curious Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 58 minutes ago, Reefton said: I always said the rules of economics would tell racing clubs when it was time to wave the white flag. When the trainers stopped nominating the writing would be on the wall. Mind you that would need a fair and proportionate income stream based on your turnover(rather than a fixed daily amount as is paid now) That's called competition, I think. Most other industries have it. For some reason, this one wants the inefficient, poor product an economical operations to be subsided by the rest and from the proceeds of other business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, curious said: That's called competition, I think. Most other industries have it. For some reason, this one wants the inefficient, poor product an economical operations to be subsided by the rest and from the proceeds of other business. yeah it is a problem all right But if Winston and Co have their way it will not be my problem. My services have been summarily dispensed with. Don't know why I ever wasted my time(and money of course). Edited December 20, 2018 by Reefton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, curious said: That's called competition, I think. Most other industries have it. For some reason, this one wants the inefficient, poor product and least economical operations to be subsided by the rest and from the proceeds of other business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseboy Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Reefton said: See this is the hypocrisy of the Messara devotees They don't mind them shutting down the racecourse close to me but the minute you want to shut down one close to them ..... Ellerslie is like all the other big metro tracks - it gets a decent crowd about twice a year. for all the million and a half people they don't use the bloody thing(nor do they use Eden Park and nor will they use a waterfront stadium) It's not hypocrisy at all - the report called for the closing of an AUCKLAND TRACK. I am more than happy to retain West Coast tracks (assume that's where you are from), clearly the community wants them, but that doesn't mean all need to be retained. Maybe rather than bemoaning that so few people in our biggest city don't care about racing maybe we should ask WHY! And maybe we should bloody do something to change their minds. Hey there's a start... Edited December 20, 2018 by Horseboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 52 minutes ago, Horseboy said: It's not hypocrisy at all - the report called for the closing of an AUCKLAND TRACK. I am more than happy to retain West Coast tracks (assume that's where you are from), clearly the community wants them, but that doesn't mean all need to be retained. Maybe rather than bemoaning that so few people in our biggest city don't care about racing maybe we should ask WHY! And maybe we should bloody do something to change their minds. Hey there's a start... Well if people in Auckland are not interested in their course and racing what reason is that to close(say) Reefton where the people clearly are? Is it the RJC's fault that the ARC has no empathy with its target audience? The first thing the committee wants to do is get out among them instead of getting up in the committee room with (no doubt) Chittick, Sir Peter Vela, Hogan and David Ellis all sucking on free booze and tucker. Shout one or two a beer (especially in the public areas) to rev them up a bit. And as one of the Race Cafers said to me last January 'there is a better range of alcohol here(at Reefton) than they provide at Ellerslie'. I know when I had a horse in the Karaka three year old race (a few years ago) all I could get in the owners area was champagne or Speights(with all due respect to a successful brand I would have expected alternatives to Speights from a can!) In order to try to enthuse those who are not interested you alienate those who are! Seems like an enormous punt to me. Dumb dumb dumb(but about what you would expect of politicians and idiots like NZTR and NZRB) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 On 19/12/2018 at 3:09 PM, hesi said: A bit of a silver tongue, but one thing he said on Trackside today was worth some merit When talking about the contentious sale of racecourses and assets being transferred to NZTR(which he disagreed with). He said it was preferable that clubs in regions get together and voluntarily come up with solutions, rather than being mandated. In Auckland, we have Ellerslie, Avondale and Counties. Now Avondale are never going to go along with the Messara reco, and will tie it up in court for years, so Saundy's suggestion has some merit. Why don't all 3 sell, and put into a joint new racing complex at Karaka. Close to the sales, closer to the proposed new Waikato greenfields complex and other Waikato training centres, avoids the Auckland traffic, and still close enough to the Auckland population centre to allow oncourse attendance Why don't all 3 sell, and put into a joint new racing complex at Karaka. Why build a new complex there? If the Avondale track is sound, why not build it at Avondale (where the stands/services are pathetic)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 16 hours ago, Reefton said: Well if people in Auckland are not interested in their course and racing what reason is that to close(say) Reefton where the people clearly are? Is it the RJC's fault that the ARC has no empathy with its target audience? The first thing the committee wants to do is get out among them instead of getting up in the committee room with (no doubt) Chittick, Sir Peter Vela, Hogan and David Ellis all sucking on free booze and tucker. Shout one or two a beer (especially in the public areas) to rev them up a bit. And as one