latest HRNZ 2 year old bonus scheme

[the galah]

I've just read the latest announcement about a new 2 year old bonus scheme from brad steele,whom it says is the architect behind the scheme.

I have to admit,i had to read the press release several times to get my head around it. 

it seemingly is targeting rewarding people who buy yearlings by certain sires,who have had 3 or less crops so far in nz,then to meet the criteria the pruchasers are to syndicate the horses and have a certain % of owners under age 40 involved.

Then you line the horse up twice in 2026 and they will pay the owners $4000 and the trainer $1000.

You can get around the stallion criteria ,to earn the $5000 for starting twice as a two year old,by apparently buying any yearling at the sales and giving it to a non winning group 1 trainer and getting them to line up the horse twice as a 2 year old.

Theres other bonuses of $50,000 that will be paid to the first horse home in the sales final races,who meets certain criteria.

What do i think? 

well to me its a hair brained scheme thought up by people who i've previously referred to as not very clever. 

This latest announcement does nothing to change that,in fact it just reinforces how i currently think.

I know only a dozen or so owners to speak to,but i can't think of one that would qualify if the scheme was being run this season.

Again i ask,what is this obsession HRNZ and brad steele has with 2 year old racing?

Why are the owners,trainers,breeders of 2 year olds more important than all the owners,trainers,breeders of 3 year old and older horses in training.

i would guess that if you were to say which part of the industry provides the worst returns profit wise,using the formula stakes,bonuses funded v turnover.

surely it would be 2 year old racing ,yet thats what HRNZ want to have more of.

Are these people stupid or what?

Edited Monday at 05:07 AM by the galah

[mikeynz]

26 minutes ago, the galah said:

I've just read the latest announcement about a new 2 year old bonus scheme from brad steele,whom it says is the architect behind the scheme.

I have to admit,i had to read the press release several times to get my head around it. 

it seemingly is targeting rewarding people who buy yearlings by certain sires,who have had 3 or less crops so far in nz,then to meet the criteria the pruchasers are to syndicate the horses and have a certain % of owners under age 40 involved.

Then you line the horse up twice in 2026 and they will pay the owners $4000 and the trainer $1000.

You can get around the stallion criteria ,to earn the $5000 for starting twice as a two year old,by apparently buying any yearling at the sales and giving it to a non winning group 1 trainer and getting them to line up the horse twice as a 2 year old.

Theres other bonuses of $50,000 that will be paid to the first horse home in the sales final races,who meets certain criteria.

What do i think? 

well to me its a hair brained scheme thought up by people who i've previously referred to as not very clever. 

This latest announcement does nothing to change that,in fact it just reinforces how i currently think.

I know only a dozen or so owners to speak to,but i can't think of one that would qualify if the scheme was being run this season.

Again i ask,what is this obsession HRNZ and brad steele has with 2 year old racing?

Why are the owners,trainers,breeders of 2 year olds more important than all the owners,trainers,breeders of 3 year old and older horses in training.

i would guess that if you were to say which part of the industry provides the worst returns profit wise,using the formula stakes,bonuses funded v turnover.

surely it would be 2 year old racing ,yet thats what HRNZ want to have more of.

Are these people stupid or what?

Does Mr Steele own a lot of horses ,?

Does he have ownership of some in the Norrh Island.?

[Brodie]

Brad Steele came from Australia highly qualified apparently?

We will have to wait and see if chucking this money around is going to have positive effects in the next few years!

Interesting concept from Mr Steele the way he is trying to get under 40s into ownership.

 

 

[the galah]

4 hours ago, mikeynz said:

Does Mr Steele own a lot of horses ,?

Does he have ownership of some in the Norrh Island.?

The people i know,that have spent a lifetime breeding,owning or training horses that don't go through the sales,have been sent a very clear message.

Brad steele takes your participation for granted.Your not his focus. After all that money you put into the industry ,your not a priority,your seen as a second class citizen. 

