Chief Stipe Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Well i think clubs do look after them. Their point is, they should also get rebates. That's ludicrous because already cash starved clubs would be giving away revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 38 minutes ago, mardigras said: If I buy from your shop but you make zero gross revenue from me, will you give me a rebate? If you bring 300 people with you, that buy drinks, food etc, yep i would give you a rebate. Simple basic logic. Hell, most of these tracks stuggle to get 50 people on course. Have you seen what these guys are like, they love the social side of the game. Most clubs would love the profit from the grog, forget about the rebate. Get these guys on course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Newmarket said: If you bring 300 people with you, that buy drinks, food etc, yep i would give you a rebate. Simple basic logic. Hell, most of these tracks stuggle to get 50 people on course. Have you seen what these guys are like, they love the social side of the game. Most clubs would love the profit from the grog, forget about the rebate. Get these guys on course But they are two different things. Why don't you give them a rebate on the food and drink they buy. Or offer them a special drinks and food package. Why have NZRB (who ultimately are responsible for the betting financial side of things), pay your customers money when for NZRB, they aren't a valuable customer? So if I spend $20k with you on food and drink. And then do $1.5m on bets. Make $100k on bets. Then you give me 5% rebate? Is that how it works? How do you define a level of rebate on something that has no profit, compared to something (the food and drink), that has a profit? Edited February 11, 2019 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 If you didn't give them a rebate where would they go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: If you didn't give them a rebate where would they go? If they're winners, good on them. But don't pay them extra to stay. If they're winners, they should be happy with what they are getting. Edited February 11, 2019 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, mardigras said: If they're winners, good on them. But don't pay them extra to stay. If they're winners, they should be happy with what they are getting. What if Ted has a bad day and they are losers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What if Ted has a bad day and they are losers? I think rebates should be a commercial decision. So from an overall perspective. If they were account based and lost, then a percentage of their losses would fit in with standard business rebates in most industries (over a qualifying period). Pay rebates to losers, as you want to retain them. Pay rebates to the company buying 10000 TVs at profit making prices, so that they might do the same again. Edited February 11, 2019 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Not a stupid idea. But it would have to be set up with controls in place. Maybe Reefton acting as auditor etc. I can see the headline now - BOAY vs BGP - head to head. Ok..who's with me? BOAYS GET MORE vs BGP? 1O consecutive Saturdays then payout per share...the list below is the BGP race days...it doesn't matter that we match their total $$$..if we have a pool of (say) even 20% of their $75k, we can still go H2H ..just for the hell of it..it's all about the relative % profit and the fun of it all through a great period of summer/autumn racing here and in Oz. Thoroughbreds only, on the stated race days..we will need to sort a selector or two or five..people who know what they're doing!! (starting with Jen !!)...picking our selectors by invitation from PJs comp?? When all is said and done, if you put in $500 and lose it all, it has cost you $50 a week. There is already an account established, that can be modified for this purpose (BOAY 4 MAIJA VANCE FUND current balance nil), so deposits of $500 ($250 minimum to be in?) can be accepted immediately. I am willing to have this account that I established for charitable purposes used, and happy for it to be audited/co-signed or whatever for security/integrity purposes. Any BOAYERS want to be in on this? We've got about 10 days to get organised! 23 Feb Matamata Breeders Stks day 2 March Ellerslie Derby Day 9 March Ellerslie Auckland Cup Day 16 March Trentham Oaks / Flemington All Star Mile 23 March Tauranga Trophy ,and/or OZ 30 March Ellerslie / Awapuni Sires Produce Stks 6 April SYDNEY DAY 1 / Te Aroha Breeders Stks Day 13 April SYDNEY DAY 2 20 April Ellerslie Easter 27 April Te Rapa Travis Stks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 31 minutes ago, mardigras said: I think rebates should be a commercial decision. So from an overall perspective. If they were account based and lost, then a percentage of their losses would fit in with standard business rebates in most industries (over a qualifying period). Pay rebates to losers, as you want to retain them. Pay rebates to the company buying 10000 TVs at profit making prices, so that they might do the same again. Sadly too many over the years have thought like you, no initiative. Drinks are where the money is made, not the gambling, especially as many like myself bet mostly on aus sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Sadly too many over the years have thought like you, no initiative. Really. Can you give a quick example of just how you would offer them rebates. Let's see your initiative at work. Rates etc, what basis, etc etc. Edited February 11, 2019 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 30 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Sadly too many over the years have thought like you, no initiative. Drinks are where the money is made, not the gambling, especially as many like myself bet mostly on aus sites. But they are going to turn up anyway aren't they? Like you they also bet with an offshore agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, mardigras said: Really. Can you give a quick example of just how you would offer them rebates. Let's see your initiative at work. Rates etc, what basis, etc etc. Well, here is a quick thought. First of all the racing club. Obviously give them free entrance and a room to entertain in at no cost, make them pay reasonable prices for drinks and food. As for rebates, no reason why club and tab could not split rebate, maybe 1.5% each on turnover. Tab look after elite customers, so why not these guys as they bet on course. So $100 k turned over, gets them $3k that they have to re invest on the day, club gets money off grog and food, and a whole heap more people on course? No doubt you will pick holes in this suggestion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Beau Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 11 hours ago, mardigras said: Yep. It's like a buyer going to Harvey Norman and buying 1 million TVs for the same price Harvey Norman buy them at. Then giving that customer a rebate because of the volume (even though HN has made no money from them). And then increasing the price of the TVs to the rest of Harvey Norman's customers to recover the rebate. That’s right......someone somewhere has to pay so the boys can do what they like, so long as they aren’t getting a better ride than all the rest of us. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 40 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Well, here is a quick thought. First of all the racing club. Obviously give them free entrance and a room to entertain in at no cost, make them pay reasonable prices for drinks and food. As for rebates, no reason why club and tab could not split rebate, maybe 1.5% each on turnover. Tab look after elite customers, so why not these guys as they bet on course. So $100 k turned over, gets them $3k that they have to re invest on the day, club gets money off grog and food, and a whole heap more people on course? No doubt you will pick holes in this suggestion What I don't get is their business model has so far worked without a rebate. I don't see how a rebate improves the return to the industry. Perhaps NZRB should flick some of their marketing budget to them if they want to make more money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandpiper Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Best fluctuation for all on course punters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Newmarket said: Well, here is a quick thought. First of all the racing club. Obviously give them free entrance and a room to entertain in at no cost, make them pay reasonable prices for drinks and food. As for rebates, no reason why club and tab could not split rebate, maybe 1.5% each on turnover. Tab look after elite customers, so why not these guys as they bet on course. So $100 k turned over, gets them $3k that they have to re invest on the day, club gets money off grog and food, and a whole heap more people on course? No doubt you will pick holes in this suggestion I wouldn't pick holes if there weren't any. They could bet a lot more and you'd be up for paying the rebate. Because the model doesn't have any relationship with them actually providing the club any profit, you are quite happy to offer them a rebate where they could take money off the industry and more money than the club itself even makes from their hospitality spend. If food and drink is where the club plans to make money, why not offer them effective rebates on the food and drink. That way you cannot give them back more than they give you. I'm not suggesting rebates can't be involved. But if you offer a rebate on something that has zero relationship with your own profit, then it is open to abuse. And will be abused. Edited February 11, 2019 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooncoin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Therefore the clubs should encourage them via free facilities, entry etc. Seems a bit self defeating then to let them have rebates on their betting as ultimately the clubs pays for the loss of revenue. Agree Chief, but I suppose it will come down to each individual club and what they do or don't negotiate,as it would be coming out of their pocket.So the math for them is really important for the bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mk2_Zephyr Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Well i see at the sewage pond, that some one volunteered that a certain individual of this BGP group, scored 50 dollar tickets from the ARC and resold them to group members for 100 DOLLARS, now I don't about you but that seems like significant TAX. And of course what makes it extremely suss, is that instantly, Shorty molloy and bend over leaf sprung to K mans defence !!! I am now convinced an audit should made of these guys ... Simply stating in a random facebook post that " Its all actually about gambling, so don't blame US if it all goes toes up" really shouldn't get u off the hook. All charges and costs should be shown first, where the actual cash is stashed, and who is actually running this show as well ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooncoin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Are BGP set up and run as a punters club or a business? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mooncoin said: Are BGP set up and run as a punters club or a business? It may have evolved but was set up as a facebook group - with people putting 'tips' up. There are a number of positives. Getting people involved on a decent scale. Wouldn't call it a business although some might be trying to lead it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooncoin Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 26 minutes ago, mardigras said: It may have evolved but was set up as a facebook group - with people putting 'tips' up. There are a number of positives. Getting people involved on a decent scale. Wouldn't call it a business although some might be trying to lead it that way. Thanks Mardi, it does seem to be going that way,which makes me think there will be fees added along the way in the future! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 8 hours ago, Mk2_Zephyr said: Well i see at the sewage pond, that some one volunteered that a certain individual of this BGP group, scored 50 dollar tickets from the ARC and resold them to group members for 100 DOLLARS, now I don't about you but that seems like significant TAX. And of course what makes it extremely suss, is that instantly, Shorty molloy and bend over leaf sprung to K mans defence !!! I am now convinced an audit should made of these guys ... Simply stating in a random facebook post that " Its all actually about gambling, so don't blame US if it all goes toes up" really shouldn't get u off the hook. All charges and costs should be shown first, where the actual cash is stashed, and who is actually running this show as well ! Didnt tickets cost $100 anyway? If they are buying bulk why not? Obviously worked for club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Didnt tickets cost $100 anyway? If they are buying bulk why not? Obviously worked for club I guess and the tickets included some hospitality did it not. So the subsidisation of drinks occurred. But why increase the sweetner by giving them a rebate on their bets? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 20 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said: Alas, why are you getting your knickers in a twist over quite a good thread and commenting on something Barry b said 2 months ago? If you're not interested in the content start a thread on a topic you are interested in! Im sorry , i forgot everything must be ok to you before others can post an opinion, as for mine better late than never. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, JJ Flash said: Im sorry , i forgot everything must be ok to you before others can post an opinion, as for mine better late than never. Can you both give it a rest and focus on this topic. These little tit for tats seem to escalate in the BOAY playground and I'm now starting to find it tiresome. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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