Good luck with Tuesdays

[Gammalite]

10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't disagree however I can't see how the current HRNZ policies are doing anything to support participants at ALL levels.  Subsidised sweepstake races don't cut the mustard!

well they do for some. plenty of mustard means plenty of interest. 

I see the picture fine. NZ gallops are even introducing sweepstake races Chief. they are the way of the future. Big players can get big collects. The Everest is Thriving. 

Alas the Race by Grins and the slot Trot have All gone to Aussie owners so far, and the last 5 or so Nz Cups as well. and that trand will continue. (Maybe that's why everyone seems to be against them on the harness forums  lol 😎)

I guess like any business , the management , in this case HRNZ, can only do as they see fit at the time. But why not contribute to the future ? they have too subsidise a bit? 

 

I agree with you , the traditional Harness ''JEWEL in The Crown ' the Interdominion Championships are fading as the Leading Light of harness. i is very sad about this 😪.

NZ participation been small to non-existant past 5 years since the last Auckland one 2019. (It's Too hard on horses these days, 4 runs at the speeds they are going ) I could fix this in an instant though with a minor tweek) 

Sweepstake Racing is Taking Over mate,  as the Plum events. Hey should BOAY buy a slot ? 👍💰

[Slippery Slope]

Gammalite your preference is what HRNZ is delivering. But to try to explain the misguided approach to Alexandra Park vs Cambridge, here are key quotes from the just released HRNZ Utlisation Working Group 2nd report outlining what they want to do at these venues. It proposes:

1. Auckland should offer racing at R40 and above

2. Cambridge.. select fields bottom up R35 and above

3. Cambridge horses... regularly... race at Auckland in "Cambridge rewards" races for higher stakes.

Why this is unfortunately misguided, putting aside all the other commentary about the huge $ cost to the whole industry of subsidising the Auckland venue:

1. Auckland meetings regularly only get off the ground in terms of this class of horse if Cambridge and South Island horse are in attendance- there are otherwise not enough horses trained anywhere near this venue.

2. The Waikato region, which Cambridge is in the heart of, is the biggest and wealthiest horse orientated part of New Zealand- it is not Tasmania! And up until now harness racing because of Cambridge was doing a good job of maintaining cross code interest in our sport, including ownership. Being shunted to Tuesdays and being forced to "select fields bottom up" will quite quickly kill this interest and ownership drop off will follow.  

3. The Cambridge owners and trainers are going to be asked to race for "Cambridge Rewards" races every month, not at their own venue say 1 Friday a month (which could have addressed point 2 above) , but by trucking two hours each way to race at Alexandra Park, at more cost to everyone. I can't even begin to say how nuts it is to treat harness racing's 3rd biggest venue after Addington and Alexandra park this way. It is in the middle of horse racing's biggest and best area nationwide. It is not and never should be compared to Birnie, Devonport or Launceston, but if the above is the plan that is what is likely to happen over time. 

The harness racing industry has much more relative strength in Canterbury and Southland because it is local and interconnected week in week out. Auckland could have been required by HRNZ to ensure Cambridge had the opportunity to keep doing exactly the same, and keep racing those "Cambridge Rewards" events or whatever else it is termed locally at least 1 Friday night a month. It didn't, and that says a lot about how well connected they seem to be to where the bulk of the industry's owners and trainers come from.      

  

 

[Doomed]

37 minutes ago, Slippery Slope said:

Gammalite your preference is what HRNZ is delivering. But to try to explain the misguided approach to Alexandra Park vs Cambridge, here are key quotes from the just released HRNZ Utlisation Working Group 2nd report outlining what they want to do at these venues. It proposes:

1. Auckland should offer racing at R40 and above

2. Cambridge.. select fields bottom up R35 and above

3. Cambridge horses... regularly... race at Auckland in "Cambridge rewards" races for higher stakes.

Why this is unfortunately misguided, putting aside all the other commentary about the huge $ cost to the whole industry of subsidising the Auckland venue:

1. Auckland meetings regularly only get off the ground in terms of this class of horse if Cambridge and South Island horse are in attendance- there are otherwise not enough horses trained anywhere near this venue.

