Auckland/Cambridge.

[mikeynz]

Judging by numbers, might be smarter running one night instead of two, they lack numbers as a rule, less than Southland and Southland survive on a 10 day break at present, would save cost in transport, tv cost etc etc

[mikeynz]

Only 5 races at Cambridge tomorrow, seems it would make more sense only one Northern meeting per week at present, with maybe 12 races, add to that if you bulk up field sizes you might get genuine winners instead of some winning by default, while as one poster says lots of happy owners but this can't be in the best interest of HRNZ.

[Nowornever]

The fields this week up north can only be described as an abortion. I will not touch them. They are an embarrassment.

 

[mikeynz]

Well would make more sense one day, travelling cost reduced, trackside crew don't do it for nought, you can make allowances for Manawatu or some areas a bit light sometimes but in the North, one day a week is sufficient, seems to be at the other end of the country.

Edited yesterday at 02:11 AM by mikeynz

[Brodie]

Na all is Rosey, Brad Steele says so!

Plenty of money left from Entain, even though the NZ Government is actually shelling out tens of millions to Entain so they do not lose as much according to Greyhound Racing NZ.

HRNZ need to take their blinkers off and start acting financially fiscally.

[mikeynz]

23 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Na all is Rosey, Brad Steele says so!

Plenty of money left from Entain, even though the NZ Government is actually shelling out tens of millions to Entain so they do not lose as much according to Greyhound Racing NZ.

HRNZ need to take their blinkers off and start acting financially fiscally.

What would be the point in selling a training centre to keep a course open when more than likely the supply of runners will more than likely dry up, can't have one without the other.

[Brodie]

Reality is that harness racing is not travelling well despite the picture that HRNZ is trying to paint!

Not sure when this committee that Winstone wants is going to be formed and take action?

Yes for some they think thinks are going well for harness but it is being held together by the money that come from Entain, but that is going to finish!

Then we find out that the NZ Government taxpayer is shelling out tens of millions to Entain and then they get 50% of the online gambling and sports profit??

McAnulty signed off on one hell of a bad deal for NZ and a great deal for Entain,  but then again so many appallingly bad things occurred when Labour was in control of NZ.

Edited 22 hours ago by Brodie

[mikeynz]

The government is shelling out millions to Entain, really?

[curious]

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2506/S00124/new-analysis-details-government-annual-gift-of-119m-to-multinational-gambling-company.htm

[mikeynz]

30 minutes ago, curious said:

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2506/S00124/new-analysis-details-government-annual-gift-of-119m-to-multinational-gambling-company.htm

And if revenue remains static?

[Gammalite]

5 hours ago, Nowornever said:

The fields this week up north can only be described as an abortion. I will not touch them. They are an embarrassment.

 

An embarrassment ?? people having fun with their sport. Why do you have to get involved as a Naysayer of the sport anyway ? go and do some knitting or something. 

Best think ever is  that HRNZ LOOKING after the Grass roots people with SLOW horses,  so they can have fun .

The GAlah was calling for HRNZ to look after the 'grass roots ' .You guys all saying the Elite getting looked after too well ??  🤣  here they are doing it. HRNZ looking after the slow ones , and then get an 'abortion of a comment 'like yours ,😄

that's pretty funny.

Just up the road from me tonight a few horses are racing at Redcliffe . The slowest of the slow 🤣.  an extra meeting so they can have some fun. only $4000 races. winners get $2300 I think. 7 Winners getting a weeks wages .

And NOBODY here is calling it an abortion or an Embarassment in the slightest  ( or are betting on them lol🤣 )    Racing QLD has put up some races for them to get a WINNER.  How IMPORTANT that is , to keep them happy. 

Great to see HRNZ trying to do the same tomorrow in the Waikato 👍👍 it's how harness racing can Survive.

[Nowornever]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

An embarrassment ?? people having fun with their sport. Why do you have to get involved as a Naysayer of the sport anyway ? go and do some knitting or something. 

If you call a five race meeting fun with none of the fields having more than 8 horses and one of those 5 races a five horse field, then good luck to you. 

There is no way I am betting at that load of shite and I am willing to bet that is a losing meeting for funding with the turnover nowhere near covering the cost of running it.

