Turny Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 The elephant in the room remains the exorbitant salaries and lack of respect for the board and leadership NZ Racing is stuffed, we all know that and are walking away 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 34 minutes ago, curious said: They aren't are they? It's overall net revenue that matters is it not? well yes but as a barometer of the appeal of the industry to the wider public you want to see faces at the races. That is how , in this day and age, you will get long term devotees to the industry(not by hoping that they will read a Te Akau ad and think 'gee I can own a guaranteed group one winner' of by hoping they will be flicking through Sky channels one day and say 'this trackside action looks fascinating'). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 18 minutes ago, Reefton said: well yes but as a barometer of the appeal of the industry to the wider public you want to see faces at the races. That is how , in this day and age, you will get long term devotees to the industry(not by hoping that they will read a Te Akau ad and think 'gee I can own a guaranteed group one winner' of by hoping they will be flicking through Sky channels one day and say 'this trackside action looks fascinating'). Also u can hard out promote a day at the races and lots of people turning out raises the profile of racing, betting and racing a horse. It is a perfect strategy to win back lost ground Directly promoting gambling on the other hand is fraught with issues 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 22 minutes ago, Reefton said: well yes but as a barometer of the appeal of the industry to the wider public you want to see faces at the races. That is how , in this day and age, you will get long term devotees to the industry(not by hoping that they will read a Te Akau ad and think 'gee I can own a guaranteed group one winner' of by hoping they will be flicking through Sky channels one day and say 'this trackside action looks fascinating'). Yes and if we are honest with ourselves the vast majority of those interested in the industry had their first experience of it at their local race track - mine was at Hokitika. One of the downsides of centralisation is that fewer and fewer people will have easy access to the sport. The majority of New Zealander's live outside Auckland. Even those that do live in Auckland find it too hard to travel across town to Ellerslie. Our young people are largely transient - they need to move to larger locations to be educated and eventually to find work. I took my interest in racing with me. Remove the early exposure and you remove long term interest. Reefton doesn't cost the industry anything more than any of the large tracks. Arguably if you remove capital depreciation it costs the industry a lot less. Local volunteers keep it going not overpaid execs. As for a racing experience I can't see how Kumara prevails over the other 4 West Coast tracks. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yep agree with the last 4 posts...(just my 10 cents worth)... GATE CHARGS @ different times of the year / combined with BYO rules) and owner/ members/sponsor privileges.. .will determine the mix of racegoers and crowds on-course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseboy Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: On Course Turnover is representative of how many people were on course. I guess the biggest difference between Mutta Mutta and Reefton was those at Mutta Mutta were industry employers and employees who don't seem to bet. It indicates how many people were on course betting with cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) To me, two of the biggest factors in choosing course retention should be 1 What does it cost the industry to earn $1 of revenue for the industry for each track. 2 What are the costs by way of lost customers/revenue associated with not retaining the track. It's a business. And of course, we realise that for number 1, all the courses will be greater than $1. Some will be well beyond that. Edited January 16, 2019 by mardigras 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) . Edited January 16, 2019 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 47 minutes ago, mardigras said: To me, two of the biggest factors in choosing course retention should be 1 What does it cost the industry to earn $1 of revenue for the industry for each track. 2 What are the costs by way of lost customers/revenue associated with not retaining the track. It's a business. And of course, we realise that for number 1, all the courses will be greater than $1. Some will be well beyond that. I understand that Taupo had a huge on course turnover at their last meeting. Likewise the West Coast meetings...I don't know the maths but it would be interesting to do an exercise...i,e, capital value of racecourse versus 'income' on raceday. Compare that to most Ellerslie meetings ( actual race turnover not their inflated drinks etc)...think there'd be a huge disparity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: On Course Turnover is representative of how many people were on course. I guess the biggest difference between Mutta Mutta and Reefton was those at Mutta Mutta were industry employers and employees who don't seem to bet. It isn't though is it? All you need is a couple of very big punters on course to distort that or a punters comp. Take today at Rotorua the on course figs will look good if the punter who put $15k on the Marsh runner did it on course totes. Tickets issues would be interesting figures for most meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Huey said: It isn't though is it? All you need is a couple of very big punters on course to distort that or a punters comp. Take today at Rotorua the on course figs will look good if the punter who put $15k on the Marsh runner did it on course totes. Tickets issues would be interesting figures for most meetings. How much did you put on your horse on course Reefton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 14 hours ago, Reefton said: You do not address the question Thomass (a habit you share with your idiot friend Peters). The required response is to explain why two meetings, one with every possible advantage over the other, could return such