race 1 invercargill start

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Yes , the Crusaders have been my team in the Professional area so I attended many of their games , even coached and refereed some of their players when they were younger ! 

Which ones?

[TAB For Ever]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Bullshit.  Geez you can spin a yarn.  When was "a while back"?  They didn't import "dozens of great players" either.  The did select players that had potential that no one else wanted and turned them into great players.  Norm Berryman, Caleb Ralph, Norm Maxwell were the early ones.  

Auckland and Canterbury both went through periods of being unbeatable - neither held a mortgage on it.  Auckland Rugby lost its way when they abandoned club rugby and focussed on senior school rugby.  Canterbury focussed on both as well as drawing in the rest of the Crusader franchise.  Auckland abandoned their neighbouring Unions as well.  Canterbury didn't. 

I guess in that respect there are parallels with what has happened at Alexandra Park and the ATC.

Why bail Auckland out?

That a bit rude Chief........it can't be BS if it true and reasonable .

Robbie Deans and Carter and a few others were true born , bred and developed Cantabs but vital imports came from all over.

Q,...Check the Crusaders Hall Of Fame and pick out the non-imports !

Hall of Fame.......Todd Blackadder , JMarshall , W.Smith , NMaxwell, LMacDonald , RThorne , C.Ralph , MHammett , GSomerville.

No doubt soon to be joined by CTaylor, Scott Robertson and the legends RMcCaw , KRead , BThorne , Sonny Bill ,Scott Barrett and a few Fijian game winners.

Answer the question correctly and I'll send an unworn pair of BGP sox , and maybe my unworn BGP polo shirt !

Edited yesterday at 04:45 AM by TAB For Ever
typo

[mikeynz]

33 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Doubt if you see too many Asians lurking around your cave area down in the deep south ! They prefer cities where there are things to do and opportunities to create businesses and money making ventures !

Considering one lives in a strong dairy area, where our main  industry's  in a honest field is much smarter than living in  the rat race where the smartest shithouse rats survive off the less smart ones, you really are a deluded fuck sometime.

Edited yesterday at 04:54 AM by mikeynz

[mikeynz]

I will stress in no way do I dislike Asians in any shape or form, they probably find Auckland a little place as compared to where they come from, maybe in a few years it will be all Asians, so it's not looking good for Auckland Rugby but  that remains to be seen.

Edited yesterday at 05:08 AM by mikeynz

[TAB For Ever]

30 minutes ago, mikeynz said:

Considering one lives in a strong dairy area, where our main  industry's  in a honest field is much smarter than living in  the rat race where the smartest shithouse rats survive off the less smart ones, you really are a deluded fuck sometime.

Well you'd better watch out......the deep south has always had great dairy farms but that didn't stop them from nearly slipping off the map.

Had to bring in Tim Shadbolt from West Auckland to save the deep south !

And instead of spending your time checking out the tote-pools you should go outside and check around.

Highly likely that the lovely farms at least partly owned [ and growing] by multi-national firms/funds including most Asian countries.

And why are Dairy sales booming........these neighbouring farms have huge imports to most Asian countries !

China ,the biggest but Thailand ,Malaysia ,Indonesia and Phillipines too !

And little old you , on-line , feeling smug and making rascist comments !

 

[mikeynz]

14 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Well you'd better watch out......the deep south has always had great dairy farms but that didn't stop them from nearly slipping off the map.

Had to bring in Tim Shadbolt from West Auckland to save the deep south !

And instead of spending your time checking out the tote-pools you should go outside and check around.

Highly likely that the lovely farms at least partly owned [ and growing] by multi-national firms/funds including most Asian countries.

And why are Dairy sales booming........these neighbouring farms have huge imports to most Asian countries !

China ,the biggest but Thailand ,Malaysia ,Indonesia and Phillipines too !

And little old you , on-line , feeling smug and making rascist comments !

 

I think you've been sitting in traffic jams a bit too much, might be the heavy air at this time of year, think you've been inhaling a bit too much carbon monoxide, it does effect people sometimes lol.