People may be having fun at their sport but I suppose the people on the Titanic were having fun at some stage too.

[Brodie]

Gamma, great that you can race in Queensland 2 or 3 times a week for at least $4k.

They should never have closed the Parklands course to build those hideous coloured boxes!

Thing is, when the funding from Entain finishes they may well be needing to race for stakes half of what they are currently racing  for here.

If this is the case I highly suspect that the industry will crash big time as I reckon with the cost of having a horse trained will not justify racing one.

Owners are getting older snd the young ones will not be entering into new ownerships!

Problem currently is that HRNZ I personally believe are mismanaging things and this will probably come out once the committee does the due diligence on what is happening with the Entain cash splash wastage!

More than happy to not be on the money on this one?

[mikeynz]

11 hours ago, Brodie said:

Gamma, great that you can race in Queensland 2 or 3 times a week for at least $4k.

They should never have closed the Parklands course to build those hideous coloured boxes!

Thing is, when the funding from Entain finishes they may well be needing to race for stakes half of what they are currently racing  for here.

If this is the case I highly suspect that the industry will crash big time as I reckon with the cost of having a horse trained will not justify racing one.

Owners are getting older snd the young ones will not be entering into new ownerships!

Problem currently is that HRNZ I personally believe are mismanaging things and this will probably come out once the committee does the due diligence on what is happening with the Entain cash splash wastage!

More than happy to not be on the money on this one?

Hard to believe the governments propping up Entain, maybe the old TAB wasn't as bad as we first thought but the hypocrisy of still allowing greyhound betting on aussie dogs when ours are over is strange.

I also believe that geo blocking won't be the windfall they think it is.

Most of the actions Peter's is instigating is being pushed by his high flying galloping mates up north who basically don't give a shit about anybody else but themselves, i doubt many of them even give a shit about racing south of cook straight, hence their desire to move more and more of the big races to Ellerslie.

[Gammalite]

13 hours ago, Nowornever said:

If you call a five race meeting fun with none of the fields having more than 8 horses and one of those 5 races a five horse field, then good luck to you. 

There is no way I am betting at that load of shite and I am willing to bet that is a losing meeting for funding with the turnover nowhere near covering the cost of running it.

People may be having fun at their sport but I suppose the people on the Titanic were having fun at some stage too.

 

5 -6 horse fields are great .  (currently we use 9 at most country meetings in QLD ) but with tough times and expenses approaching that number will drop .

This is because Every runner gets a chance in the running. even if still back last at the quarter mile . (400m to run)

we lobbyed 'Racing Queensland' hard in Queensland to cut the field size for Albion Park mile racing from 12 starters to 10. This gives all runners a FAIR GO and a CHANCE to win .

starting 12 horses just meant the horses running 11th or 12th were NO HOPE even quarter mile out, as just too far off the leaders. That is NO GOOD for the Owner or the driver, or the horse , or the Punter. NO Good.

Field sizes should be as small as possible at a meeting to Increase all those parties HAVING A WIN.   

Also as you mentioned there is the IMPORTANT 'fun'  expect competing. That's why the SPORT Exists . It's not a Poker machine for gambling addicts 🤣😂 

Love your picture posted by the way . Match races are ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC . Zac would love It. 

Imagine the crowd Leap To Fame v Don Hugo would draw ? one on one. Magical moment it would be.

Pure Steel and Satinover drew a crowd of 20 ,000 . they lined the whole course at Perth All the Way around.

You don't know what great racing is? .  is the NZ problem in general really.

match racing would be Stunning !!!

BUT  10 horses SLOT racing Brilliant too. !!!!! Drawing the Best horses on the planet. NZ Metropolitan Club and Albion Park and Menangle and Perth are instilling them each year for maximum effect.  excellent Progress !!!💰

(15-16 horses standing starts is something from the Dark ages) 

here's a 2 horse race for you. listen to that crowd. Appreciation of the sport. unlike some. 

 

[mikeynz]

2 horse racing may be interesting but 2 horse fields might be the new norm someday, and who's going to punt if they like Trifectas and First Four only lol.