Thats so obvious,when you consider some of the conditions imposed on certain qualifying criterias,even if the horse meets the number 1 criteria of being sold at the sales.

1)Why does his scheme reward syndicates and not reward individuals or say a husband and wife.....

2)why does his scheme specify 30% of ownership has to be under the age of 40 to qualify.....

3)why reward only horses purchased at the sales.

4) why is he giving preferential treatment to the trainers who have not trained a group one winner,thusdiscriminating against trainers who have.

5)why have the sires with 3 or less crops being given preferential treatment.

6)why have they capped the $5000 giveaway for starting just twice as a 2 year old to the first 90 horses that qualify.

7)why are owners,breeders/trainers of these sale horses considered of greater importance than the owners of 3 year olds and above.

8)why are some owners being given preferential treatment because they have not previously owned a horse.

why,why.why,i could go on.

Like i have said. i believe the scheme is hair brained.

I was talking to someone tonight whos bred  horses over the years and raced them with her husband.

she told me to go read the hrnz press release.

Her comment was just read it.I've told you, you should get out of the sport as they don't cater for people like you or i anymore.

After reading the press release,i agree.

 

Edited Monday at 10:33 AM by the galah

[Taku Umanga]

This is Nelli's post from the other channel - some good points made.

 

"The launch of NextGen today demonstrates yet again more half-baked ideas even though the intentions are admirable.  

1) I can see the rationale of restricting the scheme to sale horses, since NZB Standardbreds are major sponsors, but why restrict it to progeny of stallions in their 1st 3 seasons in NZ? For example, if you are after a trotter, this restricts you to a choice of just 22 horses with half by expensive stallions (a big windfall for the sellers). 

2) Why the G1 restriction on the trainers when I think what they intend is to promote young trainers. This means 21 year old Zev Meredith in his first year of training is ruled out (Tom Bamford also) but very successful 80+ year old Luk Chin is eligible (not that he ever needs to buy a yearling with his great breed).

3) The alternative option is having a partnership of at least 4 owners with 30+% of the people under 40 years old and who have never owned a horse before. This of course is easily achieved by adding a couple of grandchildren on the ownership papers. A nice thing to do but will it mean more owners racing more horses in the future?"

[the galah]

6 hours ago, Taku Umanga said:

This is Nelli's post from the other channel - some good points made.

 

"The launch of NextGen today demonstrates yet again more half-baked ideas even though the intentions are admirable.  

1) I can see the rationale of restricting the scheme to sale horses, since NZB Standardbreds are major sponsors, but why restrict it to progeny of stallions in their 1st 3 seasons in NZ? For example, if you are after a trotter, this restricts you to a choice of just 22 horses with half by expensive stallions (a big windfall for the sellers). 

2) Why the G1 restriction on the trainers when I think what they intend is to promote young trainers. This means 21 year old Zev Meredith in his first year of training is ruled out (Tom Bamford also) but very successful 80+ year old Luk Chin is eligible (not that he ever needs to buy a yearling with his great breed).

3) The alternative option is having a partnership of at least 4 owners with 30+% of the people under 40 years old and who have never owned a horse before. This of course is easily achieved by adding a couple of grandchildren on the ownership papers. A nice thing to do but will it mean more owners racing more horses in the future?"

As i mentioned earlier,the original press release said you can get around the stallion requirement by meeting the criteria set for the trainers or owners.

Its confusing given yearlings sold at the sales by the same sire,will sometimes be eligible for the bonuses and sometimes not. 

I've read the press release quite a few times and my take is its still going to benefit most the likes of the breckons, the purdons and the dunns most.They are the trainers who buy the most horses from the sales and syndicate them out. All they have to do is include 30% of their syndicate under the age of 40.Now that may be easier said than done,but you would think mr steele would have spoken to the likes of the breckons,as they are who he likes to take care of.

