How was your Auckland Cup / Rowe Cup Night?

[Walt]

I watched both races last night. They were both good races to my eye but is "good" enough? 

I had breakfast this morning with clan who have won the NZ Cup multiple times, the Auckland Cup, The Rowe Cup and the Dominion.

Something was missing for all of us. "The Buzz" .....that buzz we are still feeling the next day and what so many of us crave. It carries us through to the next big buzz. 

Auckland Cup and Rowe Cup are iconic showpieces........but

[Gammalite]

15 minutes ago, Walt said:

Something was missing for all of us. "The Buzz" .....that buzz we are still feeling the next day and what so many of us crave.

The Aussies won Both them Walt 👍😎. NZ has Never got BUZZ 🐝 out of the Aussies winning at any sport as far as I have seen 😁.

Mark Purdon 3rd in all 3 of the Group 1's was a bit deflating as well ?. You mentioned recently he has lost a length or 2 on the others now. Because we are So Used to Him Winning them 😉 . and his stable has an extraordinary amount of 2nds in the past year too? . (along with that slap in the face by Swayzee in the NZ Cup as well)

On a REAL POSITIVE though, The Group 1 Trotters Derby was quite good though ? I got a Buzz out of the Herlihy stable winning it over the Powerful Phil Williamson and Allstars barns. A Fantastic drive by the nights unsung Hero Tony Cameron too. 

 There was comment somewhere about No northerners in the Rowe Cup , so is great to see these potential ones coming through like InaSingleMoment   . TonyH is a fabulous trainer of trotters and great to see him WIn the Derby. esp after the hard 'Bolt'  times 

the injuries with 'Bolt' curtailing him was a tragedy. Exactly 2 years ago he (Bolt for Brilliance)  trotted a super quick 4.01 2 miles, beating the DUNN champ Sundee's Son by 6 lengths into 3rd in the Rowe Cup. (funfact: Tony Cameron was 2nd in that Rowe Cup driving warhorse Temporale for the Hacketts and beat Sundee home too ! what a warrior he was )   so I guess you are right Walt my friend . Just Believe  🇦🇺 winning at short odds last night a wee bit 'Less-Buzzy' than that 🙄. 

 

[Walt]

16 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

The Aussies won Both them Walt 👍😎. NZ has Never got BUZZ 🐝 out of the Aussies winning at any sport as far as I have seen 😁.

Mark Purdon 3rd in all 3 of the Group 1's was a bit deflating as well ?. You mentioned recently he has lost a length or 2 on the others now. Because we are So Used to Him Winning them 😉 . and his stable has an extraordinary amount of 2nds in the past year too? . (along with that slap in the face by Swayzee in the NZ Cup as well)

On a REAL POSITIVE though, The Group 1 Trotters Derby was quite good though ? I got a Buzz out of the Herlihy stable winning it over the Powerful Phil Williamson and Allstars barns. A Fantastic drive by the nights unsung Hero Tony Cameron too. 

 There was comment somewhere about No northerners in the Rowe Cup , so is great to see these potential ones coming through like InaSingleMoment   . TonyH is a fabulous trainer of trotters and great to see him WIn the Derby. esp after the hard 'Bolt'  times 

the injuries with 'Bolt' curtailing him was a tragedy. Exactly 2 years ago he (Bolt for Brilliance)  trotted a super quick 4.01 2 miles, beating the DUNN champ Sundee's Son by 6 lengths into 3rd in the Rowe Cup. (funfact: Tony Cameron was 2nd in that Rowe Cup driving warhorse Temporale for the Hacketts and beat Sundee home too ! what a warrior he was )   so I guess you are right Walt my friend . Just Believe  🇦🇺 winning at short odds last night a wee bit 'Less-Buzzy' than that 🙄. 

 

Bloody Aussies   

Not sure there is any dirty feelings about you bastards winning our big races anymore Gamma. Better Eclipse deserved the win last night and Just Believe is obviously a special trotter. Does anyone care where they come from anymore?  

Did Just Believe even need to get serious to win the Rowe Cup? 

WTF is all the "Candyman" bollocks about. Sadly Aaron went into overdrive with his "Chief", "The Iceman" "The Magic Man" "The Wizard"....give it a rest FFS. It adds absolutely nothing. 

Has Aaron heard the name Dean Arnold Coril?  

Dean Arnold Corll was an American serial killer and sex offender who abducted, raped, tortured, and murdered a minimum of twenty-eight teenage boys and young men between 1970 and 1973 in Houston and Pasadena, Texas. Regarded as one of the country's most prolific serial killers who had the nickname "The Candyman"

 

As for Tony Cameron. I was stoked to see him get over the top of them with Inasinglemoment. Tony has improved so much under the wing of AGH. 