of the Race Cafers said to me last January 'there is a better range of alcohol here(at Reefton) than they provide at Ellerslie'. I know when I had a horse in the Karaka three year old race (a few years ago) all I could get in the owners area was champagne or Speights(with all due respect to a successful brand I would have expected alternatives to Speights from a can!) In order to try to enthuse those who are not interested you alienate those who are! Seems like an enormous punt to me. Dumb dumb dumb(but about what you would expect of politicians and idiots like NZTR and NZRB) You're simply out of touch reefer The facts of the matter are Auckland needs racing EVERY week...consistent product is the key in any sport...the crowds over the last few weeks have been excellent.... ...having a 3 month break in Metropolitan Auckland over winter is a joke...when you're trying to grow a sport and get into new immigrants hearts and minds... You're coming across as a bitter twisted grumpy old f'er reef... join in with the winners for a change...Winn's mob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 11 hours ago, Weasel said: Why don't all 3 sell, and put into a joint new racing complex at Karaka. Why build a new complex there? If the Avondale track is sound, why not build it at Avondale (where the stands/services are pathetic)? EGOS Egos would not allow it, whereas they might find acceptable a new cromplex other than Ellerslie, Avondale or Counties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Thomass said: You're simply out of touch reefer The facts of the matter are Auckland needs racing EVERY week...consistent product is the key in any sport...the crowds over the last few weeks have been excellent.... ...having a 3 month break in Metropolitan Auckland over winter is a joke...when you're trying to grow a sport and get into new immigrants hearts and minds... You're coming across as a bitter twisted grumpy old f'er reef... join in with the winners for a change...Winn's mob Listen tosser Lets compare Reefton with Auckland. Reefton has maybe 3000 people within a 40km radius. Auckland would have 1.5m. At our last meeting we turned over $100k oncourse. Extrapolating that out Auckland would expect to turn over $50 million oncourse per day. Now you will come back and say to me that Auckland has a lot more racedays(and therefore less novelty value) so lets be fair and divide that expected turnover by say 25 days(I am being VERY generous there but anyway) - that brings it back to $2m expected per day. Now I know you are not the sharpest but I am sorry to say the ARC ain't turning over $2m per day nor anywhere near it. Auckland people do not go to the races bottom line. Like Winston you are out of your depth in any sensible conversation but unlike Winston you do not have the backing of the Waikato mafia so I would suggest you get back to watching Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and leave the rational discussion to those with something intelligent to contribute. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseboy Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Reefton said: Listen tosser Lets compare Reefton with Auckland. Reefton has maybe 3000 people within a 40km radius. Auckland would have 1.5m. At our last meeting we turned over $100k oncourse. Extrapolating that out Auckland would expect to turn over $50 million oncourse per day. Now you will come back and say to me that Auckland has a lot more racedays(and therefore less novelty value) so lets be fair and divide that expected turnover by say 25 days(I am being VERY generous there but anyway) - that brings it back to $2m expected per day. Now I know you are not the sharpest but I am sorry to say the ARC ain't turning over $2m per day nor anywhere near it. Auckland people do not go to the races bottom line. Like Winston you are out of your depth in any sensible conversation but unlike Winston you do not have the backing of the Waikato mafia so I would suggest you get back to watching Mickey Mouse Clubhouse and leave the rational discussion to those with something intelligent to contribute. The logic behind this comparison is flawed. Though good to know you count children as potential punters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, Horseboy said: The logic behind this comparison is flawed. Though good to know you count children as potential punters! there are proportionately as many children in Reefton as there are in Auckland (in fact probably proportionately more given the exodus of young adults form rural areas). So that would make it worse from the ARC's point of view it is not flawed logic it is indisputable fact Idiot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseboy Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 47 minutes ago, Reefton said: there are proportionately as many children in Reefton as there are in Auckland (in fact probably proportionately more given the exodus of young adults form rural areas). So that would make it worse from the ARC's point of view it is not flawed logic it is indisputable fact Idiot! What is an indisputable fact? that more old people who like horses and punt live in small rural towns on the west coast? cutting edge market analysis there.. the only problem is that once again that has stuff all to do with that racing will be in 10, 20 or 30 years does it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 55 minutes ago, Horseboy said: What is an indisputable fact? that more old people who like horses and punt live in small rural towns on the west coast? cutting edge market analysis there.. the only problem is that once again that has stuff all to do with that racing will be in 10, 20 or 30 years does it.. Maybe not....but the Mesara Report has hardly given us a vision for the future has it? There is nothing in there to address the quality of the product. However there is talk of big investment in infrastructure but what use will that be if we only have low class brumbies left to race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Horseboy said: What is an indisputable fact? that more old people who like horses and punt live in small rural towns on the west coast? cutting edge market analysis there.. the only problem is that once again that has stuff all to do with that racing will be in 10, 20 or 30 years does it.. 