Chief Stipe Posted 14 hours ago Share Posted 14 hours ago 23 minutes ago, curious said: Did he breach the current whip rules? Why does it matter? The principle is the same regardless. What rule date are you working by? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 14 hours ago Share Posted 14 hours ago 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why does it matter? The principle is the same regardless. What rule date are you working by? The current rules are the strictest we've had here, if still largely ineffective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 14 hours ago Share Posted 14 hours ago 12 hours ago, Wingman said: Why did you lock then unlock? To give @Thomass 's milk enough time to get hot enough to add to his Horlicks given it was his bed time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 14 hours ago Share Posted 14 hours ago 9 minutes ago, curious said: The current rules are the strictest we've had here, if still largely ineffective. From what date? Regardless rules are rules aren't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingman Posted 13 hours ago Share Posted 13 hours ago Just to add to what I posted earlier I am fairly sure Kelly Myers lost her whip well before the 200m on Titicaca in the Remutaka AND STILL WON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 10 hours ago Share Posted 10 hours ago 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: From what date? Regardless rules are rules aren't they? 1 September 2021 for the rules. Penalties were updated last year though. Yes. Rules are rules, if breaches are enforced. I don't recall CWJ having any major issues with the rules prior to that in recent years. Did he, as you inferred? I can 't recall him ever taking his hands off the reins on one of mine though it's hard to tell with a left-hander without looking at the head on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 10 hours ago Share Posted 10 hours ago 3 hours ago, Wingman said: Just to add to what I posted earlier I am fairly sure Kelly Myers lost her whip well before the 200m on Titicaca in the Remutaka AND STILL WON. Correct. TITICACA (K Myers) - Rider dropped her whip near the 350 metres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 9 hours ago Share Posted 9 hours ago 4 hours ago, Wingman said: Why did you lock then unlock? Answer because it is like an atheist and a Christian going head to head in a debate. Neither of you are going to win and but at some point you both reluctantly agree on some vague point then start the same shit fight on a different piece of ground. The whips are softer, the rules tougher than they used to be so right there is a concession to the anti whip people but to say there shall be no whip when dealing with animals combined with the competitive element is nonsense. The real issue is the weak administrator's who come up with half baked rules and then quarter enforce. The reality is that most horses that are in contention are obviously so, once into the straight. Why do you need to whip them in the last 200m when they are trying? My opinion is that if a jockey wants the horse to try harder or press 'accelerate' (if they indeed can ) then the time for that is between the 400m and 200m. After that no whip. That also means a lot less bad press because there are no 'whips a crackin' the last 200m. I agree. Assuming the no strikes on the flank rule comes in in due course, it is only the last 200 that remains a significant problem. The jumps racing review identified a similar issue. "Even those who supported the continuation of jumps identified a concern about use of the whip during the races, especially at the end of the races after the last jump." So, I don't think that it's just Thomas and I that notice as has been suggested here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago 7 hours ago, curious said: The jumps racing review identified a similar issue. "Even those who supported the continuation of jumps identified a concern about use of the whip during the races, especially at the end of the races after the last jump." So, I don't think that it's just Thomas and I that notice as has been suggested here. @curious you disappoint me. There is a difference when a horse that has just gone nearly 4,000m over numerous jumps on a heavy track and barely makes it over the last jump is whipped to maintain its stakes or dividend bearing place when it is stuffed compared to one in a winning position with 200m to run and has started to loaf around like a goon. The fact you confound your argument so often convinces me you are struggling to gain support for it WITHIN racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago 8 hours ago, curious said: 1 September 2021 for the rules. Penalties were updated last year though. Yes. Rules are rules, if breaches are enforced. I don't recall CWJ having any major issues with the rules prior to that in recent years. Did he, as you inferred? I can 't recall him ever taking his hands off the reins on one of mine though it's hard to tell with a left-hander without looking at the head on. Why differentiate now between minor and major when the basis of you main argument is to ban the whip altogether. Hypocriscy abounds!! I counted 6 violations of the whip rules (which @Thomass would describe as blatant cheating) since 1 September 2021!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago 11 hours ago, Wingman said: Just to add to what I posted earlier I am fairly sure Kelly Myers lost her whip well before the 200m on Titicaca in the Remutaka AND STILL WON. But if Titicaca had been beaten a nose as an owner would you have been impressed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 1 hour ago Share Posted 1 hour ago 57 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I counted 6 violations of the whip rules (which @Thomass would describe as blatant cheating) since 1 September 2021!!!! OK. Was he ever suspended under the whip rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 1 hour ago Share Posted 1 hour ago 5 minutes ago, curious said: OK. Was he ever suspended under the whip rules? Oh. I just looked. He was and once when winning on my horse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted 1 hour ago Author Share Posted 1 hour ago 12 hours ago, Wingman said: Why did you lock then unlock? Answer because it is like an atheist and a Christian going head to head in a debate. Neither of you are going to win and but at some point you both reluctantly agree on some vague point then start the same shit fight on a different piece of ground. The whips are softer, the rules tougher than they used to be so right there is a concession to the anti whip people but to say there shall be no whip when dealing with animals combined with the competitive element is nonsense. The real issue is the weak administrator's who come up with half baked rules and then quarter enforce. The reality is that most horses that are in contention are obviously so, once into the straight. Why do you need to whip them in the last 200m when they are trying? My opinion is that if a jockey wants the horse to try harder or press 'accelerate' (if they indeed can ) then the time for that is between the 400m and 200m. After that no whip. That also means a lot less bad press because there are no 'whips a crackin' the last 200m. You raise some excellent points...very hard to read with no para's though! Trumpy, Elon & Zacky would be aghast at the locking down of threads here to be fear As for the 'soft' whips' did you read the peer reviewed research by a vet from Sydney Uni that we posted? In the majority of whip strikes the non padded polymer section made contact, often on the highly sensitive flank Why noy pad the whip from handle to tip then? Because trainers/owners/jockeys still feel the need to keep that pain punishment available to them that's why I'm betting Shaun told Stotty 'he's a lazy horse" nek minute Stotty's corkscrewing out of the saddle to produce as much pain as he can muster flank, ass, flank with illegal over the shoulder punishment Shaun needs to make a choice Does he want the whip banned as he said...or does he want to keep winning at all costs and keep Russ Warwick's owner Hardly Normal happy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 57 minutes ago Share Posted 57 minutes ago 13 minutes ago, curious said: Oh. I just looked. He was and once when winning on my horse! Hand your stake back as a matter of principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 52 minutes ago Share Posted 52 minutes ago 13 minutes ago, Thomass said: Trumpy, Elon & Zacky would be aghast at the locking down of threads here to be fear You are quite welcome to post your wacky obsessions on other social media however I see you have given up using X. Lack of customer interaction perchance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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