Betting figures? What are they?

[Brodie]

Does anyone know what the betting figures are for harness at the moment?

Are any harness meetings actually making money?

Why do they not advise us of the money being put on fixed odds on every meeting, compared to the tote pools?

There is no way on earth they are making money on many meetings with what is going through the tote!!!!

Last  night at Auckland there were tote pools on both win and place for the whole of NZ that was less than what a single household would spend on their mortgage or food bill for a week!!

One race had a bit over $400 in the win pool with a couple of minutes to go!

When the stakes are $17k or more this is a total recipe for disaster, but we are told things are positive??

Anyway must still be plenty of Entain money left for another couple of years and we must be in safe hands, so all is good!

 

Edited 23 hours ago by Brodie

[mikeynz]

Be nice to know all the figures, many of the pools(exotics) are all mostly tote but fixed odds figures ain't about turnover, it's profit, if there is any.

Reality is just don't think harness racing is a popular as it used to be.

I should add the few racing in small fields, good stakes,  are probably doing very well, for now.

Edited 21 hours ago by mikeynz

[Brodie]

It is going to be very interesting to see how the yearling sales go this year?

There is less horses going through the sales than what there used to be in Christchurch so figures may hold up pretty well!

However you would have to wonder whether there are going to be enough buyers prepared to pay the big money for a yearling that wont be racing for a couple of years?

There is no doubt whatsoever that these horses when they race will be racing for stakes that are going to be significantly less than what they are currently racing for!

How much less would only be a guess, but unless things change and they start to manage things properly, I would not be surprised if stakes were half What they are now!

HRNZ need to be speaking to the TAB and get them to be encouraging wagering rather than restricting it badly or things are not going to be flash!

Interesting times indeed!

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

It is going to be very interesting to see how the yearling sales go this year?

There is less horses going through the sales than what there used to be in Christchurch so figures may hold up pretty well!

However you would have to wonder whether there are going to be enough buyers prepared to pay the big money for a yearling that wont be racing for a couple of years?

There is no doubt whatsoever that these horses when they race will be racing for stakes that are going to be significantly less than what they are currently racing for!

How much less would only be a guess, but unless things change and they start to manage things properly, I would not be surprised if stakes were half What they are now!

HRNZ need to be speaking to the TAB and get them to be encouraging wagering rather than restricting it badly or things are not going to be flash!

Interesting times indeed!

don't worry brodie,its not just hrnz and mr steele who's saying everything is on the rise here.

i just watched an interview called campbells comments ,a bloke seemingly well known in australian harness media.

According to campbell's comments, new zealand is on the rise and going enormous.

then just a few moths ago i heard gordon banks saying the exact same thing on a well known american harness podcast.

you know,i listen to people like that and i think to myself,what is wrong with these people.They make out they are  clever and obviously they are in some things,but clearly they are not as smart as they think themselves to be..

Its like these people think that way, because hrnz have upped the all these big stake high end races and their bonuses and then they threw some money to the peasants with the harness 5000 concept.

I mean,even the dumbest fool should realise that doesn't mean harness racing is on the rise and is going enormous.

but no,obviously there are people out there who are just plain dumb as.

maybe its an aussie thing as well.

You know,the dumbest person in the world with  numbers  could have run things and boosted  stakes, with all the money they got from the entain deal.

why that makes anyone think that equates to the industry being on the rise and going enormous,is beyond comprehending..

anyway,If you want an example of what happens when stake money is slashed,then look at the stats i posted about the victotrian harness racing industry,from their annual report in august last year.

every indicator for victorian harness was looking bad.

every single one from number bred, to turnove,r to numbers of industry participants,etc. 

as to the victorian sales,melbourne apg 2024,from the 111 offered,78 sold  for an average$25,731. In 2025from the 60 offered 47 sold for and average of $17202.

the melbourne nutrien 2024. From the 200 offered,126 sold for an average of $32,496,while in 2025,from the 147 offered, 108 sold for an average of $31,894. So the average dropped significantly in 1 sale and just a little in the other,but obviously there was roughly a 25% reduction in numbers  was a factor in masking the level of the decline.i 

its just common sense and logic,that if the stakes do have to be cut in nz in a couple of years,the same trends will play out here.

you mention this years  nz yearling sales.My guess will be things will still play out ok. I

if numbers offered here have been reduced that will artifically mask any decline anyway. Most likely the top end will still sell well and the bottom end struggle.

also,so many people that are still remaining in nz harness racing only think of next year,not the 5 years time when their horses that are being bred and purchased will be racing.

everything that happens in nz harness racing in 2 or 5 years will be self inflicted.