That press release really is all about confusing people. I can't imagine they set out to do that,but heres an example of confusion.

the press release says"s how can you tell if a horse at the sales is next gen eligible...Those horses will have a special sticker on them and it will be announced when they go through the sales ring."

.....But then  you have to ask yourself,HRNZ in the same press statement said all horses sold through the sales can be next gen eligible..it really just depends on what happens after the sales as far as who trains, or syndicating to owners of the right age.

So in theory,given all horses could potentially be eligible, not sure why are they putting special stickers on some and not others.thats my reading of the press release anyway.

[the galah]

21 minutes ago, the galah said:

As i mentioned earlier,the original press release said you can get around the stallion requirement by meeting the criteria set for the trainers or owners.

Its confusing given yearlings sold at the sales by the same sire,will sometimes be eligible for the bonuses and sometimes not. 

I've read the press release quite a few times and my take is its still going to benefit most the likes of the breckons, the purdons and the dunns most.They are the trainers who buy the most horses from the sales and syndicate them out. All they have to do is include 30% of their syndicate under the age of 40.Now that may be easier said than done,but you would think mr steele would have spoken to the likes of the breckons,as they are who he likes to take care of.

That press release really is all about confusing people. I can't imagine they set out to do that,but heres an example of confusion.

the press release says"s how can you tell if a horse at the sales is next gen eligible...Those horses will have a special sticker on them and it will be announced when they go through the sales ring."

.....But then  you have to ask yourself,HRNZ in the same press statement said all horses sold through the sales can be next gen eligible..it really just depends on what happens after the sales as far as who trains, or syndicating to owners of the right age.

So in theory,given all horses could potentially be eligible, not sure why are they putting special stickers on some and not others.thats my reading of the press release anyway.

Having given the whole subject some thought,i realised today i've reached the point where i've said what i think and that i'm ready to have a mindset of past caring about things like this anymore.Its all a bit like groundhog day.I think i should be spending our time and money focusing on something different. So this will be my last comment.

Edited yesterday at 02:56 AM by the galah

[Brodie]

Galah, great that you express your opinion.

Far too many people just do not express their opinion nowadays, and that is the problem a lot of the time with these questionable decisions that are being made currently.

Not too sure how long it took Brad Steele to come up with this seemingly complicated system where preference is going to be given to some over others!

So if you are 41 years old you are not as wanted as a new owner as someone who is 39?
The industry is going through a time where the correct decisions are paramount for NZ to continue to have a harness racing future.

Personally not that confident that these bonuses are what the industry needs?

What they need without doubt is more punters coming through and without more of them we are in trouble.

[TAB For Ever]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

As i mentioned earlier,the original press release said you can get around the stallion requirement by meeting the criteria set for the trainers or owners.

Its confusing given yearlings sold at the sales by the same sire,will sometimes be eligible for the bonuses and sometimes not. 

I've read the press release quite a few times and my take is its still going to benefit most the likes of the breckons, the purdons and the dunns most.They are the trainers who buy the most horses from the sales and syndicate them out. All they have to do is include 30% of their syndicate under the age of 40.Now that may be easier said than done,but you would think mr steele would have spoken to the likes of the breckons,as they are who he likes to take care of.

That press release really is all about confusing people. I can't imagine they set out to do that,but heres an example of confusion.

the press release says"s how can you tell if a horse at the sales is next gen eligible...Those horses will have a special sticker on them and it will be announced when they go through the sales ring."

.....But then  you have to ask yourself,HRNZ in the same press statement said all horses sold through the sales can be next gen eligible..it really just depends on what happens after the sales as far as who trains, or syndicating to owners of the right age.

So in theory,given all horses could potentially be eligible, not sure why are they putting special stickers on some and not others.thats my reading of the press release anyway.

You may have read it many times , but sadly you are summarising the message of conditions /eligibility etc incorrectly.

As you seem very negative on many things Harness it is a great thing for these pages if you refrain from commenting on things you neither understand how they work and how they fit into the wider picture and the current attempts to futureproof or reignite the Harness scene in NZ.