2. The Waikato region, which Cambridge is in the heart of, is the biggest and wealthiest horse orientated part of New Zealand- it is not Tasmania! And up until now harness racing because of Cambridge was doing a good job of maintaining cross code interest in our sport, including ownership. Being shunted to Tuesdays and being forced to "select fields bottom up" will quite quickly kill this interest and ownership drop off will follow.  

3. The Cambridge owners and trainers are going to be asked to race for "Cambridge Rewards" races every month, not at their own venue say 1 Friday a month (which could have addressed point 2 above) , but by trucking two hours each way to race at Alexandra Park, at more cost to everyone. I can't even begin to say how nuts it is to treat harness racing's 3rd biggest venue after Addington and Alexandra park this way. It is in the middle of horse racing's biggest and best area nationwide. It is not and never should be compared to Birnie, Devonport or Launceston, but if the above is the plan that is what is likely to happen over time. 

The harness racing industry has much more relative strength in Canterbury and Southland because it is local and interconnected week in week out. Auckland could have been required by HRNZ to ensure Cambridge had the opportunity to keep doing exactly the same, and keep racing those "Cambridge Rewards" events or whatever else it is termed locally at least 1 Friday night a month. It didn't, and that says a lot about how well connected they seem to be to where the bulk of the industry's owners and trainers come from.      

  

 

Hard to add anything to that really. Just seems like a strange idea, and hard to figure out what it is really designed to achieve.

[Doomed]

55 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

well they do for some. plenty of mustard means plenty of interest. 

I see the picture fine. NZ gallops are even introducing sweepstake races Chief. they are the way of the future. Big players can get big collects. The Everest is Thriving. 

Alas the Race by Grins and the slot Trot have All gone to Aussie owners so far, and the last 5 or so Nz Cups as well. and that trand will continue. (Maybe that's why everyone seems to be against them on the harness forums  lol 😎)

I guess like any business , the management , in this case HRNZ, can only do as they see fit at the time. But why not contribute to the future ? they have too subsidise a bit? 

 

I agree with you , the traditional Harness ''JEWEL in The Crown ' the Interdominion Championships are fading as the Leading Light of harness. i is very sad about this 😪.

NZ participation been small to non-existant past 5 years since the last Auckland one 2019. (It's Too hard on horses these days, 4 runs at the speeds they are going ) I could fix this in an instant though with a minor tweek) 

Sweepstake Racing is Taking Over mate,  as the Plum events. Hey should BOAY buy a slot ? 👍💰

I can't be bothered doing all the maths again, but I did look at the costs verses potential returns when this idea first came out and it seems to me that most of the slot holders lose money every year. Only the first couple of horses actually show a profit. So on that basis I can't really see this type of racing proliferating. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone who isn't a big owner or trainer with a likely contender would buy a slot.

[Chief Stipe]

17 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I can't be bothered doing all the maths again, but I did look at the costs verses potential returns when this idea first came out and it seems to me that most of the slot holders lose money every year. Only the first couple of horses actually show a profit. So on that basis I can't really see this type of racing proliferating. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone who isn't a big owner or trainer with a likely contender would buy a slot.

Exactly.  Let alone what it does to the Pattern.  Only serves to diminish the breed because more often than not the best horses aren't eligible to race (if it is a Sales Sweepstake) or aren't for a slot. 

[Slippery Slope]

21 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Hard to add anything to that really. Just seems like a strange idea, and hard to figure out what it is really designed to achieve.

Keeping Alexandra Park afloat at all costs, even if Cambridge goes under? If I was forced to choose which one reflects the right location and strategic positioning for where the harness racing industry will in reality be in the future it wouldn't be my choice, but that's going to be determined by the industry and where the money comes from. At the very least for now (the next 4 years) if I was HRNZ I'd make sure I had enough competitive tension in this project between the two venues, and key milestones to  measure how it is going. Instead they seem to be simply hanging Cambridge out to dry at a time when Alexandra Park isn't even certain to be a going concern.