Up the Wahs lol.

Edited yesterday at 05:46 AM by mikeynz

[mikeynz]

TABman, you only get shit if you talk shit, when you give up I will give up, maybe 😁

[the galah]

1 hour ago, TAB For Ever said:

My reference was to your comment that the HRNZ Chair was on NZRFU Board.....no......he linked to Crusaders !

better tell him to stop gatecrashing nz rugby board meetings. Cheeky bugga.

Edited yesterday at 06:11 AM by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

2 hours ago, mikeynz said:

I think you've been sitting in traffic jams a bit too much, might be the heavy air at this time of year, think you've been inhaling a bit too much carbon monoxide, it does effect people sometimes lol.

Up the Wahs lol.

Hahaha......you really are a doozy , its widely accepted/proven that the 10 cities in NZ with the worst Air Quality/pollution are in the South Island with the southern cities among the very worst !

And I've lived in 3 of them !

Conversely ,Auckland is among the best !.......its on the water with excellent sea breezes . Rated #1.

So back to the Cave champ ,or is it under a rock ?

[mikeynz]

28 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Hahaha......you really are a doozy , its widely accepted/proven that the 10 cities in NZ with the worst Air Quality/pollution are in the South Island with the southern cities among the very worst !

And I've lived in 3 of them !

Conversely ,Auckland is among the best !.......its on the water with excellent sea breezes . Rated #1.

So back to the Cave champ ,or is it under a rock ?

What you get that nice sea breeze blowing off the shit littering the beaches as youv got too many arseholes living there now ?

Now come on TAB we agree to disagree on things but when your ready to give up I will let you , no questions asked lol.

Certainly a character all right.

Edited 22 hours ago by mikeynz

[TAB For Ever]

10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why bail Auckland out?

No need for a bail out but a hands up would be nice and well justified to try and future - proof a struggling industry !

Clearly the ATC has a proven track record of running a profitable and successful club in Harness. Up to last 10 years !

Clearly it among the top two tracks in NZ , and is one of only 4 x tracks that operate with lights at night.Its facilities/infrastructure clearly in the top two.

In the past it has hosted Australasia's top event many times.....the Interdominions and it regularly still hosts many of NZ's top races.

The Infrastructure is overall quite sound ,and the track with recent changes can cope with heavy rain.. People visiting for first time and/or Australians are very impressed. Close to International Airport and close to ample accommodation [for horses and people] and to the CBD.

The region currently has several of NZ's best Studs /breeders ,trainers and drivers who are currently reluctant to relocate.

The Club houses NZ's busiest TAB and other businesses which bring in revenue. Pokies earn approx $2 mil pa.

What it does need is an energetic marketing/promotions team to create more regular attendees and attract younger members cos current ones mostly 60 yrs plus .

And investment into horse ownership to help increase horse numbers.

And  the most POSITIVE figure in their handbag is the overall  Equity situation.

A 31 July 2024 it was $93 million.....so net assets of $93m , and it compares with $46 mil  in 2013 when the Club members agreed to build the apartments so every race would be a minimum of $30k.

Obviously in the top two [with NZ Met ] but probably #1. , so the 'wealthiest ' club in NZ.I haven't checked this.

Believe it or not ,what Industry would even consider kneecapping its wealthiest club . ?

[Chief Stipe]

14 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

A 31 July 2024 it was $93 million.....so net assets of $93m , and it compares with $46 mil  in 2013 when the Club members agreed to build the apartments so every race would be a minimum of $30k.

Geez here was me thinking you were an accountant.

The $94m in equity (2024) has a bit of smoke and mirrors feel to it.  It is down $14.6m in one year.  

That 2024 year the ATC had an operating loss of $14.6m.  Most of that from revaluations and finance costs.  I imagine the equity situation has worsened in the 2025 year.

[the galah]

24 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Geez here was me thinking you were an accountant.

