Thomass Posted Monday at 12:09 AM Author Share Posted Monday at 12:09 AM (edited) Not only a farcical race but farcically run as well! So NZTR/ATR got together and 'arranged' this farce apparently If O needed the race so badly just arrange a trial/hard hit out just like the soft az racel it turned out to be Australian Stewards would've been all over this 'Gryllsy, why didn't you kick up at the 800M when you were 3 lengths directly behind the leader on a very soft pace FFS" Gryllsy 'I was told to just give her an easy un for a next up effort...after all I'm not going to f up the 'set up' in case I get the drag for the REAL race coming up" If NZTR/ATR can waste 65K precious prize money like this they deserve everything that's going to come to them when this largesse is over Edited Monday at 12:10 AM by Thomass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Monday at 12:52 AM Share Posted Monday at 12:52 AM 19 minutes ago, Thomass said: 'Gryllsy, why didn't you kick up at the 800M when you were 3 lengths directly behind the leader on a very soft pace FFS" What would that have achieved? He wouldn't have got under the leader until well up the straight and the leader was dictating the slow pace. Would have been better in a small field to have pulled back to last and made a run on the home turn and at least made it a longer sprint home for the four of them. 39 minutes ago, Thomass said: Gryllsy 'I was told to just give her an easy un for a next up effort...after all I'm not going to f up the 'set up' in case I get the drag for the REAL race coming up" Seeing the Roger James interview after the race I think he was genuinely disappointed in the effort and he was searching for something positive to say or rather excuses. But as you know @Thomass weight stops trains and the 60kg is a fair amount of lead to cart around! 42 minutes ago, Thomass said: If NZTR/ATR can waste 65K precious prize money like this they deserve everything that's going to come to them when this largesse is over Hardly a waste. I'm sure the first two placegetters are very happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted Monday at 01:43 AM Author Share Posted Monday at 01:43 AM A TOTAL waste of industry funds As Lance O'Sullivan used to say " With higher weighted horses, I tried to keep them handy as big weights tended to anchor them down with the resultant lack of acceleration" #whathesaid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Monday at 02:10 AM Share Posted Monday at 02:10 AM 24 minutes ago, Thomass said: " With higher weighted horses, I tried to keep them handy as big weights tended to anchor them down with the resultant lack of acceleration" Two lengths off the leader is pretty handy!! In my opinion Grylls should have hooked back and improved wide. But there aren't many doing that at the moment at Ellerslie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted Monday at 02:21 AM Author Share Posted Monday at 02:21 AM She was THREE lengths off the lead at the 800M Punter's had the ABSOLUTE right to expect Grylls to kick up behind the leader to be handy on the turn... off a slow pace Pulling back would've made it even more impossible from 4/5 lengths behind the leader on the turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted Monday at 02:33 AM Share Posted Monday at 02:33 AM 6 minutes ago, Thomass said: She was THREE lengths off the lead at the 800M Punter's had the ABSOLUTE right to expect Grylls to kick up behind the leader to be handy on the turn... off a slow pace Pulling back would've made it even more impossible from 4/5 lengths behind the leader on the turn Uh? So Grylls hunts Orhestral up 2 lengths at the 800m to trail the leader closer. The leader is stacking them in a sit sprint what is Grylls going to do next? Wait for luck while losing momentum? No if he had hooked back and started to go round them at say the 600m at worst he'd be 4 wide but with clear air and will have put the mares staying ability into play. Although obviously not apparent in race 1 in later races the winners were trucking down the centre of the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted Monday at 03:28 AM Share Posted Monday at 03:28 AM Don't know how you blokes are struggling with this race so much 😎. these gallopers all seem 'very finicky' about what distance they race over . There were 4 nice horses racing over 1400m. At 1400m Orchestral 2 starts for just one x 2nd placing, Shamus with 8 starts for 4 wins, Acquarello 4 starts for a win and a 2nd, Pour the Wine 2 starts for one x 2nd placing at 1400. Shamus all day looks the winner then . get ya money on. looks a special 💰. 🏇😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted Monday at 05:14 AM Share Posted Monday at 05:14 AM 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: But as you know @Thomass weight stops trains and the 60kg is a fair amount of lead to cart around! ORCHESTRAL (C Grylls) - Slow to begin. When questioned, the rider advised that the mare had been unsuited by the pace of the race and that he had been satisfied with the performance. Underwent a post-race veterinary examination which did not reveal any abnormality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted Monday at 10:39 AM Share Posted Monday at 10:39 AM For what it's worth , prior to the race , next to mounting yard I spoke to 6x folk who follow racing closely including a form analyst ,jockeys agent and a studmaster and not one thought or expected Orchestral to win and Acquarello was the favoured selected .A few added O as the lay of day ,or year to date ! If its about the money ,the 5th to 10th wasn't paid out and the club contributed $15 k . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted Monday at 01:13 PM Share Posted Monday at 01:13 PM (edited) 2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: If its about the money ,the 5th to 10th wasn't paid out and the club contributed $15 k . error Edited Monday at 01:17 PM by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted Monday at 10:13 PM Author Share Posted Monday at 10:13 PM 11 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: For what it's worth , prior to the race , next to mounting yard I spoke to 6x folk who follow racing closely including a form analyst ,jockeys agent and a studmaster and not one thought or expected Orchestral to win and Acquarello was the favoured selected .A few added O as the lay of day ,or year to date ! If its about the money ,the 5th to 10th wasn't paid out and the club contributed $15 k . O Started fav FO and = on the tote at 2.2 So ordinary average 'Joe/Joess punter perhaps aka 'unsophisticated' punters thought otherwise They were entitled to think she was ready to go and not the 'quiet' run given weren't they? Stephen Hunt also tipped the winner and predicted how the race would be run Not the fact Grylls would show zero urgency until the turn though fav punters were entitled to expect far better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted Monday at 10:16 PM Author Share Posted Monday at 10:16 PM 18 hours ago, Gammalite said: Don't know how you blokes are struggling with this race so much 😎. these gallopers all seem 'very finicky' about what distance they race over . There were 4 nice horses racing over 1400m. At 1400m Orchestral 2 starts for just one x 2nd placing, Shamus with 8 starts for 4 wins, Acquarello 4 starts for a win and a 2nd, Pour the Wine 2 starts for one x 2nd placing at 1400. Shamus all day looks the winner then . get ya money on. looks a special 💰. 🏇😉 A very fear prediction You forgot to mention 1 win 1 2nd at 1200M though for O?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted Monday at 10:32 PM Share Posted Monday at 10:32 PM 16 minutes ago, Thomass said: O Started fav FO and = on the tote at 2.2 So ordinary average 'Joe/Joess punter perhaps aka 'unsophisticated' punters thought otherwise They were entitled to think she was ready to go and not the 'quiet' run given weren't they? Stephen Hunt also tipped the winner and predicted how the race would be run Not the fact Grylls would show zero urgency until the turn though fav punters were entitled to expect far better We have always had a history of very false favourites in NZ. The media have great power influencing the unsophisticated punters. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted yesterday at 12:07 AM Share Posted yesterday at 12:07 AM 1 hour ago, Thomass said: O Started fav FO and = on the tote at 2.2 So ordinary average 'Joe/Joess punter perhaps aka 'unsophisticated' punters thought otherwise They were entitled to think she was ready to go and not the 'quiet' run given weren't they? Stephen Hunt also tipped the winner and predicted how the race would be run Not the fact Grylls would show zero urgency until the turn though fav punters were entitled to expect far better 95% of punters lose their dough ...so all this within the margin of error ! Hindsight is easy ...also of interest there were two selectors in the racebook with 3 x selections per race. One picked the big O second ,the other 3rd ! Supports widely held view that punting is a mugs game......I also heard several predictions before the race that Shamus would make it a sedate work out with a sprint home ...so far no surprises ! Everyone was shouting Tale of the Gypsy from the rooftops in race 2 ...it managed 4th of 7. If punting was easy , everyone would do it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted yesterday at 01:07 AM Share Posted yesterday at 01:07 AM 2 hours ago, Doomed said: We have always had a history of very false favorites in NZ. The media have great power influencing the unsophisticated punters. YIP, especially so when one of the 'talking heads' gets all excited and a 'fashionable' jock is on, often late value can be found via something that drifts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted yesterday at 01:58 AM Author Share Posted yesterday at 01:58 AM 1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said: 95% of punters lose their dough ...so all this within the margin of error ! Hindsight is easy ...also of interest there were two selectors in the racebook with 3 x selections per race. One picked the big O second ,the other 3rd ! Supports widely held view that punting is a mugs game......I also heard several predictions before the race that Shamus would make it a sedate work out with a sprint home ...so