G3 2yo

[Huey]

How can anyone claim this to be a G3 race , compare to the 2yo races at Rosehill & Sandown it's an absolute joke this can go down on a horses CV as a G3.

https://www.breednet.com.au/news/36586/g3-victory-for-$1.3million-snitzel-colt-

[Chief Stipe]

Two very very good 2yr olds quinelled the race.  

Why would you consider it a joke?

I will accept though that this race has been stuffed up from the pattern perspective.  The field quality has dropped off since the introduction of the KM.

 

[Jim Green]

It was a maiden with 1 horse that had won. A Joke of a group 3 I agree,but easy for us punters.

Was better than bank interest and easy money.

Think All Blacks playing in your local competition

[Jim Green]

3 minutes ago, Jim Green said:

It was a maiden with 1 horse that had won. A Joke of a group 3 I agree,but easy for us punters.

Was better than bank interest and easy money.

Think All Blacks playing in your local competition

I am not a big fan of odds on betting but the Te Akau 2yo into Wilydoit was a quick investment for a nice night out. They both looked absolute good things on paper if they didn't fall over

[Huey]

51 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Two very very good 2yr olds quinelled the race.  

Why would you consider it a joke?

I will accept though that this race has been stuffed up from the pattern perspective.  The field quality has dropped off since the introduction of the KM.

 

Remains to be seen if the 2nd horse is a good horse, the winner certainly is decent for NZ but it would want to be at that price.

From a Black Type perspective that race was higher than the KM (yes I know it's a sales race closed off etc) but for goodness sake anyone who thinks that race was deserving of G3 status needs a lobotomy,  it's also much worse than when Taranaki had it.

[Wingman]

2 hours ago, Huey said:

I will accept though that this race has been stuffed up from the pattern perspective.  The field quality has dropped off since the introduction of the KM.

And there in lies the real problem. At the beginning of the season the group races are known, the quality of the future fields are not known; however an astute planner would know that the pattern has been stuffed therefore serious adjustment is required otherwise there will be some chronic sub standard group races.

Apart from stripping group races from southern clubs and moving them north what was changed 9 months ago? I suggest the next move will be to also move this race north. The agenda is set and unless the incoming change at the top of NZTR says enough (unlikely) you/we are watching the future of NZ racing, which will be totally top heavy and ultimately a disaster.

[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, Jim Green said:

It was a maiden with 1 horse that had won. A Joke of a group 3 I agree,but easy for us punters.

So I guess you found the Taranaki Cup mildly hilarious?

[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, Huey said:

Remains to be seen if the 2nd horse is a good horse, the winner certainly is decent for NZ but it would want to be at that price.

The 2nd horse showed it is a very good horse.  There was a fair bit if class in that race but without exposed form.

What has the price of a horse got to do with a horse being "decent"?  $1.3m is a snip for a Snitzel colt out of a Lonhro mare.  The dam line has the French bred Snowdrift - a prolific producer of Grp winners in Australia including Snowland.  If he keeps winning that $1.3m will be worth 20 or 30 times that.

I'm disappointed but not surprised @Huey that your blinkers don't allow you to say the winner is obviously at the top level.  I've seen him up close and he is a very well put together colt.  Unbeaten to date in races and trials.  His trial at Matamata on the 14th of January against older horses was impressive.  One to watch if he stays sound.

13 hours ago, Huey said:

From a Black Type perspective that race was higher than the KM (yes I know it's a sales race closed off etc) but for goodness sake anyone who thinks that race was deserving of G3 status needs a lobotomy,  it's also much worse than when Taranaki had it.

You can't knock it when it has only  raced at Ellerslie once.  Trainers are notoriously slow to adapt.

Most of any perceived problems are related to the pattern and placement of this specific race.  This race was being screwed by those things well before it was shifted from New Plymouth.  Distance to travel and the track condition there didn't help either on attracting a good field.  That said it was a useful G3 in the past.

Both New Plymouth, Ellerslie and NZTR thought moving it would help it BUT one thing that has been learnt from this latest edition of the race is that location isn't the only problem.

As I've posted on a few occasions before all patten roads point to KM and then to March at Ellerslie.  There is very little in the way of alternative pathways for non KM eligible horses.  Very little for 3yr old sprinting fillies but that's another topic. 

It isn't a dissimilar model to what happens in Australia where all paths point to a few tracks in each State.  The difference is the pattern isn't skewed and based around races where ALL comers are welcome.

[Huey]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

The 2nd horse showed it is a very good horse.  There was a fair bit if class in that race but without exposed form.

What has the price of a horse got to do with a horse being "decent"?  $1.3m is a snip for a Snitzel colt out of a Lonhro mare.  The dam line has the French bred Snowdrift - a prolific producer of Grp winners in Australia including Snowland.  If he keeps winning that $1.3m will be worth 20 or 30 times that.

I'm disappointed but not surprised @Huey that your blinkers don't allow you to say the winner is obviously at the top level.  I've seen him up close and he is a very well put together colt.  Unbeaten to date in races and trials.  His trial at Matamata on the 14th of January against older horses was impressive.  One to watch if he stays sound.

You can't knock it when it has only  raced at Ellerslie once.  Trainers are notoriously slow to adapt.

Most of any perceived problems are related to the pattern and placement of this specific race.  This race was being screwed by those things well before it was shifted from New Plymouth.  Distance to travel and the track condition there didn't help either on attracting a good field.  That said it was a useful G3 in the past.

Both New Plymouth, Ellerslie and NZTR thought moving it would help it BUT one thing that has been learnt from this latest edition of the race is that location isn't the only problem.

As I've posted on a few occasions before all patten roads point to KM and then to March at Ellerslie.  There is very little in the way of alternative pathways for non KM eligible horses.  Very little for 3yr old sprinting fillies but that's another topic. 

It isn't a dissimilar model to what happens in Australia where all paths point to a few tracks in each State.  The difference is the pattern isn't skewed and based around races where ALL comers are welcome.

Winner is good for NZ , would he have won any of the 2yo races at Rosehill or Sandown on Saturday?

Unexposed form , I've heard it all now.