horse values

[Chief Stipe]

I don't think @the galah is being negative.  It's just an opinion.  I think we are too precious in NZ and robust opinions be they negative or positive should be embraced more.  That's where the OZZIE's are so much better than us.  

But on the topic of horse training and longevity I 

Bart Cummings said:

"Patience is the cheapest thing in racing but most people don't use it.

"I worked out early that you have to aim for the top and then work down. I've tried to eliminate the speculative side of racing by trying to choose Group One winners as yearlings. If they don't make the grade there are plenty of other races around."

"They think, they are honest, they are genuine, they are very intelligent and they do not forget. You get a few non-conformists occasionally but if you are good tempered and good natured, horses will respond in a similar manner."

[TAB For Ever]

Galah , I'll assist you with your query re LONGEVITY !

As I attended most Jewels I can remember at least 7 trotters in the green & white there.

Pinup boy The Fiery Ginga came 2nd and went on to win 28 races from 134 starts ,including Aussie trips.Cocktail Waiter ran 5th and went on to race 53 x times .

Twice AC had 2 x horses in the Jewels race .Dark Ops 2/48 returned later year with a different trainer and I saw one of her progeny race last night at the Park ! Often AC's horses beat home those from our top stables[Purdon &Dunn] and even beat home Sundees Son who raced 12 x times as a 2 yr old !

Other Jewels horses of AC's......Imperial Whiz 24 x wins from 243 starts ...WOW. He was sold after setting a record at 2....28 x starts !

Others...Solana 4 wins/ 63 starts , Castletonian 12 / 94 , Rhythmic Sun 12 /70 , .

Earlier horses.......Armed Guard 20 wins /199 starts. , Armed Raider 8 / 91 , Prince Harry 14 / 112, Regal Assassin 16 / 111

Night Watch [out of Dark Ops ]  6 /49 , Constar 7 / 29 , Mr Majestic 7 / 93 ,Sunnys Dream 1/48 , Heather Castleton 8 /52 

Wait there's more .......The Jinja Ninja 4 / 41  plus dam of Superstar Ninja 10 / 95

Sunscoming 4 / 35 , Christmas Babe 11 / 128 ,Latheronwheel 5 / 25

ok ,ok also Zoogin 0/29 , Crown Range 0/32 , Eye To Eye 1 /25 ,Speedy Success 1 / 53 

So the LONGEVITY question answered above !

[the galah]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Galah , I'll assist you with your query re LONGEVITY !

As I attended most Jewels I can remember at least 7 trotters in the green & white there.

Pinup boy The Fiery Ginga came 2nd and went on to win 28 races from 134 starts ,including Aussie trips.Cocktail Waiter ran 5th and went on to race 53 x times .

Twice AC had 2 x horses in the Jewels race .Dark Ops 2/48 returned later year with a different trainer and I saw one of her progeny race last night at the Park ! Often AC's horses beat home those from our top stables[Purdon &Dunn] and even beat home Sundees Son who raced 12 x times as a 2 yr old !

Other Jewels horses of AC's......Imperial Whiz 24 x wins from 243 starts ...WOW. He was sold after setting a record at 2....28 x starts !

Others...Solana 4 wins/ 63 starts , Castletonian 12 / 94 , Rhythmic Sun 12 /70 , .

Earlier horses.......Armed Guard 20 wins /199 starts. , Armed Raider 8 / 91 , Prince Harry 14 / 112, Regal Assassin 16 / 111

Night Watch [out of Dark Ops ]  6 /49 , Constar 7 / 29 , Mr Majestic 7 / 93 ,Sunnys Dream 1/48 , Heather Castleton 8 /52 

Wait there's more .......The Jinja Ninja 4 / 41  plus dam of Superstar Ninja 10 / 95

Sunscoming 4 / 35 , Christmas Babe 11 / 128 ,Latheronwheel 5 / 25

ok ,ok also Zoogin 0/29 , Crown Range 0/32 , Eye To Eye 1 /25 ,Speedy Success 1 / 53 

So the LONGEVITY question answered above !

gee you know your alan clark horses.Nice work.

and yes you have pointed out some with real longevity.

i was aware of the likes of imperial whiz and armed guard.they have gone on to be very good money spinners. 

constar i know was a good young trotter and of its 7 wins 6 came as a 2 year old.

i'm aware he trained some of the others,although theres a couple you've mentioned that i've never heard of.

but i still believe in what i have said.

