Entain cutting costs! Writing on the wall?

[Brodie]

10 hours ago, Nowornever said:

Well the industry will pay if Entain can’t get their bottom line up. Owners, trainers, breeders and clubs will cop it through reduced stakes in the long run if overheads do not come down.

Entain guaranteed funding runs out 2027/2028?  After that I presume funding becomes subject to Entains actual performance which based on the red flags over the last few months is not that great.

 

There is absolute no way that stakes are going to be anywhere near as high as what they are currently, once the 5 years is up!

The North Island stakes will be significantly less and costs wont be dropping.

Not sure how much of the $900million has been used up already with stakes and promised bonuses, but someone with financial intelligence needs to be appointed pronto!

Punters need to be encouraged rather than discouraged, despite what they are trying to tell us.

Giving away bonus bets and bonus cash is manipulating  turnover figures.

 

 

[Gammalite]

26 minutes ago, Brodie said:

There is absolute no way that stakes are going to be anywhere near as high as what they are currently, once the 5 years is up!

The North Island stakes will be significantly less and costs wont be dropping.

and deservedly so.

It's lucky they're not low now like the general 4-6 k races they run all round Australia every day. 

But you got lucky and ENTAIN saved the day . (Temporarily you say) It's a Good thing !!! for 5 years you keep saying. In Queensland we are grateful that the ENTAIN group Ladbrokes props us up in the betting market,  so we can race 5-6 race meetings per week for our cohort of about 500 horses. excellent stuff. 

you want to criticise the hand that feeds you ? , but if you didn't get fed ( by Entain) you might of been racing for half the prizemoney they are now  by now already ? . And Deservedly So.

Deservedly = Because you bloke Refuse to support the 'Product' anymore and slander North Island harness altogether, all the innovations , and you can Really get the feeling of how Popular the once great Harness Racing Sport is in New Zealand these days from the CONSTANT Bagging it gets on NZ harness forums lol. eye rolling stuff 🙄 lol😉

At least in Australia we still enjoy the sport (as a sport) and try and keep the small fields going around at Marburg or Globe Derby or Mildura or wherever. Ballarat even has full 10 horse fields tonight going around in $6000 races. 

You are right and that will become the norm in NZ one of these days. Oamaru racing for 10 and 12 K races today is just FAR to MUCH. it will be cut in half one day to 5 and 6 k because of the revenue . no one betting on those poor horses. so yeah ! cut the prizemoney in half and see how it goes from there? 

Why should they get more prizemoney when no-one betting on them ?  Par for the course old mate. A sign of tough financial times for one and all.  

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

 

But you got lucky and ENTAIN saved the day . (Temporarily you say) It's a Good thing !!! for 5 years you keep saying. In Queensland we are grateful that the ENTAIN group Ladbrokes props us up in the betting market,  so we can race 5-6 race meetings per week for our cohort of about 500 horses. excellent stuff. 

you want to criticise the hand that feeds you ? , but if you didn't get fed ( by Entain) you might of been racing for half the prizemoney they are now  by now already ? . And Deservedly So.

Deservedly = Because you bloke Refuse to support the 'Product' anymore and slander North Island harness altogether, all the innovations , and you can Really get the feeling of how Popular the once great Harness Racing Sport is in New Zealand these days from the CONSTANT Bagging it gets on NZ harness forums lol. eye rolling stuff 🙄 lol😉

 

You are right and that will become the norm in NZ one of these days. Oamaru racing for 10 and 12 K races today is just FAR to MUCH. it will be cut in half one day to 5 and 6 k because of the revenue . no one betting on those poor horses. so yeah ! cut the prizemoney in half and see how it goes from there? 

Why should they get more prizemoney when no-one betting on them ?  Par for the course old mate. A sign of tough financial times for one and all.  

you end your post with a comment that seems to accept stake money will be reduced significantly because of the overspending going on at the moment.

while you've also expressed the opinion that the current overspending is a good thing,as its necessary to maintain current participation levels.

So the obvious question is,if you believe maintaining the current stake levels and bonuses and big payout races is necessary to maintain current participation levels,then why don't you think thats going to be relavant when they run out of the money to do that in 3 years time.