far no surprises ! Everyone was shouting Tale of the Gypsy from the rooftops in race 2 ...it managed 4th of 7. If punting was easy , everyone would do it ! it certainly was the common consensus among the smarts, not only Steph Hunt but also Formpro 3.Aquarello is a smart horse, franked by the fact she just got beaten by the Group 1 winning mare Provence. She maps to sit outside Shamus in a sprint home, and that could be the undoing of Orchestral. She also has the fastest time over 1400m. RP $2.50, $3.40 ( Cash back race if 2nd or 3rd) So she is a good bet up to $50 So good on you for keeping smart company Meanwhile the hoi pilloried rightly expected at least a genuine steer instead of the soft hand shuffle they got delt Dropping 3L behind the leader on a soft tempo when a clear option ahead was available consigns NZ racing Integrity to the outhouse, once again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted yesterday at 02:43 AM Share Posted yesterday at 02:43 AM 43 minutes ago, Thomass said: Dropping 3L behind the leader on a soft tempo when a clear option ahead was available consigns NZ racing Integrity to the outhouse, once again. Only in your head. There was no clear option ahead once the horse was on the rail. Sadly that's another thing you fail at - form analyst. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted yesterday at 02:53 AM Share Posted yesterday at 02:53 AM (edited) 58 minutes ago, Thomass said: Dropping 3L behind the leader on a soft tempo umm, my eye saw her find her feet, then she settled into where she was,,, then the race played out! turn the page. Edited yesterday at 02:57 AM by Murray Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted yesterday at 03:27 AM Author Share Posted yesterday at 03:27 AM 24 minutes ago, Murray Fish said: umm, my eye saw her find her feet, then she settled into where she was,,, then the race played out! turn the page. Clueless is praising you Punters had the right to see her improve from the 800/turn to behind the pace...rather than do ZERO... it's not against the rules to improve off a slow tempo to give yourself a chance for a sprint home with the leaders GS said 4l off them rounding towards the turn So I was wrong...even worse than I thought Educate yourself Magoo https://loveracing.nz/RaceInfo/53296/1/Race-Detail.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted yesterday at 04:20 AM Share Posted yesterday at 04:20 AM 39 minutes ago, Thomass said: Punters had the right to see her improve from the 800/turn to behind the pace...rather than do ZERO... best of luck with that sort of thing! for what its worth, I've been a fan of the mare for a while! she presented 'nice', I was surprised how she had been priced. very much a watching race! I actually pondered a small nibble at the horse that look ready to run a good race! Shamus, at one stage he was around 12/1 to run 1/2, got distracted! doh! ps, there will be other chances to cash on on the mare coming up! ps. by chance! I was at opt the other day! the nice worker was keen to tell me that i have Excellent results! for me age! thankful for that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted 7 hours ago Author Share Posted 7 hours ago Onya, what about the other eye? Cataracts, macular degen., glaucoma...the silent one Seriously though Both O and the winner had exactly the same last 800M split What does that tell you? Good jockeys move forward off a slow pace without spending a penny..often without cover for little cost as well And of course Larney's advice.."try to keep top weighted horses handy" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted 5 hours ago Share Posted 5 hours ago 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Good jockeys move forward off a slow pace without spending a penny. And if the horse is starting a prep, racing way short of its best distance? they are not motorbikes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted 5 hours ago Author Share Posted 5 hours ago 40 minutes ago, Murray Fish said: And if the horse is starting a prep, racing way short of its best distance? they are not motorbikes! She goes well fresh and Wodger said 'she's ready to go albeit will take improvement" 3 starts before fresh and over the same c/d she ran 6l quicker in the first 400M and ran home the fastest 400M and 2nd fastest 200M of the race behind Shamus 1st /2nd over 1200m as a 2 yo... she's a 2000M horse who doesn't mind 1400M at all Like all good stayers fresh Keep the excuses coming though and I'll keep batting you As before Australian stewards would've blinded Gryll's with stats and pointed out his attempt at "not using a race as a training ground" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted 4 hours ago Share Posted 4 hours ago Anyone ever consider that might be just how good she is or not? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted 3 hours ago Share Posted 3 hours ago 1 hour ago, curious said: Anyone ever consider that might be just how good she is or not? I had my doubts the moment James Macdonald talked her up as being better than Silent Achiever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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