I'm the first to admit that this may not be the gamechanger or silver bullet that some think every promotion/bonus etc should instantly produce.

Firstly stop knocking the new CEO.......he's only been here 5 x minutes !

Secondly these  recent promotions are Entain driven and I think it admirable that HRNZ get behind them and sponsors such as NZB also think they worth a shot !

HRNZ couldn't just hope to do same thing and expect different results.

Personally I saw as Harnesses 3 x big challenges as being ...lack of breeding horses , these horses racing in NZ and lack of betting cos of age of punter ....young peoples indifference to all 3 x challenges.

This next gen 'bonus' is a positive way to solve some of the above and improve things.

Personally I like it and already I'm signing up ....The press Release is well explained on one small poster.......I'm heading off to an annual job in 5 mins , harnessing up the Reindeer ,and getting into costume and make-up ! 

Ho-ho -ho 

In the meantime no wild stabs in dark as how the Next Gen works and what people and horses are excluded......briefly ALL trainers can be involved in next gen , even the two recent young kids who trained Group 1 winners and Dr Luc and Big Baz and the Dunn team ! All horses can race in the big 3 x Million races ,but only those by Next Gen sires bought at NZB sales can earn the bonuses. 

Its all about 2 year olds...........get involved !!!!!

 

[thrillsnspills]

Correct me if I'm wrong but how is this going to help when ruffly only 25% of our horses are sold at the yearling sales the rest are bred by mums and dads owner breeders, factor in some stallions don't qualify then its guaranteed to fail.  Mentioned in the recent breeders mag one well known breeder use to bred 50 now breeds 6 as costs in every direction has gone north. I only bred one this year and wont breed again.

[the galah]

Tabforever,you say you don't think i should comment, saying i don't understand things,then you go on to criticise what i have said.

This,after me not long prior saying i would not comment anymore. 

So you were going to get your wish,no more mr negative galah,but effectively you have knowingly,or at least should have, provoked me into replying. 

But since you have poked the stick at me,heres what i think about the comments you made about my earlier posts.

3 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

You may have read it many times , but sadly you are summarising the message of conditions /eligibility etc incorrectly.

In the meantime no wild stabs in dark as how the Next Gen works and what people and horses are excluded......briefly ALL trainers can be involved in next gen , even the two recent young kids who trained Group 1 winners and Dr Luc and Big Baz and the Dunn team ! All horses can race in the big 3 x Million races ,but only those by Next Gen sires bought at NZB sales can earn the bonuses. 

 

 

You call me incorrect.,so have you read the press release?

Did you not click and download the information flyer like it says to do in their press release.

it says this

"There are 3 ways to get involved and be eligible for exclusive next gen bonuses and rewards

1)join a next gen ownership group   OR

2)race a horse with a next gen trainer   OR

3)race a next gen sired horse."

eligible horses must be purchased at the 2025 nz standardbred national yearling sales.

Now Einstein,

please tell me what the definition of OR is?

If that went over your head,then did you not read question 7 in the press release.

It also says

"7)how does the eligibilty work to get the harness million bonus...You have to meet two of the criteria. 1)you must buy a yearling from the nzb 2025 sales THEN 2)meet one of the criteria either through the next gen ownership group OR by using a non grooup 1 winning trainer OR by purchasing a yearling by next gen sire."

Maybe you should do your home work before suggesting i'm stupid.

3 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

As you seem very negative on many things Harness it is a great thing for these pages if you refrain from commenting on things you neither understand how they work and how they fit into the wider picture and the current attempts to futureproof or reignite the Harness scene in NZ.

 

 I know why i said earlier i would give up commenting on harness racing. It is because i say what i think,and in my opinion so many negative impacting decisions are being made, what i call stupid decsions being made. And i'm tired of writing negative things ,and that why i said i wouldn't comment anymore..