As you say, it seems a strange idea, and for HRNZ somewhat divorced from reality during a period when they are spending excess $ vs turnover and betting revenue in the North which they have absolutely no guarantee will still be there 4 years from now.  

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

plenty of mustard means plenty of interest.

Wrong.  You are now disagreeing with yourself.  The evidence is that increasing stakes doesn't have a linear correlation to increasing ownership participation.  That is beyond a certain point Stakes increases at the top end don't encourage increased participation.

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

I see the picture fine. NZ gallops are even introducing sweepstake races Chief. they are the way of the future. Big players can get big collects. The Everest is Thriving. 

So NZ Gallops are followers?  That doesn't mean that it is the correct thing to do for future sustainability expecially if NZTR, like HRNZ, continue to subsidise the sweepstake races rather than insisting that they pay their own way.  That would then mean that both organisations would achieve a net revenue return from the races compared to what appears to be substantial losses.  The Karaka Millions is a Sales Sweepstakes restricted to horses that went through the Karaka Sales.  They are not entirely funded by the Sales Company nor the buyers.  The amount that NZTR subsidise them is not covered by the net revenue from the races.  Both ENTAIN and NZTR lose money on them - most businesses I know like to make a profit.  

So if you see the "picture fine" i.e. the long term big picture.  How do you support a concept that doesn't make a profit?

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

I guess like any business , the management , in this case HRNZ, can only do as they see fit at the time. But why not contribute to the future ? they have too subsidise a bit? 

The Everest may in your opinion be thriving.  I don't agree looking at the big picture.  The best sprinter in the world wasn't there last year and the only way it would have been was if had been sold to a slot holder.  When I say sold I mean a change of ownership.  

So where does the Aussie Battler fit in The Everest?  

It also screws the Pattern which ultimately leads to a lowering of the quality of the breed.  Less and less are the best horses competing against each other on merit.  Long term that cannot be good for the industry.

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

I guess like any business , the management , in this case HRNZ, can only do as they see fit at the time. But why not contribute to the future ? they have too subsidise a bit? 

But is it the future?  Is it sustainable? Does it promote quality racing based on merit?  Does it increase a wider participation in the sport?  In my opinion it fails.  

You are constantly publishing nostalgic excerpts from the past.  How many of those horses were owned and or trained by not very wealthy people?  The 70's and 80's were great eras in harness racing - why?  There were no sweepstake races nor slot races.  What there was was access to all to own or train a horse.  Shouldn't NZTR and HRNZ be working on improving that access rather than subsidising an elite few?

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

I agree with you , the traditional Harness ''JEWEL in The Crown ' the Interdominion Championships are fading as the Leading Light of harness. i is very sad about this 😪.

Why is it fading?  I would contend it is partly to do with this move to Slot and Sweepstake races.  The Everest is a classic example.  Horses are now focussing on that one off BIG reward rather than competing against allcomers in back type races over a longer period of the season.

Will we see one year where the horse of the year in OZ or NZ only won The Everest?  Or only won Slot or restricted entry Sweepstake races?

[Gammalite]

23 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But is it the future?  Is it sustainable? Does it promote quality racing based on merit?  Does it increase a wider participation in the sport?  In my opinion it fails. 

I think you're right in that it Doesn't promote wider participation , and as Nowor Never said earlier it just helps the 'Elite' , to be the winners in these big races. 

But it certainly gets Many of the Best Horses in our great two nations assembled in one place like the Grins Race, Eureka , Everest etc. Which is a great thing for Publicity and a that ? the Everest has 20,000 attend on the day. Not sure how many Cambridge had , but must of been good. 

The racing on Merit , is through the Ceiling High!!!   Merlin , Copy That, Self Assured and Just Believe the 4 winners there so far. the very Best of The Best. 