[Gammalite]

4 minutes ago, mikeynz said:

2 horse racing may be interesting but 2 horse fields might be the new norm someday, and who's going to punt if they like Trifectas and First Four only lol.

Good one Mikey . 😆 you won't be hitting the Trifecta in that one .

We ran Australia's Greatest Race the Miracle Mile with 6 horses fields for decades. Was quite successful. Then transferring to Menangle , it is still run with Maximum 8 horse fields . It is still amazingly Successful 

People can still bet on it , and do. 

USA /Cananda have ONLY 8 horse field races one after another at all tracks . sometimes 15 races on the card. 

Plenty of Trifecta's , PICK 6, First 4 's and all sorts for you to hit. 💰

THIS IS the Way to do it . and Australia and NZ should follow that model.  Aus getting closer all the time . 

EVERY runner gets a chance to Win . the Slot racing 10 starters is ok though. a Great innovation. 

But YES , indeed One day Match Racing MIght return. 

If LEAP TO FAME took  on NZ's Single BEST horse somewhere it would even get on the NATIONAL NEWS. we havn't been on the news bulletins for over a decade now. BRING BACK the MATCH RAce !!!!!  

 

 

[Gammalite]

13 hours ago, Nowornever said:

There is no way I am betting at that load of shite and I am willing to bet that is a losing meeting for funding with the turnover nowhere near covering the cost of running it.

5 x $8000 races that entertains hundreds of people , many people making some wages ,, making a living,   the staff at the track, the broadcasters, the people working the Horses (they put in a huge effort)   ? 

All for the price of a cheap new car . $40k . What a bargain . Plenty of happy people about. but you say ABORTION . eject this foetus . don't let them play . Embarrassment ??. 

Nays it's Shite. a proud supporter of the sport. You should join Carlton lol 🤣.  some Embarassment then 🤣.

If they can't afford $40k to pay a heap of owners and trainers and drivers at Waikato today , cause you have shite yourself , maybe drop to the prizemoney in half then ? 

Run the races for $4000 each instead of $8000 then. save you a few precious dollars? ya poor thing 

Some people pay for their entertainment . some don't want too.

We ran 7 races for about a $30k total last night at Redcliffe. no-one Aborted. just had a Fun time. 

[Nowornever]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

THIS IS the Way to do it . and Australia and NZ should follow that model.  Aus getting closer all the time . 

Bigger fields better and the stats prove it. The meetings with the highest turnover are mostly grass tracks. Why?

Harder to pick and you need to spend more money to cover the field with exotic bets and therefore the dividends are by default larger. More horses means possibly more moves in a race making them harder to predict.

Most punters I know have a bet to make money not throw it away. Hard to make money if the dividends are prohibitive to actually giving you a chance to make a profit. Lower number of horses in a race = lower dividends. Simple math.

That is why big fields on grass are all the rage in New Zealand. Everyone is trying to get a slice of those $20,000 first fours and $8000 trifectas. Not to mention the $20,000 quaddies. 

We don't want the $20 trifectas and $50 first fours the fields at Cambridge are going to throw up tonight. Why risk your money for no reward. Once again the stats will prove it. No one will bet at this meeting the turnover will be proof of that.

[Gammalite]

30 minutes ago, Nowornever said:

Bigger fields better and the stats prove it. The meetings with the highest turnover are mostly grass tracks. Why?

Harder to pick and you need to spend more money to cover the field with exotic bets and therefore the dividends are by default larger. More horses means possibly more moves in a race making them harder to predict.

Most punters I know have a bet to make money not throw it away. Hard to make money if the dividends are prohibitive to actually giving you a chance to make a profit. Lower number of horses in a race = lower dividends. Simple math.

That is why big fields on grass are all the rage in New Zealand. Everyone is trying to get a slice of those $20,000 first fours and $8000 trifectas. Not to mention the $20,000 quaddies. 

We don't want the $20 trifectas and $50 first fours the fields at Cambridge are going to throw up tonight. Why risk your money for no reward. Once again the stats will prove it. No one will bet at this meeting the turnover will be proof of that.

Well that is all good comment , from a punting perspective, and happens at the gallops meetings all the time, whether big city ones or country track meetings.