The $94m in equity (2024) has a bit of smoke and mirrors feel to it.  It is down $14.6m in one year.  

That 2024 year the ATC had an operating loss of $14.6m.  Most of that from revaluations and finance costs.  I imagine the equity situation has worsened in the 2025 year.

you have to give him points for trying. He seems to be making reasonable observations,even if we know its not a big picture take on things.

Edited 7 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

18 minutes ago, the galah said:

you have to give him points for trying. He seems to be making reasonable observations,even if we know its not a big picture take on things.

I think if you look at Global (big picture) NZ is still doing ok for the Entain company . Aus is struggling a bit .

The economy and housing crisis in Aus is getting worse, and the gambling dollar is waaay less than it used to be . I even heard someone say they were thinking of shifting to NZ the other day ???? never heard that before for donkey years. 

Like I mentioned somewhere the Europe Football season starts very soon ( and NRL and AFL will be completed next month) which haven't been great betting contests this year at all. So some BIG Bets will start flying about to keep them all Happy. and of course the Spring Racing will begin. A lot of Punters have Winter off these days too. 

here's some ENTAIN figures I just found >

Revenue by destination reported showed that for the six months up until June 30, revenue across Australia and New Zealand had fallen to £257.1 million ($A530 million), down £24.1 million ($A50 million) compared to the same period last year.

The other detail to come out of the half-yearly report was that Australian NGR had fallen 7 per cent year-on-year, while New Zealand’s has increased 12 per cent.

[Chief Stipe]

I'm surprised @Gammalite you didn't pick up in the same report that ENTAIN had set aside $100m as a contingency in the accounts for an AUSTRAC fine and that mediation was still in process.  They emphasised that the $100m was just a placeholder and not an indication of where negotiations were at.

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

 

The economy and housing crisis in Aus is getting worse, and the gambling dollar is waaay less than it used to be . I even heard someone say they were thinking of shifting to NZ the other day ???? never heard that before for donkey years. 

 

yes the economy and housing  obviously has flow on effects on everything,including racing.

we all know the rich get richer and the poor are struglling more and more. Ain't going to change.

people are lucky enough in nz to have the government top up payment of  their rents if they have nothing and theres more and more of that going on because if you rent for a reasonable period of time,you just go through your savings as rents and just living is more than you get,unless in a well paid job. Then you get to the point where you have bugger all left and at that point the governmant will step and top up paying your rent. People in that position still only live week to week but at least the government allows them to have a roof over their heads and hopefully stay warm.there would be heaps and heaps of households in nz getting top ups of around $300 extra, just so they can pay rent and get basic food requirements.I don't think people realise just how desparate it is for many and how much the government is paying out to wealthy landlords.

its a bit like people who go into rest homes here. They use up their savings or value of assets to a certain point,then the government starts paying for their rest home care. e.g. i think if your partner has died you are still allowed just under $300,000 and thats when the government start paying for your st home care. The government  of course take any benefit you may be getting.if your above that you have to pay it yourself. it varies if both you and your wife are still alive and  whether one or two needs care. sometimes the formula. But whats obvious is if you live any reasonable amount of time once you go into a rest home care,you go through savings quickly. it seems rest homes  cost around $1500 a week these days,dependings where they are and the level of care.

but the rest home thing is the same as the renting thing,the rich emply people like accountants or solicitors to work around things with things like trusts,so they get the full government subsidy right from the start.when it comes time.

The rich get richer and average joe bloggs and their family  get poorer. just the way it works.

its like the government recently spent 50 million on uncovering benefit fraud recently underthe current government. They investigated uncovered benefit fraud of around 700,but only prosecuted 33. those 33 fraud only amounted to undert 3 million. That differs a wee bit from a labour union man who told me that recently  the governemnt had spent 50 million and got back 50 million. i guess the difference being they didn't prosecute many that had been overpaid.

but heres the thing ,the labour unuion man said the government could have spent far lesss or even the same investigating fraud of those who are wealthy and it was obvious from figures that they would have uncovered far greater fraud and overpayments,but the current govenmenyt chose to focus on those on benefites and not the people who vote for national or act.

all thats just the way it is,the way the world works,and all it means is wealth is going into fewer hands and the bottom end struggle even more,even though they are lucky to get the handouts.