'more old people'???? Well go back to my post above. The simpleton's in Winston's department(and the press and those flogging this tripe) are planning to eliminate those 'old people' and replace them with 18-44 year olds all keen as mustard to invest massively into racing. Well like most idiots they have an idealistic goal - but 18 -44 year olds tend to have mortgages or are saving deposits for houses(or soon will be) - they do not have the disposal income to spend on racing like the 'old people' do. In simple terms it would be nice but it ain't going to happen. They might turn up once or twice a year for a day out but that is for social purposes not to have huge days on the punt. So Witless Win and his cronies like you and Thomass are holding up track closures as one of the planks to restore NZ Racing to its former glory and all the while will alienate significant numbers of the current supporters in the vain(sorry for the pun Winnie) hope that 18-44 year olds will fill the gap? Fairyland stuff man. As most of the better informed people here (on the gaming front that is - certainly not me) note the issues are surrounding administration of the industry and the way the TAB is run(and what it costs). Shutting tracks when there is not one tiny bit of evidence that it will save money will not rescue NZ Racing but equally as I said above after Hesi's intro and the hue and cry resulting - you lot supporting this are great while it is someone else's facilities being dispensed with but not so keen when yours are suggested for the chop. The worst performing assets(from a purely economic perspective) in NZ Racing are the TAB(no question) and the incredibly valuable metropolitan racetrack properties. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 I notice the report says, by closing 20 tracks they will save 100 million dollars on upgrading facilities and tracks, but they were never going to spend that money anyway, so how can you claim to save it......I thought that was drawing a long bow 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 They've already saved much more than that on not upgrading tracks in the last few decades but look where that has got them. Totally illogical logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted December 21, 2018 Author Share Posted December 21, 2018 8 minutes ago, curious said: They've already saved much more than that on not upgrading tracks in the last few decades but look where that has got them. Totally illogical logic. I suppose if you don't paint your wooden house every 10 years, for every year that you miss it compounds on the eventual total refurbishment cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 7 hours ago, hesi said: I notice the report says, by closing 20 tracks they will save 100 million dollars on upgrading facilities and tracks, but they were never going to spend that money anyway, so how can you claim to save it......I thought that was drawing a long bow Yep downright scandalous those types of comments and there are people out there that believe that this is true that there will be a savings in costs if tracks close, there won't be. If those 20 tracks close the game is dead! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted December 21, 2018 Share Posted December 21, 2018 9 hours ago, Reefton said: Shutting tracks when there is not one tiny bit of evidence that it will save money will not rescue NZ Racing but equally as I said above after Hesi's intro and the hue and cry resulting - you lot supporting this are great while it is someone else's facilities being dispensed with but not so keen when yours are suggested for the chop. Been saying this for a long time, its a great report the M report so long as none of it impacts on my neck of the woods, just look at the know it alls the Informant has been giving a platform to print their dribble, none of them are directly impacted by the human side of the M report but they want to benefit from someone else poorer outcome re the report. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Perhaps an innovative group of smaller clubs with decent tracks and community support, especially the disenfranchised, or about to be so, should all withdraw from NZTR (if not already being withdrawn), form a separate association ( e.g., Country Racing NZ - could be multi-code), set their own dates, provide their own vision (perhaps via web based channel), integrity services, etc. and negotiate with overseas operator/s to provide the wagering services and funding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 3 hours ago, curious said: Perhaps an innovative group of smaller clubs with decent tracks and community support, especially the disenfranchised, or about to be so, should all withdraw from NZTR (if not already being withdrawn), form a separate association ( e.g., Country Racing NZ - could be multi-code), set their own dates, provide their own vision (perhaps via web based channel), integrity services, etc. and negotiate with overseas operator/s to provide the wagering services and funding? Suspect there might be an injunction flying in that case Curious but like the concept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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