Field Sizes

[goldilocks]

Surely it is time to limit the numbers starting in standing starts,both the DG Jones trot and the Akaroa cup at the Mot have had two many horses trying to be lined up, took 13 minutes to get them away  yesterday. Any thoughts?

[mikeynz]

35 minutes ago, goldilocks said:

Surely it is time to limit the numbers starting in standing starts,both the DG Jones trot and the Akaroa cup at the Mot have had two many horses trying to be lined up, took 13 minutes to get them away  yesterday. Any thoughts?

Never a problem in the North Island.

[Nowornever]

2 hours ago, goldilocks said:

Surely it is time to limit the numbers starting in standing starts,both the DG Jones trot and the Akaroa cup at the Mot have had two many horses trying to be lined up, took 13 minutes to get them away  yesterday. Any thoughts?

I personally love the big numbers and wish there were 24 in a race like the old days. You will notice the Trifecta pool in that race got up over 27K the highest of the days New Zealand racing including gallops.

If there were only 14 in the race the pool would have been only three quarters of that. 

The race was a good watch and the winning horse came from near last on the turn so I say the more horses the merrier.

[hesi]

I read some data somewhere years ago, admittedly it was for thoroughbreds, that 14 is the optimum number to maximise wagering.

That was totalisator, so not sure if that applies to fixed odds

[the galah]

5 hours ago, goldilocks said:

Surely it is time to limit the numbers starting in standing starts,both the DG Jones trot and the Akaroa cup at the Mot have had two many horses trying to be lined up, took 13 minutes to get them away  yesterday. Any thoughts?

theres too much congestion when you have horses off marks spaced only 10 metres apart.

it would be ok if there was only one line of horses on those marks,but often there are 2 lines, or horses off ur as well.

It appears the problem is compounded  by the track not being as wide as some tracks as evidenced by the lower number of horses they can fit onto a front line at motukarara.

And while i haven't taken much notice of how they parade pre start,i assume they do the same as they do every other race where they have 2 circles off each mark.. Well as i've pointed out many times,the 2 circle formation has its negatives and one is when they turn in the congestion is greater and when you have horses starting on marks 10 metres apart,congestion is even greater..

but would having a smaller field size have helped congestion yesterday.

Well if they had reduced yesterdays field size to 15 instead of the 17 they had,how would that have helped?

Because the 2 less horses who would have been eliminated would have been the only 2 who started off the front and it could be argued that wouldn't have changed anything whatsoever for the better congestion wise, for those behind them,as it wasn't the 2 front line markers causing any of that.

personally i thinkif you look at the way the starter does those starts,they are a bit of a debacle. The horses off the ur are starting behind the horses who are supposed to be starting 10m behind them,you have starters assistants running interference to those who start on marks behind where the starters assistants are. It shouldn't have to be for a horse and driver to guess which way a starters assistant is going to move in front of them,after the start ,like happened yesterday. 

so whats the answer.

well,they need to have a greater distance between the marks the horses start from. i.e. 15 metres instead of 10 metres. If they do that they would just have to have a front line,a 15m line and a 30 metre line,instead of a front,10m,20m and 30m.And why not have a pbd  in a stand to have the horses who were higher assessed,drawn the second line off the 15m and 30m.If they are to keep the marks 10m apart they need to parade them differently in a 1 circle formation for combined marks. They did a 1 circle formation for decades so it should be no biggie. 

2 hours ago, Nowornever said:

I personally love the big numbers and wish there were 24 in a race like the old days. You will notice the Trifecta pool in that race got up over 27K the highest of the days New Zealand racing including gallops.

If there were only 14 in the race the pool would have been only three quarters of that. 

The race was a good watch and the winning horse came from near last on the turn so I say the more horses the merrier.

as to the trifecta pool The figure you give is a huge pool by normal starndards.as you say,the big field must have helped,but also as i've pointed out before,when there are delays to a start,all pools will increase. And when there are significant delays,there can be significant increases in tote pool size. Thats why that fella from the usa said ,the simplest way to increase turnovers is crib an extra minute before they start to line them up. He said when the meadowlands changed to start there races at the carded time,it was one of the worst financial decisions they had made.i know over here they have that many races on trackside,but as i've said before,even changing the starting procedure to say have a flashinglight come on when the all clear comes through then have them do not 1,but 2 rounds before they come in,is a way of increasing turnover while still getting the trackside coverage.i don't know why they don't do something as simple as that.the worst thing any meeting can di to keep turnover down is have then coming up behind the mobile when they are only jst ticking on 0 seconds to the start time. Places like southland could improve their turnover if they just put another starter in charge who wasn't as strict on starting on time.

Edited 19 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

The problem is with field sizes , how fast they go these days.

The only ones to bet on , and that have the best chance these days , are the ones that burn early take a Sit and sprint hard to win .  Is folly to bet on back markers.    ( even at Royal Randwick they struggle these days ) 

We had  Wine Light, Franscent , The Lazarus Effect, Wat Next  and even John Dunn surprisingly taking a sit with Mighty Logan, in the Group 3 feature trot. ALL Five of these curled up nicely behind the leader at the half mile marker , and winning easily in the end.  Addington last Friday.

Marketplace failed from that position , but was beaten by an exceptionally gifted gelding,  in the 3 year old feature 

The Backmarkers were NO CHANCE in those races.  even at Addington on the Big track.

I liked Oscar Bonavena (best trotter in NZ) , and Treacherous Baby (in the G2 Mares classic)  as their trainer driver Mark Purdon is the GOAT in NZ. But they were still Near No chance even in the 12 horse fields. You're just too far back to be a chance or risk your dollars on. so like a lot of people You Don't End up Having a Bet. risk v reward . 

Both OscarB and Treacherous Baby stormed home for 4th, from near last at the quarter mile in their races last Friday. Fat lot of good that does for the 'everyday' punter? . just puts you off. 

14-18 horse fields would mean heaps of losing horses and Consequently Heaps of losing punters. 

Much better idea would be to get 2 fields of 9 runners than one field of 18.  you get 2 Winners. you get 2 trifecta's, you get 2 race pools (that would tally more than one pool would.)  AND You get 2 races where EVERY runner has a chance of winning still at the half mile pole in a race (sadly lacking in a 12 horse + field these days)   sure the tote divvie' might be  smaller , but who is that greedy? , that they're rather see more losers than winners for the sake of a few extra dollars in a pool.

The yanks know best and are the smartest as have run Full 8 horse fields for decades. Every runner , and therefore every Punter a winning Chance in Every Race. At QLD locals we just run 9-10 to give em' all a chance. excellent. 

and IMPORTANTLY , that keeps them in the harness game. ( by racing , owning or even Betting on horses ) 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Gammalite