And i'm aware of quite a few that you probably have never heard of, that support my way of thinking.

my posts on this thread have been about horse values.

I've mentioned about 5 horses on this topic.

 i still think all the people who bid substanial amounts for imperial monarch,(and there were quite a few bidding on him),over valued him.

as i say, $21,000 for a horse who had 1 non tote and 1 raceday win out of 48 starts seems excessive.

Also ,have you not worked out that i'm the one not undervaluing mr clark as a trainer.

And i'm the one who thinks the people who think they can improve imperial monarch simply because mr clark no longer trains it,are misjudging things.

 

Edited October 5 by the galah

[the galah]

29 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

Also ,have you not worked out that i'm the one not undervaluing mr clark as a trainer.

And i'm the one who thinks the people who think they can improve imperial monarch simply because mr clark no longer trains it,are misjudging things.

 

reading that,I probably didn't word that part quite right.

I have been trying to put across my opinion that

There being 3 parts to my saying he was over valued at $21,000. firstly because i think the prospective buyers have overestimated  they can improve imperial monarch now hes no longer trained and driven by mr clark,secondly because of the longevity factor which i think is very important and thridly based on its race record.

I had thought i had inferred the a clark factor when i said earlier ,people underestimate mr clarks abilty in training young horses.

Thats what i have been trying to say anyway. 

Edited October 5 by the galah

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

reading that,I probably didn't word that part quite right.

I have been trying to put across my opinion that

There being 3 parts to my saying he was over valued at $21,000. firstly because i think the prospective buyers have overestimated  they can improve imperial monarch now hes no longer trained and driven by mr clark,secondly because of the longevity factor which i think is very important and thridly based on its race record.

I had thought i had inferred the a clark factor when i said earlier ,people underestimate mr clarks abilty in training young horses.

Thats what i have been trying to say anyway. 

Lol You have changed its name Galah!

TAB is clearly pretty close to Mr Clark or his specialty subject is “Race winners trained by Alan Clark”.

To be fair all things considered, Alan Clark did a very good job considering he didnt even have  a track of his own to work on.

He is clearly an enthusiast who loved the game by starting his horses so many times and regularly at the trials.

We all know how Mr Clark was going to drive and as a punter, we took our chances if we backed his horses.

The Fiery Ginga was one out of the box, just amazingly tough, and won so many races while being trained by basically an amateur trainer.

Alan Clark always ensured there is no loitering in any race that he drives in, and seemed like a nice fellah when he was interviewed.

As for Imperial Command being sold for $21K, providing the horse was still sound, then he may well be not too bad value seem he has gone to Oz, where he can be placed better than in NZ,

If he remained in NZ then yes he would struggle you would think if he was to continue to race in Canterbury!

He has plenty of speed  and the trot races are mostly sprints in Oz so he could well win plenty in Oz depending on the state he races in,

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5 by Brodie

[the galah]

9 hours ago, Brodie said:

Lol You have changed its name Galah!

TAB is clearly pretty close to Mr Clark or his specialty subject is “Race winners trained by Alan Clark”.

To be fair all things considered, Alan Clark did a very good job considering he didnt even have  a track of his own to work on.

He is clearly an enthusiast who loved the game by starting his horses so many times and regularly at the trials.

We all know how Mr Clark was going to drive and as a punter, we took our chances if we backed his horses.

The Fiery Ginga was one out of the box, just amazingly tough, and won so many races while being trained by basically an amateur trainer.

Alan Clark always ensured there is no loitering in any race that he drives in, and seemed like a nice fellah when he was interviewed.

As for Imperial Command being sold for $21K, providing the horse was still sound, then he may well be not too bad value seem he has gone to Oz, where he can be placed better than in NZ,

If he remained in NZ then yes he would struggle you would think if he was to continue to race in Canterbury!

He has plenty of speed  and the trot races are mostly sprints in Oz so he could well win plenty in Oz depending on the state he races in,

 

 

 

 

Yes,i got my imperials mixed up in that last post of mine.

I had seen imperial monarch race earlier in the night when i posted that.

Imperial monarch interestingly had 5 starts,2 as a 2yo and 3 as a 3yo, in nz for c mcdowell.

is see within 12 months he has won 9 races from about 20 starts and is ruhnning in free for alls at melton.He ran against the likes of queen elida last night.Now he has proved to be a very good buy.