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why is it fading?  I would contend it is partly to do with this move to Slot and Sweepstake races.  The Everest is a classic example.  Horses are now focussing on that one off BIG reward rather than competing against allcomers in back type races over a longer period of the season

Well Imperatriz put Togeather a series of Great wins starting with the 'Moir ' last season and quite happily by-passed the Everest. she didn't focus on that. but gallopers have Lots of big races to race for and win big prizes as she dominantly proved.

Why is it fading ? you ask .= Because the kiwis aren't Turning Up anymore Chief.  The Interdominion championship was once like the slot races. And Aus v NZ contests were popular and great. thankfully with this new Innovation of Grins race , Trot slot and that , Once Again you guys can see some great compitition with the Aussies turning up for every edition so far !!!!!  and weren't you impressed with Just Believe recently ??? wait to you see Leap To Fame . probably the Lazarus equal , and a total Machine. awesomeness mate. 

Probably a bit rich them Aussies mugging you in the NZ Cup from now on though 😆 , but Mark and Nat have just about hung up the boots , and NOT Scaring off the Aussies invaders anymore?. 

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Doomed said:

Only the first couple of horses actually show a profit. So on that basis I can't really see this type of racing proliferating. I can't for the life of me figure out why someone who isn't a big owner or trainer with a likely contender would buy a slot.

exactly right Doomed . Just like a high stakes High Rollers card game at the casino's . The high rollers move in . Put up a Big stake and a Big Show (some are televised even)  ( the equal of Grins Race, Everest , etc, but get a great field and lots of fun) and only a couple of them Win back a profit.  It's a sport . People have fun . And want to Win if possible. 

just like the punters actually. Most lose . But have fun trying. 

As I indicated several times in this thread , the high Rollers basically pay for it themselves.

and HRNZ can allocate stakes (whatever amount they can afford) to the Cambridge fields Each and Every week . To give the slower horses a regular start  to pay there way as well.

I'm in full support of both concepts .  all is well . (except the Interdominion which needs work)

[Doomed]

57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

Will we see one year where the horse of the year in OZ or NZ only won The Everest?  Or only won Slot or restricted entry Sweepstake races?

That is a worry. I don't think it would happen in Australia as there are still enough people there who value the pattern. It is more likely to happen in NZ where there isn't the same appreciation. In fact it did happen with champion 2yo last year who couldn't win a group one race.

The pattern doesn't really matter in harness racing as they seem to dish out group status totally randomly. I don't think the trots have listed races do they?  Just imagine what races would be listed races in the trots if there was such a thing.

[Gammalite]

3 hours ago, Slippery Slope said:

Gammalite your preference is what HRNZ is delivering. But to try to explain the misguided approach to Alexandra Park vs Cambridge, here are key quotes from the just released HRNZ Utlisation Working Group 2nd report outlining what they want to do at these venues. It proposes:

1. Auckland should offer racing at R40 and above

2. Cambridge.. select fields bottom up R35 and above

3. Cambridge horses... regularly... race at Auckland in "Cambridge rewards" races for higher stakes.

Why this is unfortunately misguided, putting aside all the other commentary about the huge $ cost to the whole industry of subsidising the Auckland venue:

1. Auckland meetings regularly only get off the ground in terms of this class of horse if Cambridge and South Island horse are in attendance- there are otherwise not enough horses trained anywhere near this venue.

2. The Waikato region, which Cambridge is in the heart of, is the biggest and wealthiest horse orientated part of New Zealand- it is not Tasmania! And up until now harness racing because of Cambridge was doing a good job of maintaining cross code interest in our sport, including ownership. Being shunted to Tuesdays and being forced to "select fields bottom up" will quite quickly kill this interest and ownership drop off will follow.  