The issue I had /have is if you don't run races for the 'POOR'  players like Waikato you won't have AS MANY participants because they're Not playing anymore . You see this in the North Island already.

and then you slam the Waikato meeting today  because you can't get a bet on . (when really betting is available if you look in the right places, just like taking Crystal at Manawatu for example) 

But anyway , you can see the 'Sands' shifting in the South Island too. 

The HRNZ tried to 'sure-up ' the Southland horses with a series ,( that met criticism here on another thread lol ) , breeding numbers are declining. 

Some bigger stables are Smaller (esp Allstars) and Dunns are down on their usual output and are like Mark Jones , The Hopes, and Houses seeing what they can get out of the country races. Thus taking the money the 'Local' small time owners and trainers would of got on the grass, Sundays, or midweek.

Telfers, Cullen ,Todd,   Barry Purdon, Dalgety (and sometimes the Allstars dreggs)  meanwhile clean up the METRO class Group races ( the few the Aussies haven't taken off you the past 3 years in near a complete ROUT nearly) 

times are tough.

You need more meetings like today ,MORe than you know.  The Battlers HAVE to GET a GO and a WIN. you're nearly extinct and can't see it for dollar signs from a bloody imaginary trifecta or first 4 big win lol. 

I wonder how many other sports get trashed by punters?  . None I know of. probably just harness? . such a shame as has had such great tradition and is a fine spectacle (and participation) sport.  death bell tolls in NZ .  

 

 

[the galah]

18 hours ago, Gammalite said:

An embarrassment ?? people having fun with their sport. Why do you have to get involved as a Naysayer of the sport anyway ? go and do some knitting or something. 

Best think ever is  that HRNZ LOOKING after the Grass roots people with SLOW horses,  so they can have fun .

The GAlah was calling for HRNZ to look after the 'grass roots ' .You guys all saying the Elite getting looked after too well ??  🤣  here they are doing it. HRNZ looking after the slow ones , and then get an 'abortion of a comment 'like yours ,😄

that's pretty funny.

 

i agree with you on this one,with a couple of caveats. 

I believe HRNZ is doing the right thing running these tuesday meetings and should be congragulated for having made those changes.

especially in canterbury,where the horse numbers justify these meetings .

As you say,owners trainers,drivers all those other people employed by the industry earning income to support their families maintain their presence in the industry.Breeders getting enjoyment and recognition seeing their horses race,whatever the level. everything inter related flowing in a way that is positive.

My caveat is when they hold these meetings with small numbers,like todays at cambridge,they need to stipulate that they will run them,but stakemoney will be reduced based on the number of horses running in each race.

e.g. they could stipulate they have a base stake of $4000 which goes up $1000  every extra 2 horses above 5,capped at $8000. In other words a 6-7 horse field runs for $5000,and 8-9 horse field $6000,etc. 

theres no way they should be running 5 horse fields for $8000. Its fiscally irresponsible.

i don't know why they don't already do that.

Of course,when doing that,they must reduce the handicapping penalties accordingly. e.g. a non win low stake race winner could remain eligible for other non win races before getting any further penalties or could get a small penalty,and then if it hasn't earned x amount of $ within a time frame, can drop back to its previous grade. Too many non win horses who win a low stake raceday struggle in the next grade and just disappear when they could be kept in training,boost starter numbers ,knowing they will get the chance to compete back in a grade that they really are more comfortable at. I could name dozens of horses who win a low grade non win stake and if you put them back in a non win race, you  would still be thinking they will take a wee bit of time to win again.

18 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Just up the road from me tonight a few horses are racing at Redcliffe . The slowest of the slow 🤣.  an extra meeting so they can have some fun. only $4000 races. winners get $2300 I think. 7 Winners getting a weeks wages .

And NOBODY here is calling it an abortion or an Embarassment in the slightest  ( or are betting on them lol🤣 )    Racing QLD has put up some races for them to get a WINNER.  How IMPORTANT that is , to keep them happy. 

Great to see HRNZ trying to do the same tomorrow in the Waikato 👍👍 it's how harness racing can Survive.

see heres the thing gammalite.

Most believe HRNZ are eroding their reserves by paying higher stakes than is fiscally responsible, Turnovers show too many races are being run at a loss.