I'd be very surprised if alan clarks imperial command gets anywhere near that.

The thing is,if tabforever really thinks imperial command is worth $21,000,then how come the horse had only been able to win 1 race ,and 1 non tote(3 horse) penalty free 2yo race,from 48 starts. 

Mr clark i believe does things very different to most. Does he not have them in the cart as weanlings.His horses have always trotted nice so he knows how to shoe them,and he would have probably the best mannered yearlings in the cart you would see ,bar anyone,because of the work he has already done on them prior.

But theres more to just judging whether that is an overall successful strategy based just on the success of a couple of horses,which i agree he has trained.But there are others you will not have heard of. Now he won'r be alone in that,and i'm not knocking him,i'm just saying i don't have to agree with his strategy.

After all,had alan clark started training the fiery ginga when he was 4 instead of 1,then i'm sure he would have still been a top horse and highly likely raced longer.People forget that. But i suppose when you have 5 new yearlings every year to train then you need to find out quick if they can go otherwise next thing you have 25 horses in 5 years time.each to their own like i often say.

Edited October 5 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

On 10/6/2024 at 10:26 AM, the galah said:

Yes,i got my imperials mixed up in that last post of mine.

I had seen imperial monarch race earlier in the night when i posted that.

Imperial monarch interestingly had 5 starts,2 as a 2yo and 3 as a 3yo, in nz for c mcdowell.

is see within 12 months he has won 9 races from about 20 starts and is ruhnning in free for alls at melton.He ran against the likes of queen elida last night.Now he has proved to be a very good buy.

I'd be very surprised if alan clarks imperial command gets anywhere near that.

The thing is,if tabforever really thinks imperial command is worth $21,000,then how come the horse had only been able to win 1 race ,and 1 non tote(3 horse) penalty free 2yo race,from 48 starts. 

Mr clark i believe does things very different to most. Does he not have them in the cart as weanlings.His horses have always trotted nice so he knows how to shoe them,and he would have probably the best mannered yearlings in the cart you would see ,bar anyone,because of the work he has already done on them prior.

But theres more to just judging whether that is an overall successful strategy based just on the success of a couple of horses,which i agree he has trained.But there are others you will not have heard of. Now he won'r be alone in that,and i'm not knocking him,i'm just saying i don't have to agree with his strategy.

After all,had alan clark started training the fiery ginga when he was 4 instead of 1,then i'm sure he would have still been a top horse and highly likely raced longer.People forget that. But i suppose when you have 5 new yearlings every year to train then you need to find out quick if they can go otherwise next thing you have 25 horses in 5 years time.each to their own like i often say.

Give it a rest Brodie......start knocking someone else .

If ,If If.....if your Auntie had balls she would be your Uncle.

AC...living the dream I reckon....it was mentioned earlier he didn't have a track ...WRONG ...he built his own house and his own track.Just down the road from another sporting legend Jeff Wilson !

[the galah]

 

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

Give it a rest Brodie......start knocking someone else .

If ,If If.....if your Auntie had balls she would be your Uncle.

AC...living the dream I reckon....it was mentioned earlier he didn't have a track ...WRONG ...he built his own house and his own track.Just down the road from another sporting legend Jeff Wilson !

giving an opinion different to yours is not knocking someone,Its just having a different opinion.

and you seem to be picking parts of some replies from people and inferring negativity is the overall tone of those replies,when thats not the case if you apply context.

however,I did like when you compared me earlier,to a rooster who likes to hear himself crow when the sun shines.

The reason i most liked that you made that comment about me ,was because it confirmed how i thought you perceived me.I don't know,that sort of amused me that you showed that,and it was a colourful way of you putting it as well.

i can tell some of my replies agigtate you just a little.

some of my posts seem to do that to people sometimes.i have the same effect on the chief sometimes.

i think people who i aggitate with what i say, it gradually builds and then they just express what they think and let off a bit of steam when replying. I've seen the same pattern before on here. 

I have long before this thread,given thought to why i contribute to bit of a yarn,and wanting to hear my own voice is not significant,but would be a factor,but then again so is anyone who makes comments on any forum,including yourself.

i believe its a mixture of having a lot of spare time,boredom,being a bit isolated and finding this a forum with people of similar interests that i don't get elsewhere,wishing to express opinions that i believe should be given some thought.the main one would be the having a lot of spare time.