3. The Cambridge owners and trainers are going to be asked to race for "Cambridge Rewards" races every month, not at their own venue say 1 Friday a month (which could have addressed point 2 above) , but by trucking two hours each way to race at Alexandra Park, at more cost to everyone. I can't even begin to say how nuts it is to treat harness racing's 3rd biggest venue after Addington and Alexandra park this way. It is in the middle of horse racing's biggest and best area nationwide. It is not and never should be compared to Birnie, Devonport or Launceston, but if the above is the plan that is what is likely to happen over time. 

The harness racing industry has much more relative strength in Canterbury and Southland because it is local and interconnected week in week out. Auckland could have been required by HRNZ to ensure Cambridge had the opportunity to keep doing exactly the same, and keep racing those "Cambridge Rewards" events or whatever else it is termed locally at least 1 Friday night a month. It didn't, and that says a lot about how well connected they seem to be to where the bulk of the industry's owners and trainers come from.      

  

 

some excellent points . you are obviously looking for solutions too. 👍

Sounds like the main issue is the Handicapper ? . He needs to co-ordinate the Trainers to be at both places with certain horses. he needs to talk with them and fill the fields appropriately. 

From what you say , you would like Higher Class horses at Cambridge? . I think you might need the few that are left to compete at Auckland though possibly . for the better Metro prizemoney. The better the horse , the more money it deserves to win. You can't have both on the same racecard really. (Fast and Slow horses that is) .

Albion Park Brisbane here, puts the ''slower ones' on every Tuesday including about 4 trots for the squaregaiter enthusiasts. Teenage NZer Riley Butt making a good fist of his trotters so far, racing old Kiwi trotters each Tuesday and winning some. No Lyell Creeks as yet though 😆😂. Redcliffe has the 'really slow'' ones race every Wednesday night and Thursday day.  The city fast  horserace every Saturday night. A surprising amount of mares races actually . the girls really getting a bit of pace up these days lol. 

I applied for QLD Handicapper job 3 years ago , when 500 horses in work needed starts in our region per week. I applied (and failed) this year again too, the horse number has slipped below 450 now and decreasing. There are No New Players. this number probably down to 400 horses, in 2 more years time at a guess. Times are tough. 

This is stunningly obvious in NZ at present. The cost of living a major culprit. Also what Chief is saying about 'Business Profit 'importance. Mostly the horses near run at a loss. The costs are high and just the retired and wealthy are the huge majority of owners these days.  

Barry Purdon and Scott Phelan having a wonderful time past 2 years with QLDer Dean Shannon having 17 horses on their books including the best in country MERLIN.  even with Merlin Dean is probably still running at near a loss with so many horses. adds up quickly quickly.😁

 

Edited August 12 by Gammalite

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

The better the horse , the more money it deserves to win. You can't have both on the same racecard really. (Fast and Slow horses that is) .

Uh?  For sure the better the horse the better the stake - as long as it as proven it IS the better horse.  Of course you can have elite and slow pokes on the same card (not in the same race).  Gallops do it all the time.

That's the BS about classifying mid-week vs premier meetings and assigning stakes based on the classification.  Due to the declining horse numbers you get as many slow horses on a premier day as you do mid-week!  Meanwhile the mid-week slow pokes are subsidising the premier slow pokes.  Go figure!

[Gammalite]

7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Uh?  For sure the better the horse the better the stake - as long as it as proven it IS the better horse.  Of course you can have elite and slow pokes on the same card (not in the same race).  Gallops do it all the time.

That's the BS about classifying mid-week vs premier meetings and assigning stakes based on the classification.  Due to the declining horse numbers you get as many slow horses on a premier day as you do mid-week!  Meanwhile the mid-week slow pokes are subsidising the premier slow pokes.  Go figure!

Fair enough Chief . I guess you could. I think I'm used to Melton Vic,  Menangle NSW, and Albion QLD for years and years just having city class FAST performers each week on Friday and Saturday nights racing ,

Just can't get my head around maidens /slower than 1.57 horses,  running at Alexandra Park 🤣🫣. doesn't seem right ??. You Really are Desparate for horses to race. 

