the galah Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 (edited) i see peter profit has a written a story today that the inside mail he's been given is the chinese property developer won't be paying the $90 million expected on time,in november. Sometimes his inside mail turns out to be wrong and i'm not a subscriber and only read his headlines,but the headline was" is the auckland trotting club stepping closer to the abyss." mick guerin wrote an article last month saying the ATC was paying $115,000 a week just in interest,so every month they wait they have about a half a million $ less to spend on their new training establishment. It already seems obvious the only way they will get a new training establishment is if HRNZ provide the extra funds. So,while who knows if peter profits information will turn put to be correct,but if he is.. Well,given HRNZ is currently throwing money at upper north island racing,is it not a given that if there is a delay in payment to the aucklnad club, it will be a given that even more funds will have to be diverted from south island clubs,owners,breeders,trainers,drivers. why is it they always say its a chinese property developer. Do they not file returns. The company that proceses the money,mount hope limited seems to be nz run with nz shareholders. The whole thing from the lack of media interest as to exactly who and how well funded the purchasers are,HRNZ's plans or lack thereof as relates to the ATC,the lack of transparency and leadership around how auckland issues will impact drag on the whole sports future,or morte precisely lack thereof. Lets hope peter profits inside mail is wrong as for anyone in the south island ,HRNZ has already seemingly attached itself,and every stakeholder in nz with them, to a sinking ship which may be going down a lot quicker than everyone thinks. Edited August 28 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 51 minutes ago, the galah said: mick guerin wrote an article last month saying the ATC was paying $115,000 a week just in interest,so every month they wait they have about a half a million $ less to spend on their new training establishment. It already seems obvious the only way they will get a new training establishment is if HRNZ provide the extra funds. You would hope there is some adequate compensation clause in the sale agreement to account for settlement delays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 28 Author Share Posted August 28 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rangatira said: You would hope there is some adequate compensation clause in the sale agreement to account for settlement delays. Maybe. But you could also think that the ATC would have made a statement to that effect earlier so as to allay fears. Aren't penalty clauses a bit of a grey area. A prominent nz barrister specialising in commercial contracts on his website says''In general a clause that can be classified as a penalty is regarded as being unenforceable. Conversly a clause that represents a genuine liquidated damages clause is enforceable". Apparently it may come down to whether the contract provided a genuine pre estimate on the happening of a certain event or breach. if it did it may become enforceable. i'm no expert in commercial law but i suppose it depends on the type of agreement and whats in it. Its obviously a different kettle of fish than the original disastrous development. Didn't the ATC have sunset clauses for the apartments and could have saved themselves millions and millions but chose not to enforce them when the delays in construction happened,with people who had pre bought apartments off them.. Didn't they say it was the ATC'S leadership at the time who knowingly contributed to the financial ruin of the atc when there was a way to reduce the catastrophe. Thats what the only investigative journalist in the north,the lincoln farms man i think wrote one time. Anyway, "The interest rates have been brutal and are really cutting into how much money we will be left with." a quote from jamie mackinnon in last months guerin article. No mention of compensation for late payment in that article. Edited August 28 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 I wonder if the developers don’t settle on time at what stage could the ATC pull the plug on the sale, pocket the deposit & re list? As I write this it just occurred to me that the listing agent for the sale would pocket a fair wack of the deposit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 28 Author Share Posted August 28 (edited) 24 minutes ago, With A Dream said: I wonder if the developers don’t settle on time at what stage could the ATC pull the plug on the sale, pocket the deposit & re list? As I write this it just occurred to me that the listing agent for the sale would pocket a fair wack of the deposit. Thats assuming the price would have gone up in the last couple of years. Property supposed to have gone down instead. Du val the most recent example of how tricky a business property development can be in auckland. Edited August 28 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 Has this supposed Chinese buyer actually confirmed and paid a deposit? If he has then there will be a interest penalty for late settlement. However has a sizeable deposit been made or is it pie on the sky stuff hoping it is sold ? The Chinese are to be fair not always the easiest to deal with when it comes to property dealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 11 hours ago, the galah said: Du val the most recent example of how tricky a business property development can be in auckland. Du Val would be the worst reference example to use. They were all flash and no substance. Who in NZ can afford to fly around NZ in a Corporate Jet when their core business is in Auckland? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 28 Author Share Posted August 28 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Du Val would be the worst reference example to use. They were all flash and no substance. Who in NZ can afford to fly around NZ in a Corporate Jet when their core business is in Auckland? rreally. Du val was one of aucklands best known large scale residential property developers The ATC sold to the chinese who i had thought were going to use the land for a large scale residential property development. were you thinking they were going to turn it into one big market garden? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 28 Share Posted August 28 19 minutes ago, the galah said: Du val was one of aucklands best known large scale residential property developers Best known but no substance. Which will become even more apparent as the Statutory Receiver works through the process. High Flyers with lots of marketing hype but little rubber on the road. A classic corporate ponzi scheme with over 70 interrelated companies all lending each other virtual money. As for the Chinese. Having had experience with a large construction company in Chongqinq I've always felt that their involvement in NZ construction would be thwart primarily for the main reason that stuffs up NZ Firms. Over regulation and compliance costs. Add to that unions! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 15 hours ago, the galah said: rreally. Du val was one of aucklands best known large scale residential property developers The ATC sold to the chinese who i had thought were going to use the land for a large scale residential property development. were you thinking they were going to turn it into one big market garden? Du Val were always going to go bust! Directors had been bust before and the business model they operated under was extremely poor and you would have been financially illiterate to have invested with them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 7 Author Share Posted September 7 (edited) I see peter profit has another headline today saying "the jungle drums are beating louder that the devleoper won't pay the $90 million in november" as had been agreed. Maybe he could have used "smoke signals' instead of jungle drums as that may turn out to be more appropriate if hes right. Again you would have to ask the question,given the ATC is paying close to $500,000 a month in interest to the bank for a loan and given the ATC says they can't provide a new training centre without HRNZ funds. Doesn't that mean that if the sale doesn't go through and HRNZ are going to continue supporting racing in auckland,then every month auckland aren't paid,HRNZ will need to cut funding they provide to south island clubs for things like stakes. Will HRNZ gamble on the atc land sale going through at a later date,like the ATC did on their apartment complex? Edited September 7 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 Does anyone actually know who this Chinese buyer actually is, and are they financial? It does appear that it could indeed be very shaky, hopefully they settle or the shite will hit the proverbial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 On 8/09/2024 at 3:45 AM, Brodie said: Does anyone actually know who this Chinese buyer actually is, and are they financial? It does appear that it could indeed be very shaky, hopefully they settle or the shite will hit the proverbial! All they ever say is chinese buyers. Seems a bit mysterious in some ways. Maybe they don't want anyone researching into their background. Wouldn't they file annual returns assuming they were a company. Where do they have the rest of their money invested and how solvent are they. they did pay a deposit of $10m,although mackinnon from the atc was reported at the time to say, the atc had been pleasantly surprised the amount the chinese had offered. they report all the time the real estate market in china has some serious issues. they say in china on average home prices are expected to fall over 8% this year and the volume down even more.Next year they are predicting home prices to drop another 4%. seems they have lots of apartments unsold and lots unfinished and thats badly impacted developers access to further funds and increasing developers risk exposure. So has the chinese buyer of the atc's, been impacted by that? its all a bit mysterious. It all leads to speculation and rumours like the peter profit headlines. Wouldn't the atc be having their annual meeting soon? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 (edited) 16 minutes ago, the galah said: All they ever say is chinese buyers. Seems a bit mysterious in some ways. Maybe they don't want anyone researching into their background. Wouldn't they file annual returns assuming they were a company. Where do they have the rest of their money invested and how solvent are they. they did pay a deposit of $10m,although mackinnon from the atc was reported at the time to say, the atc had been pleasantly surprised the amount the chinese had offered. they report all the time the real estate market in china has some serious issues. they say in china on average home prices are expected to fall over 8% this year and the volume down even more.Next year they are predicting home prices to drop another 4%. seems they have lots of apartments unsold and lots unfinished and thats badly impacted developers access to further funds and increasing developers risk exposure. So has the chinese buyer of the atc's, been impacted by that? its all a bit mysterious. It all leads to speculation and rumours like the peter profit headlines. Wouldn't the atc be having their annual meeting soon? The strange thing about the ATC's predicament is HRNZ have come out so strongly saying they are committed to saving auckland racing based on the sale. Doesn't common sense say HRNZ leadership should have waited and seen how the payment plays out before making such a commitment. Even if the ATC do get paid on time,however likely or unlikely that is,wouldn't you have to question how smart Hrnz leadeship is as they have never once mentioned what they will do in the event of the payment not being made in november. Either thats because they just plan and hope or its because they aren't transparent. Either way thats not good. Isn't that a fair comment. Edited September 9 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 3 hours ago, the galah said: All they ever say is chinese buyers. Seems a bit mysterious in some ways. Maybe they don't want anyone researching into their background. Wouldn't they file annual returns assuming they were a company. Where do they have the rest of their money invested and how solvent are they. they did pay a deposit of $10m,although mackinnon from the atc was reported at the time to say, the atc had been pleasantly surprised the amount the chinese had offered. they report all the time the real estate market in china has some serious issues. they say in china on average home prices are expected to fall over 8% this year and the volume down even more.Next year they are predicting home prices to drop another 4%. seems they have lots of apartments unsold and lots unfinished and thats badly impacted developers access to further funds and increasing developers risk exposure. So has the chinese buyer of the atc's, been impacted by that? its all a bit mysterious. It all leads to speculation and rumours like the peter profit headlines. Wouldn't the atc be having their annual meeting soon? The ATC usually has its AGM in October but recently announced they would wait till early December this year till the 'deal' was settled so an accurate picture of the situation of Club could be announced to members. PS.....seems like they trying something novel ...transparency and honesty to the members ! Keep in mind that the ATC still has an option to retain use/lease of the current Training facility for 2 x years after the sale completed ! The ATC refers to the buyer as Mt Hope but I believe the registered name of buyer is Golding Meadows Development Ltd ,a company registered in 2017. The main contact of the buyer has been mentioned as Wei Li , bit I suspect it is Shaoyun Li who has a business partner Laurence Deng . They have done previous developments in NZ . How good I don't know , worked this out thru quick NZ Companies search. GMD first registered as Coy in 2017 in NZ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 37 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said: The ATC usually has its AGM in October but recently announced they would wait till early December this year till the 'deal' was settled so an accurate picture of the situation of Club could be announced to members. PS.....seems like they trying something novel ...transparency and honesty to the members ! Keep in mind that the ATC still has an option to retain use/lease of the current Training facility for 2 x years after the sale completed ! The ATC refers to the buyer as Mt Hope but I believe the registered name of buyer is Golding Meadows Development Ltd ,a company registered in 2017. The main contact of the buyer has been mentioned as Wei Li , bit I suspect it is Shaoyun Li who has a business partner Laurence Deng . They have done previous developments in NZ . How good I don't know , worked this out thru quick NZ Companies search. GMD first registered as Coy in 2017 in NZ. Not good if buyer name is We Lie? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said: The ATC usually has its AGM in October but recently announced they would wait till early December this year till the 'deal' was settled so an accurate picture of the situation of Club could be announced to members. PS.....seems like they trying something novel ...transparency and honesty to the members ! Keep in mind that the ATC still has an option to retain use/lease of the current Training facility for 2 x years after the sale completed ! The ATC refers to the buyer as Mt Hope but I believe the registered name of buyer is Golding Meadows Development Ltd ,a company registered in 2017. The main contact of the buyer has been mentioned as Wei Li , bit I suspect it is Shaoyun Li who has a business partner Laurence Deng . They have done previous developments in NZ . How good I don't know , worked