contrasting oncourse results (with the disadvantaged one clearly outperforming the other). It is a simple question and, given you seem to have an opinion on everything, one which you should be able to answer without reverting back to this 'them versus us' crap. The Waikato mafia are behind Witless and his report but they will clearly neither attend nor bet on their own meetings. I want to know why (and it would be nice to have a concise and coherent answer with proper grammer not this gobledegook rubbish you throw up) What say you? Wtf Dont want to state the bleedin' obvious...but even Bogan Bazz has already recognised Reefton is a holiday area at this time....and Mutts isn't next One must ask the question though... How many on here, including you...have read the report in TOTALITY... ...and not in between number twos in a Coast outhouse? fair suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Thomass said: Wtf Dont want to state the bleedin' obvious...but even Bogan Bazz has already recognised Reefton is a holiday area at this time....and Mutts isn't Thomaas I know you haven't ventured far from your mothers apron but Reefton is hardly a tourist mecca aka Queenstown. Even Reefton (the BOAY member) would attest to that. I'm not sure how many resident horse trainers are left in Reefton - I'm not even sure that there were that many ever. Aside from the O'Malley's and by true West Coast location definition they weren't really even Reefton. Compare that to Mutta Mutta - apparently in the Bermuda Triangle of the mecca for all things Thoroughbred and a skip from the metroplis of Hamilton and the shining new star of Cambridge. So credit where credit is due - Reefton out performed the privileged classes on their ONLY race day and presumably their last. Arguably there is a solid case to shift some of Mutta Mutta's dates (plural!) to the West Coast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 16 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: How much did you put on your horse on course Reefton? Heaven for bid I don't gamble! ;0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Thomaas I know you haven't ventured far from your mothers apron but Reefton is hardly a tourist mecca aka Queenstown. Even Reefton (the BOAY member) would attest to that. I'm not sure how many resident horse trainers are left in Reefton - I'm not even sure that there were that many ever. Aside from the O'Malley's and by true West Coast location definition they weren't really even Reefton. Compare that to Mutta Mutta - apparently in the Bermuda Triangle of the mecca for all things Thoroughbred and a skip from the metroplis of Hamilton and the shining new star of Cambridge. So credit where credit is due - Reefton out performed the privileged classes on their ONLY race day and presumably their last. Arguably there is a solid case to shift some of Mutta Mutta's dates (plural!) to the West Coast. Correct moi if I'm wrong but last time I looked Reef is on the WC?? This fabulous Coalition Govermnent had to cough up INFRUSTRUCTURE funds due to the fact of no INFRUSTRUCTURE...thanks to the Knats The tourist throngs throng there now...even vast numbers of Cantabs flock there Meanwhile Mutts gets the odd Hobiton tourist....but they're soooo poor the local Swap Contractors Mow the Road Median strips for free..bless them How can anyone afford to go to the races there with no money and sfa interest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Thomass said: Correct moi if I'm wrong but last time I looked Reef is on the WC?? This fabulous Coalition Govermnent had to cough up INFRUSTRUCTURE funds due to the fact of no INFRUSTRUCTURE...thanks to the Knats The tourist throngs throng there now...even vast numbers of Cantabs flock there Meanwhile Mutts gets the odd Hobiton tourist....but they're soooo poor the local Swap Contractors Mow the Road Median strips for free..bless them How can anyone afford to go to the races there with no money and sfa interest? You clearly have no understanding of the West Coast. Technically yes Reefton is the "West Coast" but it is closer to Buller (Westport) than Grey (Greymouth) and certainly a long way from Westland (Hokitika) and the Glaciers (South Westland). The distance from Karamea in the North to Haast in the South is greater than the distance between Auckland and Wellington. So when you talk about Tourists "thronging there" they do tend to pass Reefton by or on their way through to other destinations. It is nowhere near the coast. Now you are getting off topic with regard to Government HAVING to cough up infrastructure. The reality is it is a bribe from the Shane Jones slush fund. Basically a bribe to cover the fact that the most naturally resourced province in the country is unable to use those resources thanks to the Greenies and they are killing the remaining industries e.g. the likes of coal production. I don't see any big pine plantations happening either. Geez even Monteiths is now brewed in Auckland. Back to the topic - Reefton as a racecourse - you are providing a counter argument to your initial argument that is you are now saying that Reefton is more popular than Mutta Mutta. So one must conclude that Reefton as a racing venue stays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 16/01/2019 at 9:57 AM, Turny said: The elephant in the room remains the exorbitant salaries and lack of respect for the board and leadership NZ Racing is stuffed, we all know that and are walking away it is not just the NZ Racing Board or NZTR Turny 20 Years ago when Chittick was going to eliminate us I did a comparison of the admin(not the track staff just the straight out office staff) between my two clubs at the time(Greymouth and Reefton - I was Secretary of both) and the CJC. The per raceday admin salaries at Riccarton at the time were $10,000 per day where ours cost $3,500 per day. I know ours are probably 2 and a half times that now but I will bet Riccarton's are 3 times the amount they were then. With all due respect to Tim Mills(the CJC - small club relationship is a hell of a lot more cozy now than it was then) if I couldn't run Riccarton with a secretary(capable of running a race meeting if I was absent) and maybe a part-timer for the couple of weeks prior to the Cup Meeting I'll go hee. Like a lot of things in NZ racing (and all NZ where people