Edited 5 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm surprised @Gammalite you didn't pick up in the same report that ENTAIN had set aside $100m as a contingency in the accounts for an AUSTRAC fine and that mediation was still in process.  They emphasised that the $100m was just a placeholder and not an indication of where negotiations were at.

Star Entertainment are trying for that $100,000,000 fine from AUSTRAC as $400mill Fine would see them go Insolvent. In the Federal court for Money Laundering Penalties from 2022. 

some blokes mentioned here ENTAIN are way better managed (globally) financially and would cope ok. I don't necessary think it's smooth though as 11 executives have had to vacate their positions for various failings in recent times. 

Thankfully just this week a deal for the Star Entertainment Group,  has been brokered with it's Chinese business partners that see's a portion of the New Queen's Wharf development in Brisbane Sold off to cover some Debts due on Sept 5th of $31mill.

2 minutes ago, the galah said:

The rich get richer and average joe bloggs and their family  get poorer. just the way it works.

Even hard for the Rich nowadays Mr Galah. 

James Packer sold off All the CROWN Casino's and Resorts to Blackstone (a USA giant ) in 2022 and just dabbles in Property and Shares now ,just like any other wealthier person in the community these days. tough times lol 🤣

Star Entertainment are selling out to the Chinese to stay afloat . mainly from Debt from a huge New development in Brisbane. I visited it the other day , and is quite impressive. was just a soggy mangrove bank on the river for years lol. the Gold Coast highway Main road actually goes 'Underneath' it now and you can look down on it from 76 floors up. 

Star are still battling the Federal court casee though.

A deal with the two investors significantly improves Star’s financial position, taking more than $700 million in liabilities off its books and more than $350 million in development costs.

Star first announced plans in March to sell its 50 per cent stake of Queen’s Wharf in Brisbane to Chow Tai Fook and Far East. The preliminary agreement, which was supposed to be finalised in April, gave Star control of two towers on the Gold Coast and a $53 million lifeline that saved the company from collapse.

The three business partners were at odds over key components of the transaction, primarily Star’s ability to continue operating the Brisbane casino.

Under the new deal, Star will manage the casino for a monthly fee of $5 million until March. That fee will increase to $6 million in the 2027 financial year and $7 million in 2028 if the casino group is still running the gaming floors.

[TAB For Ever]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Geez here was me thinking you were an accountant.

The $94m in equity (2024) has a bit of smoke and mirrors feel to it.  It is down $14.6m in one year.  

That 2024 year the ATC had an operating loss of $14.6m.  Most of that from revaluations and finance costs.  I imagine the equity situation has worsened in the 2025 year.

Yes ,it probably /may be down a little but must be in the ball park !

I just pointing out something that is overlooked in discussions re ATC. 

Yes these big numbers dip and dive a bit...the original offer for Pukekohe was for $100m including a $10mill deposit. The buyer didn't front up and left the $10 mil behind.

Now the offer $70 mil with some doubts too.

July 2024 are the last published accounts .

Net assets in July 2022 were $113 mil ! 

Whatever the equity is it still well up there in total equity  !! This smoke and mirrors gives some hope !

HRNZ should consider assistance with a training centre.....not necessarily a bail out , more a heads up to assist the Industry into the future.

What do you think should happen ?

[Chief Stipe]

12 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

Yes ,it probably /may be down a little but must be in the ball park !

I just pointing out something that is overlooked in discussions re ATC. 

Yes these big numbers dip and dive a bit...the original offer for Pukekohe was for $100m including a $10mill deposit. The buyer didn't front up and left the $10 mil behind.

Now the offer $70 mil with some doubts too.

July 2024 are the last published accounts .

Net assets in July 2022 were $113 mil ! 