But tabforever,i would say you really don't know me if you think the rooster thing is what motivates my posting.But you may say,well i would say that,but i like to think if i say something its 100% what i'm thinking.

anyway,maybe if you were to meet me one day we could swap alan clark stories.Hes an interesting fella and does things differently. 

Edited October 7 by the galah

[the galah]

29 minutes ago, the galah said:

 

giving an opinion different to yours is not knocking someone,Its just having a different opinion.

and you seem to be picking parts of some replies from people and inferring negativity is the overall tone of those replies,when thats not the case if you apply context.

however,I did like when you compared me earlier,to a rooster who likes to hear himself crow when the sun shines.

The reason i most liked that you made that comment about me ,was because it confirmed how i thought you perceived me.I don't know,that sort of amused me that you showed that,and it was a colourful way of you putting it as well.

i can tell some of my replies agigtate you just a little.

some of my posts seem to do that to people sometimes.i have the same effect on the chief sometimes.

i think people who i aggitate with what i say, it gradually builds and then they just express what they think and let off a bit of steam when replying. I've seen the same pattern before on here. 

I have long before this thread,given thought to why i contribute to bit of a yarn,and wanting to hear my own voice is not significant,but would be a factor,but then again so is anyone who makes comments on any forum,including yourself.

i believe its a mixture of having a lot of spare time,boredom,being a bit isolated and finding this a forum with people of similar interests that i don't get elsewhere,wishing to express opinions that i believe should be given some thought.the main one would be the having a lot of spare time.

But tabforever,i would say you really don't know me if you think the rooster thing is what motivates my posting.But you may say,well i would say that,but i like to think if i say something its 100% what i'm thinking.

anyway,maybe if you were to meet me one day we could swap alan clark stories.Hes an interesting fella and does things differently. 

And of course i should have said a significant reason i post is i like to hear what other people are thinking on the topics i post on. Everyones opinions are interesting given the subject matter is something i have a keen interest in.

i always think people are much more likely to say what they are thinking on a forum like this than they are to your face. too often people in real life will agree with someone when they don't in fact. I much prefer people expressing their real opinions.I'm someone who will always say what i think if asked so a forum like this with true opinions suits.

Edited October 7 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

I always thought The Firey Ginga was made to do too much too soon for too long.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I always thought The Firey Ginga was made to do too much too soon for too long.

you could be right Chief , but sometimes the death seat can find you a good winner.  and you can grind the opposition down a bit. 

[Brodie]

On 7/10/2024 at 7:31 PM, TAB For Ever said:

Give it a rest Brodie......start knocking someone else .

If ,If If.....if your Auntie had balls she would be your Uncle.

AC...living the dream I reckon....it was mentioned earlier he didn't have a track ...WRONG ...he built his own house and his own track.Just down the road from another sporting legend Jeff Wilson !

What are you smoking TAB.

You put up a quote from The Galah and tell “The Brodster” to give it a rest??

Where has Brodie been knocking Alan Clark?

 

[TAB For Ever]

On 10/8/2024 at 8:19 PM, Brodie said:

What are you smoking TAB.

You put up a quote from The Galah and tell “The Brodster” to give it a rest??

Where has Brodie been knocking Alan Clark?

 

Well Brodie I actually shocked you have switched off your 'go-to' post of my TAB not letting you get enough on...hopefully you took my advice and spoke to Dean Shannon personally.

Early in thread you Questioned why AC was even selling horses ,adding folk should be wary this fact. Again too long inside padded cell bemoaning fact that sizable FO place bets not welcomed.

As I pointed out ,selling horses is what AC does ,his bread and butter. Gets them up and running earlier than most and they all for sale ...even TFG was when at his peak !

You were well off the money and adding some fuel to Galahs fire ! 

[TAB For Ever]

On 10/7/2024 at 9:52 PM, Chief Stipe said:

I always thought The Firey Ginga was made to do too much too soon for too long.

As the horse in question has not raced for nearly 10 years I hope you have recovered from your thoughts.

You entitled to your opinion and no doubt have looked closely at some of AC's thinkings , his horses have certainly developed  'Longevity' and I'm sure you'd be very happy with his very low vet bills and the fact he taught himself all the skills required to train and drive against the top professionals.

[TAB For Ever]

On 10/7/2024 at 8:42 PM, the galah said:

 

giving an opinion different to yours is not knocking someone,Its just having a different opinion.

and you seem to be picking parts of some replies from people and inferring negativity is the overall tone of those replies,when thats not the case if you apply context.

however,I did like when you compared me earlier,to a rooster who likes to hear himself crow when the sun shines.

