mardigras Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, Huey said: The "perception" that punters are being swayed one way from a tipping perspective but the agent may (I am not casting aspersions at anyone) know something having secured the ride for their rider that should sway their opinion also as a tipping analyst. Punter beware from someone on TV tipping horses. 5 minutes ago, Huey said: As an example , an agent that has a very popular jockey who can be a bit picky and choosy about rides is offered a number of rides , secures one based on info from trainer then goes on a tipping show and tips out something else , or an agent knows something about a ride but talks up others whilst on TV to move $ onto another horse that isn't the one they may or may not have a had a bet on, that may not happen but it certainly opens up a world of possibility. Do you not feel the same way when they interview a trainer or a jockey? Do you think they are always upfront about what they actually see as the chance of their horses? The same "perception" would have to apply to them. Other people in media also get access to inside information, journalists, race commentators (Not only jockey agents). Does the same "perception" not apply to them also. We would end up with a racing channel that had no presenters, no jockeys talking and no trainers talking. Maybe no comments outside of the commentary from the commentator. Because the "perception" of them all is that the possibility exists that everything they say has an ulterior motive. The good part of that would be we'd just get pictures (with or without commentary) - would suit many perfectly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, mardigras said: Punter beware from someone on TV tipping horses. Do you not feel the same way when they interview a trainer or a jockey? Do you think they are always upfront about what they actually see as the chance of their horses? The same "perception" would have to apply to them. Other people in media also get access to inside information, journalists, race commentators (Not only jockey agents). Does the same "perception" not apply to them also. We would end up with a racing channel that had no presenters, no jockeys talking and no trainers talking. Maybe no comments outside of the commentary from the commentator. Because the "perception" of them all is that the possibility exists that everything they say has an ulterior motive. The good part of that would be we'd just get pictures (with or without commentary) - would suit many perfectly i adopt a very effective IMS (Information Management System) for Trackside TV. It's called the MUTE button...I use it as soon as I hear these voices: Bevan Sweeney, Tony Lee, Cameron Shaw, Mark Cookson, Aidan Rodley. I will listen to: Brendon Popplewell, Steve Davis, Darryl Anderson, George Simon, Emily Bosson and others occasionally. Trackside Radio is appalling whenever Peter Earley, Mark Claydon, Cameron Shaw or Richard Bromley are hosting. The weirdest thing about this 'irritant' scenario is that I have great respect for the style and clarity and content that comes from just across the ditch.They are all professional, focused, intelligent communicators who know their stuff! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 hours ago, mardigras said: Punter beware from someone on TV tipping horses. Do you not feel the same way when they interview a trainer or a jockey? Do you think they are always upfront about what they actually see as the chance of their horses? The same "perception" would have to apply to them. Other people in media also get access to inside information, journalists, race commentators (Not only jockey agents). Does the same "perception" not apply to them also. We would end up with a racing channel that had no presenters, no jockeys talking and no trainers talking. Maybe no comments outside of the commentary from the commentator. Because the "perception" of them all is that the possibility exists that everything they say has an ulterior motive. The good part of that would be we'd just get pictures (with or without commentary) - would suit many perfectly Exactly my point. the difference being the perception. The perception is the jockey is giving the relevant info (whether that be the case or not ) directly related to his mount I would assume, whereas a trackside presenter could take a ride for their jockey and then tip or talk up other mounts that they may or may not have had the opportunity to take as ride but haven't due to info obtained with regards to the ride. I haven't heard many jockeys tipping other horses in the race that they have a ride in (with the possible exception of riding against Winx) . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Isn't a jockey understating the chance of a ride effectively the same as tipping against? Especially if they understate due to inside info they have suggesting it was likely to go better than otherwise expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 hours ago, mardigras said: Isn't a jockey understating the chance of a ride effectively the same as tipping against? Especially if they understate due to inside info they have suggesting it was likely to go better than otherwise expected. But would you expect a jockey to understate a ride or as you say tip against it? I can't recall this situation , any examples? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, Huey said: But would you expect a jockey to understate a ride or as you say tip against it? I can't recall this situation , any examples? I would expect a jockey to do that for the same reason as a jockey agent would. To improve the price for those they are wanting to assist (whether it be themselves or part of their team). And wouldn't a trainer do exactly the same thing. Understate one of their horses or suggest one of the stablemates was a better chance. That happens all the time. They're just presenters and relying on their tips should be caveat emptor. if they are selling them, then I would expect that it would be reasonable to not allow that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Hopefully, they are allowed to go for it. It helps to distort markets from actual chance. Real punters should love it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 18 hours ago, mardigras said: I would expect a jockey to do that for the same reason as a jockey agent would. To improve the price for those they are wanting to assist (whether it be themselves or part of their team). And wouldn't a trainer do exactly the same thing. Understate one of their horses or suggest one of the stablemates was a better chance. That happens all the time. They're just presenters and relying on their tips should be caveat emptor. if they are selling them, then I would expect that it would be reasonable to