The best analogy to descibe it is.,

Hrnz has come to a crossroads.

to the right is a road which starts off on an easy decline,paved with stakes at its current level (and lots of bonuses if you drive an expensive car),but your fully aware that down that road,not that many years away, the road will come to a hill which you can see will get steeper and steeper, the more you progress along it and that road is paved with ever decreasing stake levels...

To the left,is a road which starts off with a very slight rise,its not easy,but you can handle it.its paved with slightly reduced stake levels,but still at a level where you can prosper and make a living,plan for the future, or at least have a bit of fun and get some return,and that road continues exactly the same for years to come,just that slight rise,but you get used to it and live within your means.

well HRNZ have turned right and they are enjoying their ride,looking out the windows are the good stakes,patting each other on the back ,their driver telling everyone have confident he is they took the right turn.. But  the thingi s when they hit that steep hill,they're going to find they are going to have to start losing passengers just to make  ever slowing progress.

strange thing was,when they turned right,the map they were looking at cleary showed the big hill they were heading towards.

in the not too distant future,everyone going to be saying,they should have turned left.

Edited 55 minutes ago by the galah

[Brodie]

5 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Well that is all good comment , from a punting perspective, and happens at the gallops meetings all the time, whether big city ones or country track meetings.

The issue I had /have is if you don't run races for the 'POOR'  players like Waikato you won't have AS MANY participants because they're Not playing anymore . You see this in the North Island already.

and then you slam the Waikato meeting today  because you can't get a bet on . (when really betting is available if you look in the right places, just like taking Crystal at Manawatu for example) 

But anyway , you can see the 'Sands' shifting in the South Island too. 

The HRNZ tried to 'sure-up ' the Southland horses with a series ,( that met criticism here on another thread lol ) , breeding numbers are declining. 

Some bigger stables are Smaller (esp Allstars) and Dunns are down on their usual output and are like Mark Jones , The Hopes, and Houses seeing what they can get out of the country races. Thus taking the money the 'Local' small time owners and trainers would of got on the grass, Sundays, or midweek.

Telfers, Cullen ,Todd,   Barry Purdon, Dalgety (and sometimes the Allstars dreggs)  meanwhile clean up the METRO class Group races ( the few the Aussies haven't taken off you the past 3 years in near a complete ROUT nearly) 

times are tough.

You need more meetings like today ,MORe than you know.  The Battlers HAVE to GET a GO and a WIN. you're nearly extinct and can't see it for dollar signs from a bloody imaginary trifecta or first 4 big win lol. 

I wonder how many other sports get trashed by punters?  . None I know of. probably just harness? . such a shame as has had such great tradition and is a fine spectacle (and participation) sport.  death bell tolls in NZ .  

 

 

Gamma, you are totally correct about death bell tolls for harness without doubt unless the ones make decisions actually start running it as a business!

 The fact is that those making the decisions are getting paid handsomely at the moment and so it is not them that are going to suffer financially!

Seriously if it was coming out if their own pocket there would be no way on earth they would be blowing the one chance harness had of surviving.

Just very disappointing that we have people in roles that are just not up to the task.

 

[Withadream2]

18 minutes ago, the galah said:

believe HRNZ is doing the right thing running these tuesday meetings and should be congragulated for having made those changes.

Excellent point Galah

[Withadream2]

20 minutes ago, the galah said:

Of course,when doing that,they must reduce the handicapping penalties accordingly. e.g. a non win low stake race winner could remain eligible for other non win races before getting any further penalties or could get a small penalty,and then if it hasn't earned x amount of $ within a time frame, can drop back to its previous grade

Galah, That’s exactly the kind of thinking we need on the HRNZ board. 

[Nowornever]

27 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

and then you slam the Waikato meeting today  because you can't get a bet on . (when really betting is available if you look in the right places, just like taking Crystal at Manawatu for example) 

Don't get me wrong I can get a bet on but it is not worth me doing so. Yes the fields are easier to predict but the risk is not worth the reward so I will not bet like many others. Yes you will still get the "bet on two flies running up the wall compulsive gamblers" having a go and I suppose Entain is relying on those punters keeping these meeting viable.