Whatever the equity is it still well up there in total equity  !! This smoke and mirrors gives some hope !

The equity in 2021 was $128.5m.

So between then and 2024 $34.5m in equity has been lost!  Enough to probably pay ENTAIN's upcoming AUSTRAC fine!  So seems to more dive than dip.

Even if they sold Pukekohe for $70m they'd still be owing $10m in debt.

[the galah]

18 hours ago, TAB For Ever said:

 its widely accepted/proven that the 10 cities in NZ with the worst Air Quality/pollution are in the South Island with the southern cities among the very worst !

And I've lived in 3 of them !

Conversely ,Auckland is among the best !.......its on the water with excellent sea breezes . Rated #1.

 

air quality is something i've followed for a while now.

Yes invercargill is in the worst couple in nz..Timaru used to have the worst air in australasia for quite a few years and i think its nelson that also has historically had poorer air qualty at times.

people just don't realsie how air quality can impact their health down the track. I remember talking to someone once whose wife was in getting treated for lung cancer at 30,never smoked. He told me how doctors had told him they saw far more lung cancers from the 3 areas mentioned and believed it was  due to air quality.

all you have to do is look at the mortailty figures relating to unexpected premarute death rates and their was always a pattern for the cities with the bad air..

theres lots of reasons for air pollution. like invercargill was a lot to do with heating in the winter,auckland does have good air, their pollution was more to do with traffic and other areas it could be a combination of industrial or even the likes of a ship unloading cement into a silo at a port.

but the point being,your lungs and your hearts can be effected by bad air.

the thing i find strange about governments approach to air pollution is,they have allowed all this urban sprawl and that effects air quality. On one hand we had labour promoting selling off good farmland, which created jobs,instead prioritising the planting of trees,all the while allowing the continuation of urban sprawl. So much of what happens seems poorly though out. I see the farming sector are hoping the current government will see sense and pass a law stopping overseas companies buying up good farmland and using that as a big picture  excuse to keep polluting in another part of the world. 

anyways,back to air quality,even if you drive into the likes of christchurch,say from halswell you see this soft gey cloud sitting the city side of the hills. Thats not good. gully type area are bad for pollution.It may not be the noticeable big brown cloud you get at a couple of the previously mentioned nz cities,but its there .

and then you thow in the effects of covid and throw in the effects of the covid vaccine. 

i feel like fraser from dads army,we're doomed,all doomed.

theres a cherry note to end my post on(,depending of course where you live)

Edited 4 hours ago by the galah

[TAB For Ever]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

The equity in 2021 was $128.5m.

So between then and 2024 $34.5m in equity has been lost!  Enough to probably pay ENTAIN's upcoming AUSTRAC fine!  So seems to more dive than dip.

To help the Cave dwellers and tight five who live in the South , maybe you should point out that this basically cos of Interest on Debt and the drop in Valuations of land etc.

Anyway ,answer a few questions , like What do you think should happen to the ATC and what Crusaders Hall of Famers [ add legendary AB Captains RMcCaw,KRead and SBarrett ] learned their early rugby [say Sec school] in Canterbury ?

[TAB For Ever]

4 minutes ago, the galah said:

air quality is something i've followed for a while now.

Yes invercargill is in the worst couple in nz..Timaru used to have the worst air in australasia for quite a few years and i think its nelson that also has historically had poorer air qualty at times.

people just don't realsie how air quality can impact their health down the track. I remember talking to someone once whose wife was in getting treated for lung cancer at 30,never smoked. He told me how doctors had told him they saw far more lung cancers from the 3 areas mentioned and believed it was  due to air quality.

all you have to do is look at the mortailty figures relating to unexpected premarute death rates and their was always a pattern for the cities with the bad air..

theres lots of reasons for air pollution. like invercargill was a lot to do with heating in the winter,auckland does have good air, their pollution was more to do with traffic and other areas it could be a combination of industrial or even the likes of a ship unloading cement into a silo at a port.

but the point being,your lungs and your hearts can be effected by bad air.