They have worked out beautifully here in Brisbane to give everyone (owner and horse) a chance.

e.g

horses that can only run 1.59- 2.00 min s run on Thursdays Redcliffe for the whole racecard

the 1.57 to 1.59 capable ones run on the Wednesday night there.

the 1.55 to 1.57 mile capable ones run Tuesdays Albion. example = Old SMITHY"S TERROR who had one win from 20 in NZ last year for Dunns (but still got 3rd placing in the Auckland Cup showing Just how Weak your FFA grade has become) . he is winning twice recent weeks in 1.53 odd . So put in mid week grade he can find the winners circle once again as a bit quicker than those rivals (But he GETS Less Prizemoney than Sat but IS getting some) ! . an important thing. he'd get zero Sat night. 

The Metro horses are generally 1.51 to 1.54  mile capable on Saturday nights. FFA class broke 1.50 last Saturday night.  1.49.8 . Just f...ken ridiculous fast 🙄.  Old Kiwi TURN IT UP finished 3rd in that,  still capable of getting his old legs around in a 1.50 rate  . what a trooper !!! great old horse. 

so every horse gets a chance to win a race every week. 

so just seems normal to me the BETTER horse gets the Greater prizemoney 😆 at what you call premier meetings Friday nights... so by BETTER , I mean proven to be FASTER , which isn't hard to do Chief. One race start will tell you generally. 

I like to bet on fast horses. Faster the better lol 😆. don't want to see slow pokes crawling around at your premier night meetings. Not even Brodie would be enjoying that lol ? 🤣

[Brodie]

4 hours ago, Gammalite said:

exactly right Doomed . Just like a high stakes High Rollers card game at the casino's . The high rollers move in . Put up a Big stake and a Big Show (some are televised even)  ( the equal of Grins Race, Everest , etc, but get a great field and lots of fun) and only a couple of them Win back a profit.  It's a sport . People have fun . And want to Win if possible. 

just like the punters actually. Most lose . But have fun trying. 

As I indicated several times in this thread , the high Rollers basically pay for it themselves.

and HRNZ can allocate stakes (whatever amount they can afford) to the Cambridge fields Each and Every week . To give the slower horses a regular start  to pay there way as well.

I'm in full support of both concepts .  all is well . (except the Interdominion which needs work)

No the high rollers are nit  basically paying for the Slot races now in harness!

The Dickheads decided to chuck hundred if thousands into the pot unnecessarily!

I firmly believe that harness racing is in serious trouble in the future with many of the decisions that are bring made.

They fly someone  over from Oz at  expense to promote how great Etain  are and how rosey  the future is with all this extra dollars in stakes going in!

Unfortunately it is going to take a lot more than increased stakes for four years when Entain then pull their $!
Do they really believe that is enough to entice owners to shell out $3,000 per month to race a horse?

 

 

 

[Doomed]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Do they really believe that is enough to entice owners to shell out $3,000 per month to race a horse?

 

 

 

I can recall a few years ago when there used to be Sunday papers seeing a syndicator up north charging about $50,000 to train a horse for a year. I don't know if they still advertise, but I wonder if they promote the fact they can run in an $8,000 race every Tuesday.

[Brodie]

Just had a look at the fixed odds for the Cambridge meeting!

As a meeting to bet into, what an absolute waste of time!

Place Odds are just not worth any effort with the pathetically small fields.

This Tuesday Cambridge idea is going to be a massive failure.😞 

[Slippery Slope]

Wouldn't it be refreshing if HRNZ explained why, given how we are depending on them to maximise turnover with their handicapping and field size policies, they chose to split fields and gave us 7 races with an average field size of 6.6. One less race would have given us 7 and 8 horse fields throughout, not great but the bare minimum surely. 