The buzz I talk about missing Gamma likely relates to the timing of the Auckland Cup. It just feels wrong. The New Years Eve timing meant we got horses coming off the back of the NZ Cup rather than five months later when many are either injured or tired or in the spelling paddock. Most of that field last night will likely go out for a well earned break now. I hope they revisit the timing.

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Walt said:

Does anyone care where they come from anymore?  

Did Just Believe even need to get serious to win the Rowe Cup?

Of course People care where they come from Walt . absolutely. 

This very site (forum) generates every second thread about where they come from virtually. I started a Woodend thread Thursday just because impressed of what is happening there at the moment. The very previous thread to this one I think. 

Any Auckland or North Island Trainer/races has generated enough flak here to sink the Bismarck and the Titanic togeather. I have fought hard to maintain the image and tradition of North Island racing here for a long time .(because I know a lot of the competitors and like them)  Brodie has given it the both barrels for years. He cares where they come from. Seems not impressed with the Standardbred Breeders stakes now either, by the look of it with Boudicia winning 😂 . Connections of the horse will be happy though which is nice. 💰🏆. 

Glad you Not disappointed with the Aussie victories though Walt. Personally I was bitterly disappointed with Aussie Swayzee winning at Addington NZ Cup  , and  what happens with horses at Grimsons . The ones that come from there sure get a boost for a while . I will be posing a question to the Galah,  about some of the NZ mares being sent to his close associate kiwi Jack Trainor at some stage so watch out for that one. Where they (winning horses) come from is a great topic of discussion over the years . Allstars and TeAkau have copped 'plenty' , as has Emma Stewart in recent times here and elsewhere. support and criticism. People do care where they come to answer your question.

Your second Question?. Well Just Believe has clean swept heats and Final the past 2 Interdominion Championships  (beating Bolt for Brilliance once too)  , so that speaks volumes of his ability. He did have to get serious , and zip around to the lead early on from the back  . But MARK Purdon , being near best trainer Driver on the planet , recognized immediately , he was always racing for 2nd in the Rowe Cup . so trailed him and ran 2nd. All you can do sometimes. Trotters aplenty had to do that against Sundee's Son recently as well.   

[TAB For Ever]

The Buzz Bars got eaten up by the Candyman !

Aussies been winning a lot of our cash in recent years.......Merv Butterworth [Copy That] ,June Feiss [Self Assured and others] .Montana , Boots etc and now this ,2 x biggies in 40 minutes !

[Gammalite]

16 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

The Buzz Bars got eaten up by the Candyman !

Aussies been winning a lot of our cash in recent years.......Merv Butterworth [Copy That] ,June Feiss [Self Assured and others] .Montana , Boots etc and now this ,2 x biggies in 40 minutes !

hahaha Like a Tassie island playground. thinking Nz would do well as the 8th state?. the Montana ,Entain man could build a few resorts here and there (possibly on all the closing race-courses ) and then everyone have a good fun time.   

[TAB For Ever]

18 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

hahaha Like a Tassie island playground. thinking Nz would do well as the 8th state?. the Montana ,Entain man could build a few resorts here and there (possibly on all the closing race-courses ) and then everyone have a good fun time.   

Dean Entain could build anything ,he got plenty of assistance...Merlin [Magician] , a Cold Chisel[Derby] and Grease[ YourtheonethatIwant, Sandra Dee, Igotchills ] plus a share in Conderate and Jeremiah plus several much sought after lots from latest yearling sales !

Other Aussie owned  winners of late include Demon Blue and All Cashed Up [Yabby Farms].

Bettor Eclipse in two sustained preps in NZ had suffered a lot of bad draws and little luck ,I have the tickets to prove it, but it still a mystery to me how he ended up as TOTE favourite in Auckland  Cup from the stand start.

[the galah]

7 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Bettor Eclipse in two sustained preps in NZ had suffered a lot of bad draws and little luck ,I have the tickets to prove it, but it still a mystery to me how he ended up as TOTE favourite in Auckland  Cup from the stand start.

my guess would be the race got a reasonable couple of minute lead in time in australia,and given the nz part of our pool is not much,the australian parts that were commingled mostly went onto better eclipse, as you would expect. He was favorite on the tabcorp pool as well that had $7000 in it.

[TAB For Ever]

Gamma ...you dead right that us KIWIS across the board just don't get a BUZZ when the Aussies beat us particularly on our home soil.

In harness there seems to be TWO major ways to get a BUZZ from horse racing....the first is watching high class horses up and personal[ie live] particularly when racing in Group 1 and iconic races.

The other is in punting and enjoying a good win.

Recently I dined with a successful breeder/owner and he confirmed the above. He told me about his biggest bet on one of his horses , a 'hot' favourite. He wagered $100k to win on it and it won but the extreme buzz he got from that is not something he likely the emulate...it was too much !