are not paying their own bills - councils, hospitals, government departments and big companies) there is a culture of excess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 On 16/01/2019 at 10:40 AM, Chief Stipe said: Reefton doesn't cost the industry anything more than any of the large tracks. Arguably if you remove capital depreciation it costs the industry a lot less. Local volunteers keep it going not overpaid execs. As for a racing experience I can't see how Kumara prevails over the other 4 West Coast tracks. Virtually no capital depreciation at Reefton - the stand is old and would have a nil(or close to) book value I imagine and our only significant depreciating asset is our share of the gates(another thing Winston is going to have to fund because while we have a storage shed for them neither Greymouth or Kumara do - we have always looked after the West Coast gates and will not be doing so if we are not racing). Reefton costs the NZ industry stone cold zero to have as a racecourse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horseboy Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, Reefton said: Virtually no capital depreciation at Reefton - the stand is old and would have a nil(or close to) book value I imagine and our only significant depreciating asset is our share of the gates(another thing Winston is going to have to fund because while we have a storage shed for them neither Greymouth or Kumara do - we have always looked after the West Coast gates and will not be doing so if we are not racing). Reefton costs the NZ industry stone cold zero to have as a racecourse. Is there an opportunity cost from an international wagering perspective? Ie when NZ racing is broadcast into Australian pubs, are they more likely to bet on Ellerslie because it has name recognition (like Kiwis might with Flemington compared to Wagga Wagga). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, Horseboy said: Is there an opportunity cost from an international wagering perspective? Ie when NZ racing is broadcast into Australian pubs, are they more likely to bet on Ellerslie because it has name recognition (like Kiwis might with Flemington compared to Wagga Wagga). I very much doubt it. Over the years, the ratio of betting on racing between Australia and NZ on NZ events has been highest at the smaller venues. It was the thinking of Monday Tuesday racing that they could capitalise on that to boost the revenue of NZ racing. Whilst they still were betting more on those midweek events, they still weren't betting enough to make it viable. So ovrrall, those meetings had relatively greater Oz interest compared to NZ punters than Ellerslie had compared to NZ punters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, mardigras said: I very much doubt it. Over the years, the ratio of betting on racing between Australia and NZ on NZ events has been highest at the smaller venues. It was the thinking of Monday Tuesday racing that they could capitalise on that to boost the revenue of NZ racing. Whilst they still were betting more on those midweek events, they still weren't betting enough to make it viable. So ovrrall, those meetings had relatively greater Oz interest compared to NZ punters than Ellerslie had compared to NZ punters. Yes, the ratio of OZ turnover to NZ turnover is almost always higher at venues like Reefton than Ellerslie or Trentham so I don't think there's any evidence that would lend weight to that proposition Horseboy. The reverse is more likely true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 16/01/2019 at 7:09 PM, Chief Stipe said: How much did you put on your horse on course Reefton? Cannot remember but I do not have much confidence in her so suspect $20 each way. I am fairly disillusioned with the game just now and have never (1)been much of a judge or (2) bothered to study form so accordingly am not doing too much punting(never have been a particularly big punter in any case - I love - or did love - the game, the horses and the people in the industry but Winston is telling me I no longer have a place so I am happy to walk away). As far a Huey suggesting one big punter might have inflated our turnover it has been consistently good for most of my years on the committee so that did not likely affect the turnover this time. Because we turn on a good day(usually! - pretty relaxed and on the Coast you are always close to the action) we have some very loyal supporters and that stands to us. And Houseboy your question re people betting in cash - well I imagine the same proportion at either meeting but if there was more tote betting proportionately at Reefton it indicates we are likely initiating a lot more people into the game than Matamata was that day so who is likely contributing more to the long term growth of the industry in that case? Thomass I am going to ignore you as you are as usual (1) out of your depth in a sensible discussion (2)incoherent in your responses and (3) an idiot. Why don't you go back to wherever it was you recently where? In fact I have just had a thought - Thomass you aren't one of those poms causing havoc around the Country are you? You fit the profile - argumentative, barely understandable,rather rude and clearly not very bright. I think we may have cracked the mystery of Thomass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Tiger Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Matamata Total Turnover 09/01/19 - $781k Reefton Total Turnover 09/01/19- $541k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, Tiger Tiger said: Matamata Total Turnover 09/01/19 - $781k Reefton Total Turnover 09/01/19- $541k Where did you find those figures? Many of us have been looking for turnover figures for quite sometime. They don't seem to be published anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Tiger Tiger said: Matamata Total Turnover 09/01/19 - $781k Reefton Total Turnover 09/01/19- $541k We are talking about oncourse. And where do you get your figures from? - the TAB specifically told us they could not provide fixed odds info(because I wanted it immediately) And even allowing for all that Matamata only doing $781 off course is hardly anything to skite about. More like something to cry about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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