The reason i most liked that you made that comment about me ,was because it confirmed how i thought you perceived me.I don't know,that sort of amused me that you showed that,and it was a colourful way of you putting it as well.

i can tell some of my replies agigtate you just a little.

some of my posts seem to do that to people sometimes.i have the same effect on the chief sometimes.

i think people who i aggitate with what i say, it gradually builds and then they just express what they think and let off a bit of steam when replying. I've seen the same pattern before on here. 

I have long before this thread,given thought to why i contribute to bit of a yarn,and wanting to hear my own voice is not significant,but would be a factor,but then again so is anyone who makes comments on any forum,including yourself.

i believe its a mixture of having a lot of spare time,boredom,being a bit isolated and finding this a forum with people of similar interests that i don't get elsewhere,wishing to express opinions that i believe should be given some thought.the main one would be the having a lot of spare time.

But tabforever,i would say you really don't know me if you think the rooster thing is what motivates my posting.But you may say,well i would say that,but i like to think if i say something its 100% what i'm thinking.

anyway,maybe if you were to meet me one day we could swap alan clark stories.Hes an interesting fella and does things differently. 

Nah , your posts don't agitate me , you probably the 'top' poster on here which IMO shows a real passion so all power to you.

But my interest in Harness is about the Horses and People and the raceday experience.

So many of your posts like the size of Betting pools and where and when the money comes from have no interest to me ...others are good for my insomnia , puts me out fast.

If the Muppet pair of Statler and Waldorf were comparing your overall posts with steak they would call them MEDIUM.......not very rare and not well done !

The odd post does make me laugh , a lot. The most recent one was after many comments about most things around the Alexandra Park debacle you commented that you went there ONCE , about 20 years ago and you proceeded to tell of your experience !

Now that was funny !

But No .....no irritation ,the Harness section needs your enthusiasm !

[Brodie]

7 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Well Brodie I actually shocked you have switched off your 'go-to' post of my TAB not letting you get enough on...hopefully you took my advice and spoke to Dean Shannon personally.

Early in thread you Questioned why AC was even selling horses ,adding folk should be wary this fact. Again too long inside padded cell bemoaning fact that sizable FO place bets not welcomed.

As I pointed out ,selling horses is what AC does ,his bread and butter. Gets them up and running earlier than most and they all for sale ...even TFG was when at his peak !

You were well off the money and adding some fuel to Galahs fire ! 

Hardly think Brodie was hammering Alan Clark at all, for questioning why he put Imperial Command up on Gavel to sell?

I was not aware that Mr Clark was a heavy seller of horses due to the number of times he lines them up?

If I hadve known that he was a seller I wouldve been into buying The Fiery Ginga, Boots and all.

 

 

 

 

[the galah]

13 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

Nah , your posts don't agitate me

Your words in this thread tell a different story.

I just re read what you have said.here are some of your comments just to remind you.

"Lay off him! 

knocking him(mr clark) every which way.

contrary to what is spewed out on here .

your quite prepared to join a thread that was only going to get more negative with derogatory comments about a good honest couple of grass root battlers.

your like the rooster who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow(i did like that one)

add fuel to mr galahs fire

some of your posts are good for my insomnia,puts me out fast

if the muppet pair were comparing your overall posts with steak,they would call them medium and not very well done.

now that was funny( reference to my my expressing an opinion)

The use of capitals,i assume because you were saying duh.

LONGEVITY(3 times),WRONG"

 

so thats what you have said.

Now tabforever,you saying you weren't irritated by me isn't true.

I know it and you know it.

I don't know what the big deal is that you have to deny that to be the case.After all it is no big deal. 

 

You remind me of someone who most likely at some time has been in a position where you have been part of committes or perhaps in jobs where you were part of the decision making.

And when someone comes up with an idea or someone makes a comment and you have been asked at a meeting or a staff meeting,what do you think tabforever,you would reply great idea ,thats something we shall give a lot of thought to,keep up the good work.

Then when you walk out of the room,with your fellow committee members or management group,probably those in the same circle who you like to hang out with,one will say, did you really think that was  a good idea tabforever.   And you would reply,no the guys a twat,his ideas were stupid but best to let him think hes clever.