Great to see in recent weeks some horses winning big races that were bred and still raced by the breeder ! It often claimed there is no room for the small breeder !

The Trot Derby was a great result for the Herlihy clan......the winner owned by Tony's wife and a share given to a young lass who was a committed and loyal strapper/employee.And driven by loyal employee Tony Cameron. Great to see. And the horse came from last to win.

Many claim and point out the fact that many races up North dominated by lead/trail horses.

Last night several of the winners settled well back early on !

[the galah]

tony camerons winning was also the highlight for me.. The post race trackside interview and coverage captured the occasion well.Just had a feel good vibe to it.

It would have been interesting to see whether mach shard would have won Must have gone close as it was going easy at the time.can't win them all i suppose.

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

The Trot Derby was a great result for the Herlihy clan......the winner owned by Tony's wife and a share given to a young lass who was a committed and loyal strapper/employee.And driven by loyal employee Tony Cameron. Great to see. And the horse came from last to win.

that is great . A lovely family . Suzanne has shares in most as part of their training arrangement. The Herlihy's have roped in as many people they can muster into shares in lots of horses (including long lost son's at times) and are doing their best to keep the numbers up in the North to keep the game alive there. Big Dean doing well at her brother Barry's too. 

Yes some love a big punt to get their thrill/buzz (brodie an exponent of that at BOAY lol) Think he would like to be KerryPacker the 2nd and get a million on in one bet if could 🤣) my biggest ever was $1000. only because couldn't get beaten. did that twice on same horse on 2 occasions on a 2-1 on shot I was driving Moonee Valley. led all way both times so collect 500. seemed alright at the time .I certainly wouldn't risk punting like some do when you're just hoping they can win or were odds they couldn't resist. Have to be near over the line before i'm interested lol.😂

Yeah good to see them come from all over the shop to win at Alexandra Park too. Track plays alright if you ask me. quite high standards and maintenance I imagine by trackstaff.    

[Gammalite]

3 hours ago, the galah said:

It would have been interesting to see whether mach shard would have won Must have gone close as it was going easy at the time.can't win them all i suppose.

You and I know old friend. they nearly ALL need hopples. Crystal got a suspension for that as hit Mark Purdon wheel while easing out at the quarter mile.

You need hopples for balance at the best of times and you run the risk of that fierce gallop without them if you get a slight check. 

Also a Junior driver in a Group 1 isn't the best idea??. on a free-legged horse. sure fire Recipe for something to go wrong . 

Crystal Hackett is doing ok, and making good progress as a driver.  and did indeed get the horse home at odds in the Messenger .Bit of a fluke though.  SO I would still think Tony Herlihy MNZM or MauriceM MNZM or usual Purdon stable driver Zac Butcher  would be a better option's , since they were ALL sitting on the sidelines. you need the Best out there in the Best races. 

Sounds harsh , but it's a Very high pressure 2 Mile race , and it's easy to make a mistake like Crystal did , with the in-experience and massive nerves of the occasion. 

[Spatchcock]

Was quite a lot of people on course. However the ATC have created a major parking problem for themselves by selling off the old stand which has taken away the parking next to the home straight.
It was anarchy in the parking lot, even before Race 1, and everyone was being made to park over the back of the track in the dark and rain. Not feasible for the older or disabled or well-dressed. 

[TAB For Ever]

1 hour ago, Spatchcock said:

Was quite a lot of people on course. However the ATC have created a major parking problem for themselves by selling off the old stand which has taken away the parking next to the home straight.
It was anarchy in the parking lot, even before Race 1, and everyone was being made to park over the back of the track in the dark and rain. Not feasible for the older or disabled or well-dressed. 

Yes ,parking now an issuer on the better nights racing when more people turn up.

To be fair ,a note went out advising cars would need to go to the area behind the back straight to park. And there was talk of a parking building being built but that would mean more money needed. And with construction starting ,the area taken out because of it was probably a lot bigger than it could have been , in view of it being Cup night etc and more people wanting to turn up. And tho the Rowe Cup always been in May ,the actual Cup now not on a date the Club wants.

 

 

[TAB For Ever]

18 hours ago, the galah said:

my guess would be the race got a reasonable couple of minute lead in time in australia,and given the nz part of our pool is not much,the australian parts that were commingled mostly went onto better eclipse, as you would expect. He was favorite on the tabcorp pool as well that had $7000 in it.

Thanks for explaining this ........which leads on to other thoughts...

Like the importance/influence of Australian betting into our races...a significant influence.

Does this mean that the success of the Sunday betting into Harness is in fact the main reason these numbers so impressive ,I have always thought that the $10k guaranteed pool for First 4's on a Sunday for example were there as an invite for Australians to bet.

Maybe it not the often explained reason that grass roots NZ punters like the big fields of slow horses predominantly racing on grass tracks to bet on.