not allow that. Are you still here? Youre clueless when it comes to anything about INTEGRITY...or anything for that matter The best Managers have 2 or more Jockeys.... If one trainer has stipulated one requirement of his Jockey...and the other diametrically opposed... ...and the Manager takes that Inside Info...and INSIDE TRADES...where the public have non disclosure... Its INSIDER TRADING...and that's the information Racing NSW received ...and why they changed the rule If you can't understand that you're half witted 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Some people are paranoid. Most people that bet have had inside information at one time or another, or many times. Decent jurisdictions don't stop those other than jockeys from using that information themselves. Why would a jockey tell their agent the riding instructions. If it's for some form of gain, decent jurisdictions ban that from happening. That's where it should be stopped. Selling of inside information for some form of gain should be against the rules of racing (as it is elsewhere). Using it yourself to bet, no problem. Otherwise you will have a lot of participants to ban. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxie Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, Thomass said: Are you still here? Youre clueless when it comes to anything about INTEGRITY...or anything for that matter The best Managers have 2 or more Jockeys.... If one trainer has stipulated one requirement of his Jockey...and the other diametrically opposed... ...and the Manager takes that Inside Info...and INSIDE TRADES...where the public have non disclosure... Its INSIDER TRADING...and that's the information Racing NSW received ...and why they changed the rule If you can't understand that you're half witted Most trainers I know don't tell their jockeys anything until the mounting yard. Then it is only if the jockey is unfamiliar with the horse and it's preferred style of racing. A trainer wouldn't tell an agent didily squat. For a start most of them wouldn't have a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 On 14/12/2018 at 10:38 AM, mardigras said: Some people are paranoid. Most people that bet have had inside information at one time or another, or many times. Decent jurisdictions don't stop those other than jockeys from using that information themselves. Why would a jockey tell their agent the riding instructions. If it's for some form of gain, decent jurisdictions ban that from happening. That's where it should be stopped. Selling of inside information for some form of gain should be against the rules of racing (as it is elsewhere). Using it yourself to bet, no problem. Otherwise you will have a lot of participants to ban. Super confirmation stuff yesterday from Alyssa Collett and what actually happens with these punting Agents ...direct comment from her brother...who can't do without an agent The Agent often tells his 2/3 Jockeys...how the horse should be ridden after reviewing racing patterns...and what the speed maps show this race MASSIVE problem right there... and open to the Agent's betting manipulation.... ...which is why they've been banned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Heck, now the agent is telling the jockeys how to ride a horse, who cares what the trainer might want. Talk about paranoia. And I expect they've been banned due to selling inside information - which should be against the racing rules, as it is elsewhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Big difference between having and using inside info and selling it, for mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, curious said: Big difference between having and using inside info and selling it, for mine. Definitely. They sell it because they've come to realise that there is no material value in it elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Selling useless info? Thommo would probably buy that if he can't get it for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 16, 2018 Author Share Posted December 16, 2018 Unless they're control freaks like the Hawkes... ...many trainers say " I've left it to the Jock...they're the pros" Yea....they then listen to their agent...besides they're far too busy riding/track work/living/buying fast cars... ...to be doing their own stuff ...why not listen to their agent...who knows everthing... ...where the agent perceivedly punt the ones they've decided to ride positively? ..wher 'perception' is often everything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, curious said: Selling useless info? Thommo would probably buy that if he can't get it for free. For sure. They sell it to people like Thomass. There's enough people like that to do well out if it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I could get into that. Selling useless info might be more profitable than punting if there's that many suckers around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 One of the biggest non jackpot collects in NZ racing was the multis at Ellerslie netting about $800,000. The word is the selections came from a jockey agent. One of the jockeys successfull that day got a sizeable 5 figure sling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Centaur said: One of the biggest non jackpot collects in NZ racing was the multis at Ellerslie netting about $800,000. The word is the selections came from a jockey agent. One of the jockeys successfull that day got a sizeable 5 figure sling. Sounds a lot like race fixing or simply good selections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, mardigras said: Sounds a lot like race fixing or simply good selections. More like the jockey busted his guts to win the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, The Centaur said: One of the biggest non jackpot collects in NZ racing was the multis at Ellerslie netting about $800,000. The word is the selections came from a jockey agent. One of the jockeys successfull that day got a sizeable 5 figure sling. Was that the bloke on the Shore...@1M before they restricted wins to 500K Thats Fellas partner was VERY happy...and he could basically watch the neddys without restriction for...life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Centaur said: More like the jockey busted his guts to win the last. When was this TC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VC! Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 56 minutes ago, mardigras said: When was this TC? It was December 2009 Tahana Strike won the last leg of a 6 leg multi he had 57 $50 multis $2850 I heard it was the goat AL could be wrong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/3199795/Punter-bags-second-big-payout-at-Ellerslie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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