Obviously that one went throught to the keeper with you. if there was going to be a next time,i would spell it out better  for you,,but there won't be..

actually,I've always been happy to reply to your posts or posts from others who don't agree with me,i have no probblem whatsoever in you thinking what you think about my posts,but like i have said and i thought inferred,i have become tired of my own posts having to be negative all the time,so i want to move on from the negativity i see in discussing much of what is going on in harness racing.

3 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 

Firstly stop knocking the new CEO.......he's only been here 5 x minutes !

 

 

Here i was thinking the press release from HRNZ back in june ,saying mr steele started on 1 july,(almost 6 months ago),was accurate.

had i known he had only been there 5 minutes i would have cut him some slack .

Tell me,if you think someone is making stupid decisions,do you just say,hell hes only been there 6 months,he'll improve or do you just give an honest opinion on a forum where opinions are given.

Tabforever,you may well think hes doing a good job,personally i think hes not very clever and i say so. As i would if i spoke to him,not that i have. But hey,he may turn things around,i hope he does,butgoing by his many public statements and press releases i can't see it happening myself.

3 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

......I'm heading off to an annual job in 5 mins , harnessing up the Reindeer ,and getting into costume and make-up ! 

Ho-ho -ho 

 

I

I  look forward to you coming to vist.

I will makes sure our house is nice and warm for you when you arrive.

Just tell me what time you will be coming down our chimney,and i will light the fire.

Edited yesterday at 07:41 AM by the galah

[Brodie]

3 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

You may have read it many times , but sadly you are summarising the message of conditions /eligibility etc incorrectly.

As you seem very negative on many things Harness it is a great thing for these pages if you refrain from commenting on things you neither understand how they work and how they fit into the wider picture and the current attempts to futureproof or reignite the Harness scene in NZ.

I'm the first to admit that this may not be the gamechanger or silver bullet that some think every promotion/bonus etc should instantly produce.

Firstly stop knocking the new CEO.......he's only been here 5 x minutes !

Secondly these  recent promotions are Entain driven and I think it admirable that HRNZ get behind them and sponsors such as NZB also think they worth a shot !

HRNZ couldn't just hope to do same thing and expect different results.

Personally I saw as Harnesses 3 x big challenges as being ...lack of breeding horses , these horses racing in NZ and lack of betting cos of age of punter ....young peoples indifference to all 3 x challenges.

This next gen 'bonus' is a positive way to solve some of the above and improve things.

Personally I like it and already I'm signing up ....The press Release is well explained on one small poster.......I'm heading off to an annual job in 5 mins , harnessing up the Reindeer ,and getting into costume and make-up ! 

Ho-ho -ho 

In the meantime no wild stabs in dark as how the Next Gen works and what people and horses are excluded......briefly ALL trainers can be involved in next gen , even the two recent young kids who trained Group 1 winners and Dr Luc and Big Baz and the Dunn team ! All horses can race in the big 3 x Million races ,but only those by Next Gen sires bought at NZB sales can earn the bonuses. 

Its all about 2 year olds...........get involved !!!!!

 

TAB, great that you post your opinion, and that is what we need, people posting their thoughts!

Firstly Galah and myself may well post things that might be seen as being negative but they are always made with good intentions.

 Posting our opinions is what we need more of and you may think that they are negative when in fact had you thought that they may well be the truth??

Personally speaking and I believe that there have been many very stupid and unsuccessful decisions made by several people that has severely hindered progress for harness racing!

Are we not allowed to comment about what is happening in harness racing on a public forum BOAY?

Whether harness racing survives dies not ultimately affect myself as I am not reliant on it whatsoever to make a living!

I believe that yes they are trying to make things happen and make harness racing once again very popular.

Hopefully this will be achieved and it will thrive, but does this new bonus system that Brad Steele has put forward possibly create  divisiveness?

Anyway time will tell, I believe that they should be prioritising trying to bring in new punters to harness racing as I can guarantee that without new ones coming through, you might as well turn out the lights.