Its like,you promote policies that will have a far greater negative impact on the industry in years to come,than was necessary had we had leadership who were fiscally responsible.And you seem to acknowledge  that.

and even if you think the current policies are working,can you then explain how that thinking lines up with the stats that show declining licence holder numbers,mares being bred,field size numbers,turnovers,on course attendance,etc,etc,etc.

[Brodie]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

and deservedly so.

It's lucky they're not low now like the general 4-6 k races they run all round Australia every day. 

But you got lucky and ENTAIN saved the day . (Temporarily you say) It's a Good thing !!! for 5 years you keep saying. In Queensland we are grateful that the ENTAIN group Ladbrokes props us up in the betting market,  so we can race 5-6 race meetings per week for our cohort of about 500 horses. excellent stuff. 

you want to criticise the hand that feeds you ? , but if you didn't get fed ( by Entain) you might of been racing for half the prizemoney they are now  by now already ? . And Deservedly So.

Deservedly = Because you bloke Refuse to support the 'Product' anymore and slander North Island harness altogether, all the innovations , and you can Really get the feeling of how Popular the once great Harness Racing Sport is in New Zealand these days from the CONSTANT Bagging it gets on NZ harness forums lol. eye rolling stuff 🙄 lol😉

At least in Australia we still enjoy the sport (as a sport) and try and keep the small fields going around at Marburg or Globe Derby or Mildura or wherever. Ballarat even has full 10 horse fields tonight going around in $6000 races. 

You are right and that will become the norm in NZ one of these days. Oamaru racing for 10 and 12 K races today is just FAR to MUCH. it will be cut in half one day to 5 and 6 k because of the revenue . no one betting on those poor horses. so yeah ! cut the prizemoney in half and see how it goes from there? 

Why should they get more prizemoney when no-one betting on them ?  Par for the course old mate. A sign of tough financial times for one and all.  

Gamma, exactly you are on the money.

False economics from HRNZ , they are butchering the money from Entain  andgiving false info to participants.

Personally luv the low stake racing far better than the high stake races.

Why is it that we can see the writing on the wall and yet HRNZ can not?

Wonder if has anything to do with being paid big salaries?

[Gammalite]

7 hours ago, the galah said:

So the obvious question is,if you believe maintaining the current stake levels and bonuses and big payout races is necessary to maintain current participation levels,then why don't you think thats going to be relavant when they run out of the money to do that in 3 years time.

there's always a way. There's Sponsors and interested parties such as the stud farms and millionaires who chip in to keep it going.

They already chip in to the large prize Slot races you guys All hate . 

Races are just run to what money sponsors put up at the time .

I went to Tasmania with a few Queenslanders when Blacks A Fake won the Interdominion . He picked up a million dollars as First prize. sometimes Sponsors mean you can race for better money .  other years not so much.

The WAY it's ALWAYS been. ENTAIN /Ladbrokes have been great for harness racing.

I can't condemn their input like you blokes do. we need them as are a good sponsor.  Do they help the NZ Gallops out as well ?  Chief might know ?

[Gammalite]

6 hours ago, Brodie said:

Personally luv the low stake racing far better than the high stake races.

you do need some though.

Those Marketplace v Got The Chocolates clashes this year have been amazing. and you can show off your next 2 NZ Superstars.  generated a bit of excitement . The Velocity and the NZ Derby were very exciting

I've been Spruiking QLDer GUS the trotter to the Galah all year telling him how good he was. Paid $8 there twice , so you punting blokes might of got something. ( I backed GUS the 2nd time in the trotting FFA but missed the first unfortunately )  Good on ya GUS 🏆 . whatta beauty he is. 

Here's Another $8 winner for you Brodster. in the video. 

Shouldn't of paid so much against those very Weak South Island horses. About 8 of them in this video. The good horse tried to show some LEAP TO FAME death seat toughness though. great memories mate 😁😉

 

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

there's always a way. There's Sponsors and interested parties such as the stud farms and millionaires who chip in to keep it going.

They already chip in to the large prize Slot races you guys All hate . 

Races are just run to what money sponsors put up at the time .