Of course this goes against the other known fact re NZTAB betting that the top  'elite' 2% bet  up to 60% of the pool and the top 10% do over 80% of the turnover !

I've never understood how a serious big punter could 'unload' on the big fields of plodders ! 

And more and more decisions likely to be to suit the Aussie market eg Start times , gap between races etc etc.

It all starting to add up !

[Brodie]

9 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Thanks for explaining this ........which leads on to other thoughts...

Like the importance/influence of Australian betting into our races...a significant influence.

Does this mean that the success of the Sunday betting into Harness is in fact the main reason these numbers so impressive ,I have always thought that the $10k guaranteed pool for First 4's on a Sunday for example were there as an invite for Australians to bet.

Maybe it not the often explained reason that grass roots NZ punters like the big fields of slow horses predominantly racing on grass tracks to bet on.

Of course this goes against the other known fact re NZTAB betting that the top  'elite' 2% bet  up to 60% of the pool and the top 10% do over 80% of the turnover !

I've never understood how a serious big punter could 'unload' on the big fields of plodders ! 

And more and more decisions likely to be to suit the Aussie market eg Start times , gap between races etc etc.

It all starting to add up !

If your facts are true TAB, imagine how much more turnover could be achieved if the TAB actually allowed Punters to wager rather than restricting them?

Maybe you could have a word in the ear of Dean Shannon if Entain want more TAB turnover?

Restrictions must be costing the industry mega millions every year, but then again they arent showing that they have things under control!

 

[TAB For Ever]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

If your facts are true TAB, imagine how much more turnover could be achieved if the TAB actually allowed Punters to wager rather than restricting them?

Maybe you could have a word in the ear of Dean Shannon if Entain want more TAB turnover?

Restrictions must be costing the industry mega millions every year, but then again they arent showing that they have things under control!

 

Dean wants profitable turnover Brodie.

Me ,my father and grand father been betting for many decades and never been unable to get a bet on .

Bet on the tote....100% on !

I quite OK with the TAB , and it sure to get better !

If you want to talk to Dean or Cam contact them direct. They very approachable !

And I repeat......bet on the tote !

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

Dean wants profitable turnover Brodie.

Me ,my father and grand father been betting for many decades and never been unable to get a bet on .

Bet on the tote....100% on !

I quite OK with the TAB , and it sure to get better !

If you want to talk to Dean or Cam contact them direct. They very approachable !

And I repeat......bet on the tote !

Are you Serious TAB?

when you have a tote pool of $2 to 4k,  you think it would be worthwhile for a punter to put another 1k or more into it? 😂 

And talking to Dean Shanon or this Cam is going to have the TAB treating all punters equally?

At the end of the day they imposed the restrictions and have maintained the pathetic amounts for years!

While they are there , I will continue to point out the error of their ways!!,

 

 

[Rangatira]

On 25/05/2024 at 1:40 PM, Walt said:

WTF is all the "Candyman" bollocks about. Sadly Aaron went into overdrive with his "Chief", "The Iceman" "The Magic Man" "The Wizard"....give it a rest FFS. It adds absolutely nothing. 

The Mac Attack takes out the third tonight with Pantani

[Gammalite]

31 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

The Mac Attack takes out the third tonight with Pantani

The Poo-man takes the 4th race 😆, after the Ice-man took out the 2nd race.

What are we gunna give Zac Butcher ? he's a senior driver and needs an Avatar? 

Does he have one already?

Good to see old ''Jolly Roger'' (the thoroughbred pirate) training the first race winner too, without 'Fergie' hanging around.

 

[Rangatira]

37 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

What are we gunna give ...........

Aarons gig 

We just admire his talent

[Gammalite]

23 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

Aarons gig 

We just admire his talent

should be able to pluck something out of this to help Aaron with getting 'Zac' on his Hit list ? 

probably 'Sky Major' was his stepping stone by the look of this Greg interview , so he could be the ''Major'. always a major player anyway 😁  

 

Edited June 27 by Gammalite

[Gammalite]

What a great kiwi harness man Greg is . never been a more polite fellow ever at the track.  and knowledgeable to the extreme. 

And Zachary did a great job with that one-on-one (and his race driving too)

The 2 horses he has photos of are still racing in Oz !!!!! 

Zeuss Bromac , was Zac's first winner as a trainer in NZ (has been now 5 years over in NSW)  hadn't won for a year ,  but won his last start here in April at Newcastle.

Lord Zarias, raced by Zac', and his nan won 6 there for him, and plowed around Albion Park here in Brissy for 15 starts last year (for 3 wins) and now these days the slow tracks of South Australia are his home this year , where he also won his last start in April, a listed $30k classic. 

2 horses that always tried/try hard. great job working with them Zac !! (he seriously should train some more ? )