[Gammalite]

10 hours ago, Slippery Slope said:

Wouldn't it be refreshing if HRNZ explained why, given how we are depending on them to maximise turnover with their handicapping and field size policies, they chose to split fields and gave us 7 races with an average field size of 6.6. One less race would have given us 7 and 8 horse fields throughout, not great but the bare minimum surely. 

Yes it seems I have to relent and finally come to terms with North Island trotting' has 'had It'.

that Race card today perhaps the smallest ever assembled in NZ.

A lot of the Trainers still going along today are so old , they are near the finish line themselves. (Retirement that is 😁) like Ray Green, Sean McCaffrey, Dave McGowan, Rogerson, the good Dr and others. Mike Berger they are missing already . just retired.

Good to see Benjamin Butcher training some runners. Think Zac will have to do more too. Philip would of been a good trainer but went off sulking instead. David B is a bit long in the tooth too , like Mitchell and P Ferguson and McKendry who all don't seem to be training many runners at all these days. James Stormont just doing Rogerson's now? 

Nicky Chilcott and Arna Donnelly should be having larger stables and running more horses (after the success with Sacred Mountain , Kango and that) yet don't seem to have many runners ??

Matty White is  a good driver. Start training Some more Matty!! ( and Zac!! ) or there will be NO races for you to drive in soon , and you'll have to shift to the South Island . Too cold there 😎.

 

Ra 

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Yes it seems I have to relent and finally come to terms with North Island trotting' has 'had It'.

that Race card today perhaps the smallest ever assembled in NZ.

A lot of the Trainers still going along today are so old , they are near the finish line themselves. (Retirement that is 😁) like Ray Green, Sean McCaffrey, Dave McGowan, Rogerson, the good Dr and others. Mike Berger they are missing already . just retired.

Good to see Benjamin Butcher training some runners. Think Zac will have to do more too. Philip would of been a good trainer but went off sulking instead. David B is a bit long in the tooth too , like Mitchell and P Ferguson and McKendry who all don't seem to be training many runners at all these days. James Stormont just doing Rogerson's now? 

Nicky Chilcott and Arna Donnelly should be having larger stables and running more horses (after the success with Sacred Mountain , Kango and that) yet don't seem to have many runners ??

Matty White is  a good driver. Start training Some more Matty!! ( and Zac!! ) or there will be NO races for you to drive in soon , and you'll have to shift to the South Island . Too cold there 😎.

 

Ra 

So what needs to be done to turn it around?

Three areas in my opinion:

1.  Improve access to the product;

2.  Fix the handicapping;

3.  Improve low end stakes by redistributing the top end downwards.

HRNZ - you only have three tasks.

[Slippery Slope]

12 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Yes it seems I have to relent and finally come to terms with North Island trotting' has 'had It'.

that Race card today perhaps the smallest ever assembled in NZ.

A lot of the Trainers still going along today are so old , they are near the finish line themselves. (Retirement that is 😁) like Ray Green, Sean McCaffrey, Dave McGowan, Rogerson, the good Dr and others. Mike Berger they are missing already . just retired.

Good to see Benjamin Butcher training some runners. Think Zac will have to do more too. Philip would of been a good trainer but went off sulking instead. David B is a bit long in the tooth too , like Mitchell and P Ferguson and McKendry who all don't seem to be training many runners at all these days. James Stormont just doing Rogerson's now? 

Nicky Chilcott and Arna Donnelly should be having larger stables and running more horses (after the success with Sacred Mountain , Kango and that) yet don't seem to have many runners ??

Matty White is  a good driver. Start training Some more Matty!! ( and Zac!! ) or there will be NO races for you to drive in soon , and you'll have to shift to the South Island . Too cold there 😎.

 

Ra 

And in addition to Chief Stipe, linked to 1. measure progress and performance as we go, so we don't keep throwing $ millions of money to where it generates the least return for the spend. 

[Nowornever]

44 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So what needs to be done to turn it around?

Three areas in my opinion:

1.  Improve access to the product;

2.  Fix the handicapping;

3.  Improve low end stakes by redistributing the top end downwards.

HRNZ - you only have three tasks.

