harness 5000

[the galah]

so hrnz have come up with a series designed to support the people who bred their mares to stallions who cost $5000 or less.

They say the concept is to support people at the grass roots level.

a $720,000 stakes raceday consisting of 12 races run for $60,000.

Now i get what HRNZ are trying to do. They have received significant criticism for prioritising the top end and doing next to nothing for the grassroots level.

So,i give them points for trying with this new concept.

But what i don't get is why they came up with the concept of only people with horses who spent under $5000 on a stallion.

My criticism of HRNZ has always been for 2 main reasons.

1)they haven't been fiscally responsible with their spending on stakes on top end races. put simply,they aren't erning enough to spend as they have been.

so,its apparent how they think,in effect overspend even more to keep more people happy by providing races with good stakes.

i just don't get how that makes any sense.

2)you can't prioritise one group ahead of another, In other words everyone has to get a fair go.

When they have limited the series to stallions $5,000 or under,they have prioritised that group of people. And the strange thing about that is how they seem to think $5000 is the magical figure that grass roots people max out on when breeding their mares.

I just don't get how thats fair to people at the grassroots level who have spent more than $5,000 on a stallion.

I just look out the window and see a couple we have and think,well that would have excluded them had we still been going, as we spent $6,000.  But whether it be $5,000 or $10000 or whatever,isn't the point,the point is the type of races and the level at which they participate.

and also lets not forget,even the elite like the jones /hopes/dalgeties and the like have owners/breeders who race many bred and butter horses,whom are by sires they paid relatively high stud fees for. Why are the owners of those horses not included.

so i don't think prioritising any group is a good thing.

so Hrnz are at least trying,but I just don't think they have come up with a way that gets the greatest impact.

actually is was watching a programme on the catholic church in poland the other night and it was discussing declining numbers that were going to churches over there. 

They highlighted how a couple of churches were doing great numbers wise and bucked the trend. They interviewed the priest at one of thoses busy churches and he said the church should be focussing on connecting with people at the grassroots level more like he was and not focussing as much as what goes on higher up..No matter what it may be,that is always the way things should flow.

Edited 4 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

yes it seems a way to encourage people to use Cheaper stallions for their mare instead of the risk in paying the $30k for Captain Treacherous and that. a large amount to just get a foal. might as well just go and buy a yearling at the sales ?.  a yearling that looks great right in front of you at the sale. 

So a scheme like this you mention gives an owner a chance at Winning a race with out any Big Winning stallions in it ?.  I guess there's a chance of small time stallions getting more Mares? but really ? it's like aiming for the basement instead of the penthouse lol 😁 once you have a ' cheap 'horse you're generally stuck with it lol. bloodlines are reasonably important to increase your chances of winning races. (as proven through history really)

The quality of race horse in it (the new races) will  seem low then ? , thus would be not creating an event good for publicity and encouragement in the Sport.

Unlike a Slot race , or a Sires Stakes Series or similar, that draws the best horses and gets good publicity and long range aspirations for the big players to stay in the sport. You NEED the Big players . And BIG PRIZE races. the Sport will be DECEASED with out their support.  If you rely on tiny bit players (you call them grass root)  the sport would end up like Tasmania with cheap syndicate horses , running in cheap races, that no one has heard of, and no-one bets on. 

Perhaps a better idea is to have a $10k + bonus for Any horse upon it's first Race win.? gives the owner/breeder something to aim for . at all levels. 

  

[Brodie]

39 minutes ago, the galah said:

so hrnz have come up with a series designed to support the people who bred their mares to stallions who cost $5000 or less.

They say the concept is to support people at the grass roots level.

a $720,000 stakes raceday consisting of 12 races run for $60,000.

Now i get what HRNZ are trying to do. They have received significant criticism for prioritising the top end and doing next to nothing for the grassroots level.

So,i give them points for trying with this new concept.

But what i don't get is why they came up with the concept of only people with horses who spent under $5000 on a stallion.

My criticism of HRNZ has always been for 2 main reasons.

1)they haven't been fiscally responsible with their spending on stakes on top end races. put simply,they aren't erning enough to spend as they have been.

so,its apparent how they think,in effect overspend even more to keep more people happy by providing races with good stakes.

i just don't get how that makes any sense.

2)you can't prioritise one group ahead of another, In other words everyone has to get a fair go.

When they have limited the series to stallions $5,000 or under,they have prioritised that group of people. And the strange thing about that is how they seem to think $5000 is the magical figure that grass roots people max out on when breeding their mares.

I just don't get how thats fair to people at the grassroots level who have spent more than $5,000 on a stallion.

I just look out the window and see a couple we have and think,well that would have excluded them had we still been going, as we spent $6,000.  But whether it be $5,000 or $10000 or whatever,isn't the point,the point is the type of races and the level at which they participate.

and also lets not forget,even the elite like the jones /hopes/dalgeties and the like have owners/breeders who race many bred and butter horses,whom are by sires they paid relatively high stud fees for. Why are the owners of those horses not included.

so i don't think prioritising any group is a good thing.

so Hrnz are at least trying,but I just don't think they have come up with a way that gets the greatest impact.

actually is was watching a programme on the catholic church in poland the other night and it was discussing declining numbers that were going to churches over there. 