I went to Tasmania with a few Queenslanders when Blacks A Fake won the Interdominion . He picked up a million dollars as First prize. sometimes Sponsors mean you can race for better money .  other years not so much.

The WAY it's ALWAYS been. ENTAIN /Ladbrokes have been great for harness racing.

I can't condemn their input like you blokes do. we need them as are a good sponsor.  Do they help the NZ Gallops out as well ?  Chief might know ?

saying theres always a way,ignores reality to whats actually is happening. 

what i  have read,from people like myself,was a criticism of entain pushing hrnz into focusing on the 2 year bonuses, which very obviously benefitted small high profile interest groups ,with the biggest beneficiary being the man in charge of entain at the time.Thats just a fact. Also we were told by hrnz the 2 year old bonuses would lead to increased numbers being bred, but the first year proved that was a  miserable failure.

But as to entain money that went with the government deal,no one has criticised that.

its how that money is being used by hrnz that is the subject of the criticism.

i don't know where you get this idea that stud farms and millionaires are going to put more money into sponsorship.

that seems  unrealistic thinking.

have you not noticed that sponsorship seems to be declining in the sport. Look at the races names and its obvious.

Also,its also so obvious,that if you run more and more races ,then less and less races will have sponsors.Thats just a fact as well.

and these stud farms and millionaires that you refer to,again,have a look at where the money from bonuses and high end stakes are going.They may well spend a lot of money on their horses,but hrnz gives them preferential treatment and they are the ones getting the money that hrnz throws around.

you would know the people who own the horses that come to nz and take away all the stakemoney are owned by the rich.Whether it be bonuses or the high end races,the rich benefit and the average person doesn't.

Thats in a nutshell is why the indutsry has lost all the small timers who collectively formed the strong base that used to exist within the industry.They're gone,as have their mares.

Again just reality.

as to slot races. You would  know hrnz is propping them uip with stakemoney that would be better kept for when hrnz run short on  money.

Cambridge is in a financial hole that hrnz seem intent on bailing them out of,and part of the reason for that hole is the slot races. So you can advocate away as much as you like about slot races,but thats advocating for more bail out money to go to whoever runs them.

you always try to be positive,but wishing doesn't change reality.

Edited 11 hours ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

8 hours ago, the galah said:

Also,its also so obvious,that if you run more and more races ,then less and less races will have sponsors.Thats just a fact as well.

and these stud farms and millionaires that you refer to,again,have a look at where the money from bonuses and high end stakes are going.They may well spend a lot of money on their horses,but hrnz gives them preferential treatment and they are the ones getting the money that hrnz throws around.

Small time sponsors come in to play. Like your local pub or auto repairer and all sorts of things.  Thus you get the people that work in those places a chance to be involved in the sport too. (this happens at all the small races we run around Australia everyday. it's a good thing.

Usually the huge Feed and supply companies (like Garrards and Prydes Easy feeds will sponsor the Big races ) 

and No Matter how much You don't like the Money and Bonuses and that going to the HIGH end , it is IMPERATIVE it DOES. You must Know this ? adjust your  cynacalism and pessimism a tickle as Woodlands and mobs like that there , are the same as Egmont Park (Seymour with Leap To Fame)  and have the Millionaires and Stud farms . and not only provide a lot of the racehorses (your Stonewall bloke actually punts as well I believe to help the industry along ) as well as buying 2 x $300,000 + yearlings this year at record prices at the sales .

OF COURSE you suck up to these blokes as much as Humanly possible Mate. You have to WANT them to get the high end Stakes , of COURSE HRNZ needs to 'Throw the Money at them " Exactly as you described. it's VITAL.

Even here our Redcliffe Yearling Sale Bonus race was run last week , and Won by Dixon. for his '3rd String' Millionaire owner John Mammino with a little known 2 year old.  John and acquaintance of mine,  races about 10 horses with Grant Dixon each year. He picked up 100k last week. (race sponsored by Garrards Horse and Hound who also ran the Sale)  John being a lead player at the Sale each year. 

so The Millionaires PROSPER occasionally Mr Galah , and it's VITAL they do , or interest in the sport will drop more than it is now. They NEED to have races for these BIG boys and they need to win them . ( a la Dean Shannon with 'Merlin' in NZ which has led to the great man racing another 10 horses there with Barry Purdon , a wonderful thing)  Even Aus best in Lue McCarthy is starting out stud farms. Cobbity Farm stands 'King of Swing' and others. 

