that the rewards when it happens can be very very substantial.

There is the other type of owner who looks to purchase into well bred fillies knowing that at the end of their racing career (whenever that may occur) they have some residual value.  That is the can expect some of their initial purchase price back.  If the filly happens to do very well then they will make a return on that investment.  

Then there is the sophisticated owner who takes a share portfolio approach to buying yearling shares.  They might purchase shares from as little as 2.5% in 5 or more horses.  Some will mix and match the value of those horses e.g. 1 x a high priced well bred colt, 3 x moderately price well bred fillies and another that their partner likes the colour of.  They've spread their risk.  Of those 5 horses only one needs to perform exceptionally to improve the average ownership ROI of -75%. 

I've met a group of owners that have selected very well and have 5% share in 20 horses - i.e. they are effectively owning one horse.  Those owners haven't paid a training bill for a while and look set to get a positive return on their initial investment.  That said they aren't doing it for the investment but for the fun and enjoying winning Group Races.

Now if you haven't ever had black type success then you would be advised to purchase a share in 5 horses with a Syndicator that has a 1 in 5 hit rate of winning black type from a particular sales draft.

 

A good explanation Chief ....well done son !

[TAB For Ever]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

Well the Te Akau 'LEADERBOARD syndicate' is quite happy anyway.

If you can't win a flat race just stick em' over the fences. Te Akau can do the lot ?😁

today the Old Te Akau horse Leaderboard just won easily at Warrnambool over the hurdles at his 3rd Jumps attempt for Walker and Kuru. nice going at 8-1 odds 👍💰

Bolted away with it too. Te Akau can syndicate a few jumpers now ? excellent stuff.  

A slight correction Gamma.....this horse was a Fortuna syndicated horse . So its a bit different.

Fortuna is quite big .it has up to 20 horses under its banner...had up to 8 in Singapore but that easing back cos of pending cease of racing there.

Leaderboard was bought as a lightly tried stayer after a few races in Europe. So bought as a possible 3200m Cups contender . As a gelding it's residual value was seen as a jumper as it was thought it's best distance may be 4 x miles. It won a few races on flat  here once they realised it best on left hand tracks and a wet surface. I think it ran 3rd in NZ Cup [3200m] @ 50/1 when it rained . Later it won the NZ St Leger [2600m] and the Wellington Cup [3200m] when it pissed down !

Fortuna also syndicated and managed champion Melody Belle ...most of it's horses are with Te Akau with a few jumpers with Kevin Myers and at least one horse with Robbie Patterson . Has a couple in Te Akau Cranbourne stable and one at least in UK.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

Well the Te Akau 'LEADERBOARD syndicate' is quite happy anyway.

If you can't win a flat race just stick em' over the fences. Te Akau can do the lot ?😁

today the Old Te Akau horse Leaderboard just won easily at Warrnambool over the hurdles at his 3rd Jumps attempt for Walker and Kuru. nice going at 8-1 odds 👍💰

Bolted away with it too. Te Akau can syndicate a few jumpers now ? excellent stuff.  

Mark Walker doesn't mind training a few jumpers.

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

A slight correction Gamma.....this horse was a Fortuna syndicated horse . So its a bit different.

Fortuna is quite big .it has up to 20 horses under its banner...had up to 8 in Singapore but that easing back cos of pending cease of racing there.

Leaderboard was bought as a lightly tried stayer after a few races in Europe. So bought as a possible 3200m Cups contender . As a gelding it's residual value was seen as a jumper as it was thought it's best distance may be 4 x miles. It won a few races on flat  here once they realised it best on left hand tracks and a wet surface. I think it ran 3rd in NZ Cup [3200m] @ 50/1 when it rained . Later it won the NZ St Leger [2600m] and the Wellington Cup [3200m] when it pissed down !

Fortuna also syndicated and managed champion Melody Belle ...most of it's horses are with Te Akau with a few jumpers with Kevin Myers and at least one horse with Robbie Patterson . Has a couple in Te Akau Cranbourne stable and one at least in UK.

Interesting that the naysayers hammer David Ellis's record but say nothing about John Galvin's.

[TAB For Ever]

12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Mark Walker doesn't mind training a few jumpers.

Too true.....in recent times two of the 'stable changes' ,Beau Geste and Khafeef were when Jamie Richards at the helm !

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, TAB For Ever said:

Too true.....in recent times two of the 'stable changes' ,Beau Geste and Khafeef were when Jamie Richards at the helm !

Yes but Jamie sold a potential jumper in Weneedashock.