So the person whos ideas you just degraded would in time come to realise he was just just given the brush off,that he wasn't being taken seriously and that he had been told just words for appearances sake.

anyway,your assumptions that i have a lack of knowledge on whats been discussed in this current topic, well your way off the mark on this occassion. 

Edited October 10 by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

10 hours ago, the galah said:

Your words in this thread tell a different story.

I just re read what you have said.here are some of your comments just to remind you.

"Lay off him! 

knocking him(mr clark) every which way.

contrary to what is spewed out on here .

your quite prepared to join a thread that was only going to get more negative with derogatory comments about a good honest couple of grass root battlers.

your like the rooster who thought the sun had risen to hear him crow(i did like that one)

add fuel to mr galahs fire

some of your posts are good for my insomnia,puts me out fast

if the muppet pair were comparing your overall posts with steak,they would call them medium and not very well done.

now that was funny( reference to my my expressing an opinion)

The use of capitals,i assume because you were saying duh.

LONGEVITY(3 times),WRONG"

 

so thats what you have said.

Now tabforever,you saying you weren't irritated by me isn't true.

I know it and you know it.

I don't know what the big deal is that you have to deny that to be the case.After all it is no big deal. 

 

You remind me of someone who most likely at some time has been in a position where you have been part of committes or perhaps in jobs where you were part of the decision making.

And when someone comes up with an idea or someone makes a comment and you have been asked at a meeting or a staff meeting,what do you think tabforever,you would reply great idea ,thats something we shall give a lot of thought to,keep up the good work.

Then when you walk out of the room,with your fellow committee members or management group,probably those in the same circle who you like to hang out with,one will say, did you really think that was  a good idea tabforever.   And you would reply,no the guys a twat,his ideas were stupid but best to let him think hes clever.

So the person whos ideas you just degraded would in time come to realise he was just just given the brush off,that he wasn't being taken seriously and that he had been told just words for appearances sake.

anyway,your assumptions that i have a lack of knowledge on whats been discussed in this current topic, well your way off the mark on this occassion. 

Get it right Galah,

The Muppet pair when comparing your posts with a Steak.....they are medium ,not very rare and not well done.

And me on a Committee....I liked a 3 x man committee best when two of them were absent !

Build a bridge old son....I complimented your posts....just don't pass off opinions for facts.

Big night tomorrow night...a lot of interesting and very competitive fields.

If my 1995 car starts I'll be at Alex Park ,the busiest TAB in the land ,glued to the TV races from the Southplus 9 sports screens !

Great night out...free parking ,free entry ,free race book , free water , maybe pick up a few stronger drinks off friends ,talk to a few interesting Harness enthusiasts and some fellow rest-home attendees. Perfect ,

 

[paleface adios]

sounds like your all trying to bag Allan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

a

[the galah]

12 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Build a bridge old son....I complimented your posts....just don't pass off opinions for facts.

 

 

 

I'm sure over the years you've almost perfected the art of replies to others, which can be both nicely balanced with undermining yet complimentary words,to get your point across. I'm sure that skill has served you well.

On this topic i've used your words to illustrate you got that balance wrong.You overdid the undermining thing,to the point it prompted a response from me pointing that out and i gave the reason why you got the balance wrong.

You say you've complemented my posts in the past,as if that context is supposed to mean something to me.

Thats a tad condescending,and you know that. Your doing the ....let me think i'm clever..thing again that i referred to earlier.i don't post anything looking for complements.

As to me passing off opinions as facts.

You need to read what i say. I would have thought when i say "in my opinion" over and over,you would take it to mean i'm expressing an opinion.

I had thought that was very self explanatory.No hidden meaning there.

enjoy your night out tonight.

Maybe when you have a spare minute tonight,go count the number of people in the stand i referred to on the topic you said my comments gave you a laugh,if it still exists.Will there even be 1? let me know.And don't include yourself in the total.

Edited October 10 by the galah

[the galah]

Night watch sold for $4,500. 