this out thru quick NZ Companies search. GMD first registered as Coy in 2017 in NZ. the two shareholders you mention in golding meadows development Ltd seem to have a further partners in jusheng huang and joanne Lan,who live in china.Golding road just being the area near the pukekohe complex. a quick search came up with they also did another development in auckland,grande meadow developments. The golding meadows develpment filed their annual return last week on 2/9/2024.I wonder what that showed. I suppose it will all become clearer,or maybe not, when the atc hold their meeting. Edited September 9 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted September 9 Share Posted September 9 On 29/08/2024 at 12:35 AM, Brodie said: Has this supposed Chinese buyer actually confirmed and paid a deposit? Jamie MacKinnon stated clearly in an interview with Paul Campbell that the club had received a $10m deposit from the buyer. It appears that if they pull out they will forfeit that payment. I assume the broker & the lawyers have taken their cut & would estimate if the buyer pulls out the ATC would pocket around $6.5million and would then put the property back on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 (edited) 58 minutes ago, With A Dream said: Jamie MacKinnon stated clearly in an interview with Paul Campbell that the club had received a $10m deposit from the buyer. It appears that if they pull out they will forfeit that payment. I assume the broker & the lawyers have taken their cut & would estimate if the buyer pulls out the ATC would pocket around $6.5million and would then put the property back on the market. Maybe peter profit has jumped the gun,but he seems to think hes got the inside word. Clearly it would be a very major setback for the ATC if there is a delay. hopefully its just a delay,but that would still be very bad. Why would hrnz be gambling on the outcome of a real estate deal. If things did happen to go wrong,theres the likelihood the whole of nz harness would suffer if they continue with that gamble. The ATC have no choice ,but hrnz? The atc may well have got a $10 million deposit but haven't they said land values in auckland went down in 2023. A real estate website says in the last 12 months houses sold in pukekohe are down 4%,although another one says overall,down but not quite as much.So 2024 no better.The originally agreement was in 2022 wasn't it,when the prices were most likely higher. Its all speculation,but if there was a need for a new buyer then even if you go best case scenario,the value the land would have to go up each month before they sold it ,by at least half a million just to retain the status quo,as thats whats being added to the size of the loan they have with the bank each month. And wouldn't that be compounding so that makes it even worse. and how likely would they be to get a quick sale. Those things take time. So even if they agreed to a delay with the current buyer then their $80 million keeps getting higher. Lets hope they get paid in november. Because they have chosen to keep alexandra park then they have limited their options or at least delayed other scenarios which must prove costly givennothing happens overnight and the banks are owed so much. Edited September 9 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted Saturday at 04:47 AM Share Posted Saturday at 04:47 AM The ATC put out an update yesterday on the property sale to Mt Hope. Apparently Mt Hope have the money but are not sure if they can move it out of China in order to settle. I must say I’m not impressed with the tone of the statement by Jamie MacKinnon, in these situations it is better to stick to the facts & not indulge in sarcasm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted Saturday at 06:19 AM Author Share Posted Saturday at 06:19 AM (edited) 1 hour ago, With A Dream said: The ATC put out an update yesterday on the property sale to Mt Hope. Apparently Mt Hope have the money but are not sure if they can move it out of China in order to settle. I must say I’m not impressed with the tone of the statement by Jamie MacKinnon, in these situations it is better to stick to the facts & not indulge in sarcasm. Sounds like someone stuck in a tunnel,saying we still can get to the light we see at the end of the tunnel. But are they acknowledging the price that they will pay to reach the light,if they ever make it? Edited Saturday at 06:20 AM by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted Saturday at 07:01 PM Share Posted Saturday at 07:01 PM 14 hours ago, With A Dream said: The ATC put out an update yesterday on the property sale to Mt Hope. Apparently Mt Hope have the money but are not sure if they can move it out of China in order to settle. I must say I’m not impressed with the tone of the statement by Jamie MacKinnon, in these situations it is better to stick to the facts & not indulge in sarcasm. Sounds like bollacks to me! If this is the case that they can not get the money out of China, then surely they must’ve known this ages ago? Surely there would’ve been plenty of dialogue about this and yet ATC are still holding out hope of settlement? Hopefully they do settle or it is probably going to be pretty desperate trying to find a buyer at the level with Mr Li! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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