Without the profits from the TAB you havent got decent stake money and obviously everything will go downhill.

Entain or whoever owns the NZ TAB in 3 years time is not going to be continuing to chuck money at it!

Brodie on the money, whether you like it or not?

Edited yesterday at 07:55 AM by Brodie

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

TAB, great that you post your opinion, and that is what we need, people posting their thoughts!

Firstly Galah and myself may well post things that might be seen as being negative but they are always made with good intentions.

 Posting our opinions is what we need more of and you may think that they are negative when in fact had you thought that they may well be the truth??

Personally speaking and I believe that there have been many very stupid and unsuccessful decisions made by several people that has severely hindered progress for harness racing!

Are we not allowed to comment about what is happening in harness racing on a public forum BOAY?

Whether harness racing survives dies not ultimately affect myself as I am not reliant on it whatsoever to make a living!

I believe that yes they are trying to make things happen and make harness racing once again very popular.

Hopefully this will be achieved and it will thrive, but does this new bonus system that Brad Steele has put forward possibly create  divisiveness?

Anyway time will tell, I believe that they should be prioritising trying to bring in new punters to harness racing as I can guarantee that without new ones coming through, you might as well turn out the lights.

Without the profits from the TAB you havent got decent stake money and obviously everything will go downhill.

Entain or whoever owns the NZ TAB in 3 years time is not going to be continuing to chuck money at it!

Brodie on the money, whether you like it or not?

Like you say brodie,Truthful comments can be both negative or positive. Why do some people only want to hear the positive truths? 

Tabforever is actually focusing on the negative himself,instead of acknowledging there regularly have been ideas expressed on how to improve the sport or drive turnover or participation..

People like tabforever dismiss comments he thinks are negative as being given by keyboard warriors.

we all know comments made on social media are  a reflection of whats going on inpeoples lives,whether it be in racing or in their lives outside racing,.All that can have a ripple effect sometimes on what people post.But racing is a big part of many lives,especially for many of those who comment on public forums about it.

But,i think tabforever makes assumptions. Its what we all do.Whether hes right or not,or what he thinks i should or shouldn't do,i take no notice of.

What i can say is,i help someone train a couple of horses each day. We use the money from that to pay for the care of our horses,which we see every day and which we enjoy interacting with.We see our horses as good for the mind and the soul,but of course there is a financial burden that comes with that. Will we ever breed again from our mares,probably not. In the back of your mind you want to,you say one day,but you realise that your not being realistic. Whether it be finacial,age,health are some factors. But how you perceive your type are being treated or valued by the industry,of course is a significant factor.

When you talk to others ,you generally find they are saying and thinking the same thing.

No ones looking for sympathy,its just the way things are. Its sad that industry leadership  do  more to encourage some sectors than others. Why can't they all be treated the same.But thats life. 

I also feel i have knowledge of the gambling side of the imdustry. Many of the things i comment on are things that have  impacted us personally during our participation in the sport, or as relates to the gambling side of things.

But ,its almost christmas day and the wifes not happy i'm still typing on bit of a yarn. I've told her,honey, i'm trying to give it up.She says try harder. .

Edited yesterday at 09:55 AM by the galah

[thrillsnspills]

What the industry has not got right is looking after the home hobbyists owner trainer breeder these people are already in the game they just need help most of us have property mortgage free homes and a small amount to spend on the sport come hobby, The 40 age group don't have this as they are struggling with rising cost on the home front and very little to non to spend on a wing and prayer race horse. What grinds my gears is why the trotter is give way less in returns, the costs and time taken can be more and have more numbers to the races at times. We all know the old saying if you don't change nothing will change,I feel you are far better off helping the ones that you have than casting the net to try and catch something that's not there.Have a coffee card mentality the more times you race you get a bonus this will help in many ways horse races more and the hobby breeder come owner trainer might just breed again.This group will keep your sport alive.