The Te Akau Juggernaut marches on...

[Murray Fish]

a change of tack...

Experience has thought me to be rather cautious of bring to much 'cognitive bias' to the punting table, especially around any perception of 'who owns' 'who trains'. My late Dad would comment "never kick a mans dog! or "bad mouth some ones races horse!", both can later bite you!

Back to talking Te Akau,  not a stable that I often bet on, as much as it seems that their is often a lot of early smart money on their runners, fascinating to  see when the opposite when one of theirs goes on the drift, Atrai was one I had black booked, opened @6  drifted out to 11, v's big $$$ which didn't stop coming for the winner!

[Huey]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I think the key part of that sentence is they generate interest which must be good for racing.

Not when its fake

[Huey]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Are you inferring the playing field isn't level?  We have seen many instances of those YOU label battlers winning one way or another in the last couple of weeks but you haven't mentioned them.

I'm not inferring anything , because I'm still waiting to hear from you as to why they are so good for the industry?

[Chief Stipe]

39 minutes ago, Huey said:

I'm not inferring anything , because I'm still waiting to hear from you as to why they are so good for the industry?

You are telling us all that they aren't good for the industry but like most of your posts you can't substantiate your claim.  

[Huey]

12 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

You are telling us all that they aren't good for the industry but like most of your posts you can't substantiate your claim.  

again I wait for you to tell why they are so good for the industry, stop ducking and diving and explain.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

again I wait for you to tell why they are so good for the industry, stop ducking and diving and explain.

It seems to me that any horses that someone is willing to race here that is competitive at some level is good for the industry. Better horses may be of more good than average ones.

[Freda]

Neither of you are going to give an inch so I'll try and be devil's advocate; after an extra 3 hours sleep I need something to focus on on a Sunday morning...

T.A can afford to, and do, bring some beautiful horses back into the racing mix.  Horses that otherwise would be lost offshore, and possibly at a lesser cost without the competition.  So, tick for the industry and also for the breeders.

They, through their syndication model, bring in many owners that otherwise could not be part of racing at the elite level.  Tick.

They strive for excellence all the way, with the best riders that can be obtained, and with a training model that in most cases works extremely well.  The last two trainers exceptional.  Tick again.

Owners are kept informed, both at the start with clear information and along the way with regular videos and updates.  Tick.

The opportunity to race in the superior Australian environment now a reality with the setting up of the Cranbourne operation.  Tick again.

Where are the disadvantages?   perhaps the lack of real input from an owner to trainer might bother some.  It would annoy me.  But I wouldn't ever be part of things.  If I had disposable funds, the chance to have a horse in Europe with Joseph O'Brien and Go Racing I would find exciting.  But that's my choice.

The perception that T.A 'squeeze' out potential purchasers and attract clients that otherwise may be with other trainers?  possibly. But the sales ring model we now have is not the fault of T.A., rather the result of decades of mismanagement by NZTR, fuelled by breeders, to tilt the playing field to the north and for more money to be directed at the 'elite' - again, read the north.  Again, that isn't T.A's fault but they've read the room better than most.

Now the small and hobby breeder cannot compete at Karaka, their family business or passion for a few mares with their cherished foals now consigned, sadly, to Gavelhouse or facebook offerings.

The chance of returns with such modest, or lesser favoured yearlings, also much reduced so the whole scenario has changed from decades ago where anyone could go to a sale ring and pick up a potentially nice horse for bugger all, with a bit of judgment - and luck.

Entain's involvement has certainly given us hope, but despite comments from some, they don't [ yet ] run programming, handicapping, dates.  

[Freda]

1 minute ago, Freda said:

Neither of you are going to give an inch so I'll try and be devil's advocate; after an extra 3 hours sleep I need something to focus on on a Sunday morning...

T.A can afford to, and do, bring some beautiful horses back into the racing mix.  Horses that otherwise would be lost offshore, and possibly at a lesser cost without the competition.  So, tick for the industry and also for the breeders.

They, through their syndication model, bring in many owners that otherwise could not be part of racing at the elite level.  Tick.

They strive for excellence all the way, with the best riders that can be obtained, and with a training model that in most cases works extremely well.  The last two trainers exceptional.  Tick again.

Owners are kept informed, both at the start with clear information and along the way with regular videos and updates.  Tick.

The opportunity to race in the superior Australian environment now a reality with the setting up of the Cranbourne operation.  Tick again.

Where are the disadvantages?   perhaps the lack of real input from an owner to trainer might bother some.  It would annoy me.  But I wouldn't ever be part of things.  If I had disposable funds, the chance to have a horse in Europe with Joseph O'Brien and Go Racing I would find exciting.  But that's my choice.

The perception that T.A 'squeeze' out potential purchasers and attract clients that otherwise may be with other trainers?  possibly. But the sales ring model we now have is not the fault of T.A., rather the result of decades of mismanagement by NZTR, fuelled by breeders, to tilt the playing field to the north and for more money to be directed at the 'elite' - again, read the north.  Again, that isn't T.A's fault but they've read the room better than most.

Now the small and hobby breeder cannot compete at Karaka, their family business or passion for a few mares with their cherished foals now consigned, sadly, to Gavelhouse or facebook offerings.

The chance of returns with such modest, or lesser favoured yearlings, also much reduced so the whole scenario has changed from decades ago where anyone could go to a sale ring and pick up a potentially nice horse for bugger all, with a bit of judgment - and luck.

Entain's involvement has certainly given us hope, but despite comments from some, they don't [ yet ] run programming, handicapping, dates.  

And I have to add, the T.A model isn't a charity.  It makes money, not from stakes - which are incidental and go largely to the ownership groups - but from the structure of the operation.   Heaps of it.

[Chief Stipe]

33 minutes ago, Freda said:

And I have to add, the T.A model isn't a charity.  It makes money, not from stakes - which are incidental and go largely to the ownership groups - but from the structure of the operation.   Heaps of it.

My understanding is the profit from racing is small and often close to break even.  The main source of profit is the sale of horses for breeding after racing.

[Freda]

39 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

My understanding is the profit from racing is small and often close to break even.  The main source of profit is the sale of horses for breeding after racing.

Shouldn't any funds accrued from sales go back to the ownership syndicates?

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Freda said:

Shouldn't any funds accrued from sales go back to the ownership syndicates?

Te Akau make it clear in their syndicate contracts that they clip the ticket upon the sale of the horse at the end of its racing career.  The majority of Syndicators/Trainers have that clause.  A common practice amongst trainers for decades.  Time has made it more transparent and up front.