HRNZ (and Aus harness racing)  is doing a wonderful Job laying on some races for these VITALLY IMPORTANT players. you just can't see it , as want the small bloke to win. they don't win the Big ones much mate. 

well sorry to tell you . It's Seymour, Stockman and Shannon etc that WILL WIN .  even Gus has a multi millionaire owner who comes back to buy and race more horses based on that success. You WANT them to Win .

and the battler ? well he has to go to Redcliffe or Westport or wherever lol. and race for $6000 for 11 months of the year.  or be like Brodie criticising the good horses and the good owners that actually are vital to the sport , and their INVESTMENT deserves the Rich prizemoney. They Deserve it for their support 😁

the hobby horses racing at say Oamaru yesterday or Manawatu (like at Redcliffe here and places like that) can go around for $6000 . Makes no difference if they go for 10 or 12 . they're just the extra's. the bit players. the back ground players with men and women sending their hobby horses around like they have done for decades, and don't EXPECT to WIN much. 

 

 

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

Small time sponsors come in to play. Like your local pub or auto repairer and all sorts of things.  Thus you get the people that work in those places a chance to be involved in the sport too. (this happens at all the small races we run around Australia everyday. it's a good thing.

Usually the huge Feed and supply companies (like Garrards and Prydes Easy feeds will sponsor the Big races ) 

and No Matter how much You don't like the Money and Bonuses and that going to the HIGH end , it is IMPERATIVE it DOES. You must Know this ? adjust your  cynacalism and pessimism a tickle as Woodlands and mobs like that there , are the same as Egmont Park (Seymour with Leap To Fame)  and have the Millionaires and Stud farms . and not only provide a lot of the racehorses (your Stonewall bloke actually punts as well I believe to help the industry along ) as well as buying 2 x $300,000 + yearlings this year at record prices at the sales .

OF COURSE you suck up to these blokes as much as Humanly possible Mate. You have to WANT them to get the high end Stakes , of COURSE HRNZ needs to 'Throw the Money at them " Exactly as you described. it's VITAL.

Even here our Redcliffe Yearling Sale Bonus race was run last week , and Won by Dixon. for his '3rd String' Millionaire owner John Mammino with a little known 2 year old.  John and acquaintance of mine,  races about 10 horses with Grant Dixon each year. He picked up 100k last week. (race sponsored by Garrards Horse and Hound who also ran the Sale)  John being a lead player at the Sale each year. 

so The Millionaires PROSPER occasionally Mr Galah , and it's VITAL they do , or interest in the sport will drop more than it is now. They NEED to have races for these BIG boys and they need to win them . ( a la Dean Shannon with 'Merlin' in NZ which has led to the great man racing another 10 horses there with Barry Purdon , a wonderful thing)  Even Aus best in Lue McCarthy is starting out stud farms. Cobbity Farm stands 'King of Swing' and others. 

HRNZ (and Aus harness racing)  is doing a wonderful Job laying on some races for these VITALLY IMPORTANT players. you just can't see it , as want the small bloke to win. they don't win the Big ones much mate. 

well sorry to tell you . It's Seymour, Stockman and Shannon etc that WILL WIN .  even Gus has a multi millionaire owner who comes back to buy and race more horses based on that success. You WANT them to Win .

and the battler ? well he has to go to Redcliffe or Westport or wherever lol. and race for $6000 for 11 months of the year.  or be like Brodie criticising the good horses and the good owners that actually are vital to the sport , and their INVESTMENT deserves the Rich prizemoney. They Deserve it for their support 😁

the hobby horses racing at say Oamaru yesterday or Manawatu (like at Redcliffe here and places like that) can go around for $6000 . Makes no difference if they go for 10 or 12 . they're just the extra's. the bit players. the back ground players with men and women sending their hobby horses around like they have done for decades, and don't EXPECT to WIN much. 