I guess williamson being honest and advising that the horse has bled in the past has meant the 5 year old mare sold for less.

he did also state she was a competotive racehorse,so he must think she still will be just that and i'm sure if anyone rung him he would be totally honest with any questions asked. K tomlinson on trackside said she goes best with more than 1 week between races so i guess thats to do with the bleeding issue she has to be treated for,but this is a horse who has earned just under $40,000 this season.

actually the bleeding thing is interesting. I read a lot of studies about it once.The data showed that it was to do with intense training and racing, how much a horse had had in its career. The studies also said it seemed to happen more  in colder temparatures which makes sense and it was suspected air pollution may be a factor,but that was unproven.

in my opinion,i've always believed its caused sometimes by drivers over extending their horses when they are beaten. In other words, they are tired with 400m to go because they have been overdriven early in a race,but because they are in with a chance occasionally you see drivers keep at them . I think some horses try so hard and they pay the price for an unnecessarily over taxing drive.I can name many examples of tha over the years. In fact theres a couple of horses going around at the moment i suspect have had that happen to them and you can see it in their form.

thats why i say,the worst thing any driver can do is chase the field when they have lost too much ground at the start,to be any realistic chance of placing. 

[the galah]

On 25/09/2024 at 7:38 PM, the galah said:

Imperial command sold for $21,000 on gavel house today.

I started this thread about how harness horses aren't worth much,and then that comes along.

I'm very, very surprised that someone would pay anywhere near that for him. Seemingly there were many chasing him including offn racing i think it was.

He's had 48 race day starts and about 20 official trials and workouts and is only 3.

He had the 1 raceday win(i backed him that day) and 1 other win in a non tote 2year old 3 horse race.

His last run at the trials, he performed quite out of character in bolting in a wild gallop for the last 500m.

$1,500 for ya know and $21,000 for imperial command.

go figure. 

Well it turns out andy gath,the victorian trainer was the person who thought imperial command was worth $21,000.interesting.

Imperial command has now had 2 starts over there.

By the looks of it,someone has punted it bigtime. 

Maybe that was tabforever and we haven't heard from him recently because hes had to take up working again after the punt.

But A Gath has trained some good horses so maybe imperial command can win shortly.

In his first race over there he went out a $1.70 favorite and actually went ok for 2nd. It was a strange field,ranging from a 3 start non placegetter to imperial whiz,who's won $260,000 but seems to have dropped back to a rating 40-45 type grade.

anyway,imperial command ran like he did here,showed reasonable but not high gate speed,held the lead because he had the advantage of the 1 draw,then looked one paced but kept trying and ran 2nd.

then this week,in a 3 year old race,which had a couple who had won 4 or 5 and the rest being 1 win out of form horses,Imperial command looked back to the form he showed just before he went to aussie,pulling hard in the score up and always looking like breaking even before the start,which he did. Took no part.Punters did their chips again,with the commentator saying pre race imperial command came over to aussie with a good record. 2 wins from 50 starts a handy at best record i would think mr commentator.

his form so far is pretty much as it was in NZ,no better,no worse in my opinion.

anyway,i said i would keep an eye on his aussie performances and let people know how he was going,given some rubbished my thoughts on his value.

A gath a good trainer, so he may get his manners sorted and become a happier horse than last start.time will tell.

Edited November 30 by the galah

[Gammalite]

31 minutes ago, the galah said:

Well it turns out andy gath,the victorian trainer was the person who thought imperial command was worth $21,000.interesting.

Imperial command has now had 2 starts over there.

Well The Gath stable had great success with Tornado Valley as a fairly 'used' older horses from NZ. He became a millionaire winning the Interdominion and so owner  Norm Jenkinbought several tried trotters from NZ last few years trying to replicate that.

The Gath trotters are going poorly lately though 🤔. Not sure what has happened. The French trotter that Won the Great Southern Star  defeating Just Believe early in year, didn't fire a shot  for them first up for the stable,  the other night for the Gaths.

Your thread horse Imperial Command galloped and ran last Wednesday night on a All TROT Bendigo racecard. The Gath 3 yearold filly Saydie also last and banned to the trials as well. 

Is amazing they have enough trotters in Victoria , to sometimes run all trot race-cards .  Something they should encourage in NZ, as anyone can win those sort of races.  (Not just the Premier stables)

You could just half those big 16 horse Trot fields into 8 racing across 2 races,  and a LOT more people get a winning horse then to keep them motivated and interested.  .  

[the galah]

18 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Well The Gath stable had great success with Tornado Valley as a fairly 'used' older horses from NZ. He became a millionaire winning the Interdominion and so owner  Norm Jenkinbought several tried trotters from NZ last few years trying to replicate that.

The Gath trotters are going poorly lately though 🤔. Not sure what has happened. The French trotter that Won the Great Southern Star  defeating Just Believe early in year, didn't fire a shot  for them first up for the stable,  the other night for the Gaths.