The last two are what will fix harness racing in my opinion.

Also put a tax on all horses sold overseas (eg $5K) and put the money back into lower stakes. Try to retain horses here for longer. 

FFS going on the article on HRNZ today about the Tuesday meetings they are quite happy about the numbers. 

"We had planned for six races over the first six weeks and to get the numbers we have is very encouraging," says HRNZ Chief Executive Officer Brad Steele.

 

[Slippery Slope]

Here's a novel idea. If you refer to my analysis of yesterday, you'll see that for a virtually equivalent number of races 224 vs 244, for the year ended 31 July Alexandra Park needed approximately $6,800 more in stakes subsidy per race from HRNZ than Cambridge to run each of those races, despite its better race dates (Friday nights). Of course part of that extra would have been group race subsidies, but I eliminated the 3 biggest / most costliest race days across both venues to be as like for like as possible in that analysis But for comparison purposes let's allow Alexandra Park to keep $1800 of that $6800 per race excess subsidy ($400k + p.a.) for the rest of the group races costs but then to even up the return for owners racing at both venues we rebalance the remaining $5000 50/50 and so Cambridge races for $2,500 more- $10,500 every race, and average Alexandra Park races for $2,500 less c.$14,500. Note that this distribution becomes very very similar to the Addington stakes vs the rest of Canterbury venues like Methven and Motukarara Friday/Sunday balance that has worked well there for years.

Do this and then ask whether you have to do any of the other stuff on Cambridge R35 bottom up/ Auckland R40 minimum etc the Utilisation Working Group are coming up with to deal with the enforced Cambridge/ Alexandra Park stakes disparity HRNZ set up from 1 August.

If Entain forces Cambridge to keep racing on Tuesdays and Alexandra Park won't let them have any Friday nights for their "Cambridge Rewards" events then so be it. But at least with the above you've:

1.Given Cambridge, relative to Alexandra Park at least, AND ALL THE WAIKATO OWNERS AND TRAINERS, a fair share of the stakes subsidy pool. Then HRNZ don't have to keep asking that group to "take one for the team" in terms of the reduction in their access locally to a fair stake level and having to now incur the cost (Going to Alexandra Park!) to anything more than $8k. 

2.Required Alexandra Park to operate more closely to the betting revenue that their turnover generates. Thus they can be much more accurately and fairly judged on how attractive and financially sustainable they really are relative to the the bulk of owners at stake levels that are closer to those that we will have to live with in 4 years, rather than just the top 5 or 10% chasing Group status races.

3. Got a similar comparison of performance of Auckland / Cambridge to Addington/Canterbury country to work on over the long term.

4. Hopefully removed a key barrier to enabling Cambridge to get back on Fridays on a structured basis (just once a month please!), and maybe even for both venues to work to putting up a decent product to bet on relative to Addington at least on every Friday. 

Thoughts?  

  

[Slippery Slope]

One other big picture observation and question.

Harness racing is already not New Zealand wide, and unfortunately amongst the numerous reasons that this has happened is that in the 2 main centres that now no longer have harness racing (Wellington and Dunedin) the product that was offered simply wasn't attractive enough for punters and owners (the venues weren't either).

Cambridge is a top venue for harness racing on and off course.

Unlike Wellington and Dunedin (and CBD Auckland) it is in the centre of the equine industry in this country. 

The explosion in choice for Australasian punters in 2025 with gaming and sports betting as well as wall to wall racing compared to just 10 years ago necessitates harness racing delivering a quality competitive product. 

Harness Racing New Zealand are consciously and deliberately putting a product offer at Cambridge that looks likely (apart from 1 month in the year) to be worse than the offer that was at Hutt Park and Forbury Park and they have gone forever.

Regular selling of a poor product on the worst day of the week to sell it (apart maybe from Mondays) will do what to the reputation and attractiveness of that product at that venue over the long term, for both wagering and ownership?