the thing i find strange about governments approach to air pollution is,they have allowed all this urban sprawl and that effects air quality. On one hand we had labour promting selling off good farmland which created jobs,instead prioritising the planting of trees,all the while allowing the continuation of urban sprawl. so much of what happens sems poorly though out. I see the farming sector are hoping the current government will see sense and pass a law stopping overseas companies buying up good farmland and using that as a big picture  excuse to keep polluting in another part of the world.

anyways,back to air quality,even if you drive into the likes of christchurch,say from halswell you see this soft gey clod sitting the city side of the hills. Thats not good. I may not be the noticeable big brown cloud you get at a couple of the previously mentiined nz cities,but its there .

and then you thow in the effects of covid and throw in the effects of the covid vaccine. 

i feel like fraser from dads army,we're doomed,all doomed.

theres a cherry note to end my post on(,depending of course where you live)

Well spoken Galah ......you know a bit of stuff , probably the reason The Chief seems to cut you a bit of slack !!

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, TAB For Ever said:

To help the Cave dwellers and tight five who live in the South , maybe you should point out that this basically cos of Interest on Debt and the drop in Valuations of land etc.

Well that's the problem when you start quoting Equity figures as a sign that all is well when it isn't.  They have an operating loss primarily driven by finance costs.  That isn't financially healthy long term is it?

3 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

What do you think should happen to the ATC

Make it profitable or sell it before there is no equity left.

3 minutes ago, TAB For Ever said:

what Crusaders Hall of Famers [ add legendary AB Captains RMcCaw,KRead and SBarrett ] learned their early rugby [say Sec school] in Canterbury ?

Why does it matter?  They played for the Crusaders end of story.  What's more they WANTED to play for the Crusaders.  Why?  To advance their careers as much as possible.  None of them went to Secondary School in Auckland either.

[Gammalite]

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Even if they sold Pukekohe for $70m they'd still be owing $10m in debt.

While a clearance of the debt is good. The sale of that property would displace around 20 trainers you would think ? Roughly 200 horses. that's is a LOT.  

I'm pretty sure Bernie Hackett /Wallis would be training their large team of trotters there and Jacob Dunn , etc. could this not end the sport with too little competitors able to train properly? 

Maybe Cambridge could build Training barns Like Menangle and Lease them out to some. I guess you can only have so much daily traffic training n the track though (without getting in each others road, etc)  

would they just shift to the South (like Reid) or Australia (like Brosnan) and the sport would not continue ? 

Chief . What did the Galloping Trainers Do at TAKANINI Training tracks, when the Auckland racing club sold the Training course. I started out with trotters right beside there and was devastated to see it go into housing. where did famous trainers like  Verner and Jillings and them go ? did they just all retire at that stage ??

 

 

 

[TAB For Ever]

33 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

While a clearance of the debt is good. The sale of that property would displace around 20 trainers you would think ? Roughly 200 horses. that's is a LOT.  

I'm pretty sure Bernie Hackett /Wallis would be training their large team of trotters there and Jacob Dunn , etc. could this not end the sport with too little competitors able to train properly? 

Maybe Cambridge could build Training barns Like Menangle and Lease them out to some. I guess you can only have so much daily traffic training n the track though (without getting in each others road, etc)  

would they just shift to the South (like Reid) or Australia (like Brosnan) and the sport would not continue ? 

Chief . What did the Galloping Trainers Do at TAKANINI Training tracks, when the Auckland racing club sold the Training course. I started out with trotters right beside there and was devastated to see it go into housing. where did famous trainers like  Verner and Jillings and them go ? did they just all retire at that stage ??

 

 

 

The big push is for a 'new' training establishment with all the mod cons ....thats the plan anyway ! 

There are a few rumours about possible re-location of it so existing trainers with own property can stay put while others who are at the track plus newcomers will be attracted and increase horse numbers !!

Re the Dunn stable. FYI Rhys Fensom seems to be the boss there ! But RJ around a lot !