Your thread horse Imperial Command galloped and ran last Wednesday night on a All TROT Bendigo racecard. The Gath 3 yearold filly Saydie also last and banned to the trials as well. 

Is amazing they have enough trotters in Victoria , to sometimes run all trot race-cards .  Something they should encourage in NZ, as anyone can win those sort of races.  (Not just the Premier stables)

You could just half those big 16 horse Trot fields into 8 racing across 2 races,  and a LOT more people get a winning horse then to keep them motivated and interested.  .  

I've always surmised the increasing % of trotters in victoria may have something to do with the emma stewart syndrome.

In other words,you still enjoy the horses and want to continue participation,but think,why bother breeding a pacer when you know you will not be competitive in the age group races and when you believed the most successful pacing trainer was using performance enhancers. That would be my guess. 

as to andy gath.

i think you have hit the nail on the head when you referred to the comaprison of tornado valley and imperial command.

i just looked up tornado valleys record. He only had 5 raceday starts by the time he turned 4,for 2 wins. He actually was given 12 workouts and trials,4 as a late 2 year old and 9 as a 3 year old,before he ever had his first raceday start and had won 9 of those 12. Knowing the way terry mcmillan is,he would have been just looking after him anyway and not over stressing him in those.

So while he had started 57 times when gath bought him,he had reached the top class here,but most importantly for his longevity,he had been driven by Mcmillan or gerard o'reilly. And Mcmillan,often to punters frustration,always used to drive like hes out for a sunday stroll and g o'reilly always drove tornado valley in a way where he found the line,not as he does some other horses these days.

i used to back tornado valley all the time and you always knew he would back up his form,because he was driven to do so.

and if you asked what terry mcmillan wanted in a racehorse,he would say a top older horse.

So compare that to the background of Imperial command.Its the complete opposite in every way.

To me,i've always thought,as important as the horse is,is who the previous trainer was. Like i remember someone telling me the story of an aussie he knew who paid a 6 figure sum for an ex all star horse,and was very disappointed in how it never performed to anywhere near the same level.I mean,is that surprising. I think not.

Andy Gath and others who are on the lookout for a nice NZ horse really have a far more difficult job than even 10 years ago.The terry mcmillan type trainers who train their horses to peak at 6 to 8 are next to non existant anymore.That g mcclymont,who had those couple of winners at addington would have been a good person to buy one off when they were trotting around southland a couple of years ago,showing real promise but galloping all the time. She fits the t mcmillan mould,but too late now. And also,the circumstances of the people selling really can dictate if someone sells,so thats a variable.

Edited November 30 by the galah

[Gammalite]

7 hours ago, the galah said:

Andy Gath and others who are on the lookout for a nice NZ horse really have a far more difficult job than even 10 years ago.The

Team Bond and Team Hall in the Wild WA have been buying horses successfully for decades. I'm TheMightyQuinn probably the highlight. Regazzo Mach in recent times, at over $400k set them back a bit , as didn't perform at that value. so now they are way more reluctant to shell out the Big bucks anymore.

7 hours ago, the galah said:

Like i remember someone telling me the story of an aussie he knew who paid a 6 figure sum for an ex all star horse,and was very disappointed in how it never performed to anywhere near the same level.I mean,is that surprising. I think not.

Absolutely. You cannot Possibly improve a horse on the best in the Business . There's one here in Queensland .

ALWAYS HAVE FAITH who had won 4 out of 7 end of 2021 (3 at Addington) for the Allstars , for $50k . And sold to Greg Mitchell , an Albion Park committeeman millionaire who has a few horses with Grant Dixon .

they must of paid a Absolute Fortune for it ? hundreds of thousands ?  but turned into nothing. the Horse raced on just last Friday at Albion here Race 8,  in a poor Midweek field of horses. and ran 2nd last not even close 🤕.  No chance of improving a horse on Allstars. what were they thinking? 

WE ALWAYS HAVE FAITH has raced 34 times just this year for 3 wins and $41k. Barely broke even. and it's spose to be a good Horse?  they go pretty quick these days. They must be HUGELY disappointed. 

Better to settle on a ''tried trotter ' as you were saying. they are more longitive in career and not burnt out from the speeds which are still back at 1.58 to 2.00 MR mostly , consistantly around Australia and NZ.