They highlighted how a couple of churches were doing great numbers wise and bucked the trend. They interviewed the priest at one of thoses busy churches and he said the church should be focussing on connecting with people at the grassroots level more like he was and not focussing as much as what goes on higher up..No matter what it may be,that is always the way things should flow.

Pleased you started the post Galah!

Great that HRNZ are trying things and easy to pick faults in anything!

Firstly this initiative is only possible due to the funds being gifted from Entain as it would not be possible from racing profits!

The elephant in the room is just not being addressed and this is the problem.

How many stallions are eligible for being under the $5k?

Personally think it is going to be hard to fill these 12 races with horses that qualify in several of the categories?

Seems a helluva big stake to be racing for and just seems like get rid of the Entain cash splash without any future forward gains?

Spend it while we are getting it appears to be the attitude doesnt it?

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Brodie

[TAB For Ever]

 Out spoken Industry participants are highly critical of this new '.raceday ' involving progeny of 'low cost ' stallions.

Firstly cos it on the same time as Invercargill Cup day ,the big day down South and close to the rich Golden  Gait day in Auckland.

So these clashes seen as spreading the supply of horses too slim and questioning whether there are even enough numbers of this category of horse to fill the fields.

HRNZ claim to have tweaked the Calendar to give a better 'flow' so time will tell.

The "Aces' series which was run late November for 2 yr olds at Addington in 2024 has been scrapped.

[Gammalite]

30 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Out spoken Industry participants are highly critical of this new '.raceday ' involving progeny of 'low cost ' stallions.

yes it is hard to imagine someone sitting there thinking , I'll go to that stallion with my mare next year to get a foal that can race in a -$5k service fee race. Sires Stakes racing much better.

On breeding , 3 of my All time favourites for Ability ( Tiger Tara, Lazarus and Leap To Fame ) all by Bettors D, looked a chance of being the 'next Generation' Stallions . BUT....

the Tiger Tara's are doing nothing , so he stands for just $3,500 now . Lazarus showing at $5000 fee I think , might change this year. Opinion is devided  ? some say ok , some say underperforming ?'.

so doubt I would rush off to 'Leap To Fame' when he retires without considering other options for my mare.  It's a fickle game the breeding.😁

anyone said to you anything TABman ? about the Lazarus stock ?  

[Brodie]

Great that Chief runs BOAY to enable people to discuss things racing!

Firstly, no one is going to be breeding next year to $5k stallions so they can race in these $60k races!

This will be a one off just to get rid of the Entain promised money, and HRNZ are doing this very well going by the many poor decisions bring made.

Not sorry to state that we can have absolutely no confidence in the future of harness racing in this country if we believe that  those making the decisions currently, have its best interests at heart!!

No media beef up is going to help things, and there is no way on earth any successful business would be operating like this.

Anyway, nothing anyone on BOAY can do or say that will stop this wasteful spending that will end poorly for harness racing in NZ!

We need this committee formed ASAP and potentially take control of what is happening.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Brodie said:

Pleased you started the post Galah!

Great that HRNZ are trying things and easy to pick faults in anything!

Firstly this initiative is only possible due to the funds being gifted from Entain as it would not be possible from racing profits!

The elephant in the room is just not being addressed and this is the problem.

How many stallions are eligible for being under the $5k?

Personally think it is going to be hard to fill these 12 races with horses that qualify in several of the categories?

Seems a helluva big stake to be racing for and just seems like get rid of the Entain cash splash without any future forward gains?

Spend it while we are getting it appears to be the attitude doesnt it?

 

i agree that at least they seemed to have recognised the need to attempt to support other sectors ,other than the elite.

Personally i think the horse has bolted in that respect.But at least they are trying.

In the nz standardbred stallion book for 2024-25,half the pacing stallions are $5000 or under and 2/3 of the trotting stallions are.

Whats relevant is not todays %,but the historical % for the years,which the grouip of horses eligible for the newly announced races came from.I assume it wouldn't be that much different.

but i agree with you,how can they sustain such spending in years to come?

Edited 31 minutes ago by the galah

[the galah]

2 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 Out spoken Industry participants are highly critical of this new '.raceday ' involving progeny of 'low cost ' stallions.

Firstly cos it on the same time as Invercargill Cup day ,the big day down South and close to the rich Golden  Gait day in Auckland.

So these clashes seen as spreading the supply of horses too slim and questioning whether there are even enough numbers of this category of horse to fill the fields.

HRNZ claim to have tweaked the Calendar to give a better 'flow' so time will tell.

The "Aces' series which was run late November for 2 yr olds at Addington in 2024 has been scrapped.

I hope the same people who are outspoken about "involving progeny of low cost stallions", are being consistent when they criticise prioritising one sector over another.

In other words,if they are going to criticise the latest scheme,,then they should also have criticised the 2 year old bonuses which did exactly the same thing.

thats what i'm doing,being consistent.

i'm not sure who you are referring to,but if people aren't consistent then i think it would be easy enough to see their hypocritical thinking and self interest motives.

you mention the golden gait.

is that going to be run again.

can you explain to us how a club that is so financially rooted,can still run such an expensive/loss making meeting. Hang on,the answer is in that sentence isn't it.