 

 

I will explain ,in a different way,why i think your thinking is flawed and why those in charge of HRNZ have lost perspective of reality.

i actually believe poor decsiion making has already undermined the sport,beyond repair, the  poor policies going back many years.

The strehgth of harness racing in nz had always been the level of grass root participation far outweighs the level of participation of the big players.

in other words,the numbers that the grass roots people contributed to the sport,whether it be as owners,punters,sponsors,breeders,licence holders,everything used to by far far greater than the overall contribution of the high end players.

all of those grass root people had many friends ,relatives etc who followed their prograss.

But that level of participation has been undermined by many things.

things happening outside the industries control have significantly impacted the grass root level numbers,but the problem is ,the decision makers could often have mitigated the damage through better policies,but they haven't.

And now we have decision makers prioritising on steroids,the people you say deserve more support than the ever diminshing grass roots level people.

where the grass roots level have also failed themselves,is they have been unable to psuh their cause as a collective and therefore the big players voices are the ones always being heard.But hrnz should have recognised that if they were indeed leaders,instead of pandering to the rich and the elite.

Thats whats played out.

its reality.

it hasn't been the  wealthy or the millionaires who are leaving the sport has it.

you can keep saying they will lose those blokes from the sport if they don't throw more millions there way,i don't believe you.

What will lose those millionaires participation is when they see they are in a sport which has lost the public and the grass root  number of particpants that he sport once had.

if you were a multi millionaire,would you rather win a big race for a lower stake,but with a big public following or would you rather win a big race with a big stake and very few watching or seeing you r achievement. you say its the latter,i say its the former.

 

Edited 59 minutes ago by the galah

[Gammalite]

26 minutes ago, the galah said:

therefore the big players voices are the ones always being heard.But hrnz should have recognised that if they were indeed leaders,instead of pandering to the rich and the elite.

Thats whats played out.

its reality.

exactly . that's society in general. It panders to the rich.

Horse racing is dominated by Millionaires like a Lot of other sports.

You know this. 

My thinking is not flawed . It's the reality.

Harness racing is great because it does Put on a PRODUCT that ALL can have a go at if they're good enough.

UNFORTUNATELY with the Depth of Talent in Trainers and Drivers in Australian and New Zealand Harness racing ( the best in the world) the small guy is NOT going to get any of the Big money off these blokes.

The NZ Cup Trifecta of Luke McCarthy , and Grant Dixon , and Barry Purdon have been doing this stuff since the day they were Born almost. They are best on the planet. (same for Pete McMullen winning the trots, the Butts, Dunns , Dalgety'sand Jones . The Small guy will NEVER beat them.

So you support these guys (that are the best in the world. ) By Putting races on for them , and Sires Stakes to support the breeders. Who breed the horses the Owners of these stables buy . (nearly All millionaire owners because that's the way it is and they get a foot in the door with their money. Every ALLstar's owner for example. 

It's so obvious HRNZ MUST support these guys by having rich races for them to put the best in the land in.

We're running a Group race this Saturday night at Albion Park . Only the Best will be in it. (horse , driver, and trainer)

The rest of the everyday folk will just paddles around Redcliffe, Oamaru, Mildura Gore and that with little attention and little prizemoney. always been the way. I used to race Rocklea against Grant Dixon and the Rasmussens every Saturday afternoon. we raced for $500 mate. it's just a hobby bit of fun for the small bloke.

People that get their horses running SUB 1.55. well that takes skill . And they deserve the Money . And they get it.

So my Thinking is not flawed . It's WHAT is ACTUALLY Happening in Aus and NZ. 

you are the One Criticising it and dreaming of the 'Level Playing field for All'. 

Mate, the 2 year old Sires Stakes and Jewels racing indeed gives the 'Battler a Even Chance ' to get some. Say JUMAL for Reid and next tier level driver winning a few is an example.  excellent program. been going years. 

 BUT you hate the 2 year olds getting Big money too, so with your flawed thinking , it's just Problem after problem lol. I think you've lost a grip on why and What actually happens so just blame people doing their Jobs ? ( the HRNZ and Entain) 🤭

I do appreciate you have an excellent grasp on driving tactics and , race outcomes and stewards etc though 😉🏆