Now whether it be self inflicted small reductions or self inflicted large reuctions,it doesn't change that its self inflicted. People in nz harness racing are going to get the econominc circumstances that they,themselves have participated in creating.

No one shoukld ahve any sympathy for anyone in nz harness racing if tough times do fall on particiapnts in yera sto come.I certainly wouldn't have any.

Now obviously, we all hope its not too bad,but many of us think it will be reductions in everything. 

Personally i still think their are still some factors that will mitigate it turning really bad,but its inevictable it will be reductions.

the scale of any reductions is the unknown factor but it will become evident in the next year or so once the greyhounds are gone and  the first year of geo blocking has played out with the impact of that being better known. ll.l

Then you have the current decison of hrnz to anchor the rest of nz harness to the syrvival of harness rwacing at aleaxandra park and the inpact of that ..

As to turnover figures you mention,transparency seems mostly applied when they want to promote good confidence building news.

We are always hearing media say,turnoverts are up. But as i have said before,any fool should be able to work out,even if income does happen to be up,if you spending at a greater rate then you eat into your cash reserves. So these people who tell us turnovers are mathmatically stupid. And tyhey are right. Many people actually are.But not everyone is.

Edited 16 hours ago by the galah

[Brodie]

Yes saw the Campbell interview with Anthony Butt recently as well, was interesting!

Unfortunately HRNZ are trying to paint a rosey picture that racing is going well due to the decisions that they have made, but they are all on the payroll.

At the end of the day what will be will be and they are the ones being paid to run harness racing in NZ.

Anyone with business sense knows that the harness industry is in the throes of falling on bad times financially and this is mainly due to decisions being made.

What would be good but will not happen is that the current CEO starts telling the harness fraternity what is going to happen in 2 years time to the promises and the stake money level, so people can decide whether there is a future for them?

 

 

 

[Gammalite]

You 2 old boys have really drawn the Curtains and Pulled down the Blinds on your view of NZ harness racing. And trying to Board up the windows as well lol.  No wonder no-one talks to you anymore here.

Do you seriously expect the CEO or HRNZ or anyone to be disappointed in and back your Shocking judgements of every aspect of the sport ?

They Can't Do That. It's their job to put a Racing product on for the participants.  Calling everyone 'Fools' 10 times solves nothing Mr Galah.

Let's have a look at why they say The Sport is never Been better.  Get some Optimism going maties . Pull that Blind up and remove your deafeners !! (I think they're glued in with you 2 though ) 😂😋😉

1/  Fabulous racing all year round. Amazing concepts like the November Slot races, The Cambridge Million Betcha and TAB trot attracting the best horses in the world nearly the past 2 years. HRNZ ONLY have to put in a Small portion of the prizes pool so the BIG-time racing is on the cusp of being 'Self Sufficient ' excellent stuff !! 

2/ The NZ CUP racing for a great purse with the Aussie involvement through the ceiling now . because the racing is doing so well in NZ . The last 2 Dominion trots have been fantastic. ( I guess that makes up for NZ not running the Interdominion anymore )  

3/ The yearlings Prices are amazing . Stonewall bought 2 yearlings a year ago for NZ record Prices . $360,000 each I think it was. The breeders will be smiling at this like real estate agents lol. 

4/ The Golden Gait concept at Auckland is amazing with people like Unhinged Nigel for example winning them with his syndicates and getting good reward for their Input to the industry and participation . Like wise the recent Ashburton 5000 concept saw normal rated horses winning $60,000 races for normal grass roots participants. How good was that. The millionaires have enough races put on for them like the harness millions etc.

5/ BIG time Aussie owners like Boots and Shannon have taken over where Mark Purdon's left off , and are supporting the trainers with a stack of purchases at your yearling sales, 

6/ GUS and Muscle Mountain are trotting at an amazing level, showing NZ bred trotters are near best on the planet. There are ways to expand on that by running More Trotting races. Wait on . Auckland already do !! for Bernie Hackett, Dr Chin, Balle, McGowan and other fantastic trotter trainers in the North . Well done ATC.

7/ The horses are going blistering times . Because the Trainers are the best around. Dunn's , Telfers, Cullins  ,Dalgety and the Masters themselves the 3 brothers/in law = BarryP and MarkP and Tony H STILL training and WINNING after all these 5 decades. The best in the World still Representing your Amazing Sport .   So HOW Lucky are you guys to Have them ?

8/ New Zealand Very Abily represented last night at Melton Victoria on our Biggest night of the year at the Hunter Cup. NOOO . Not by Mick Guiren (who droned on like a man in a asylum lol 😂😋 that no-one could understand) But by Republican Party, Captain's Mistress and Chase A Dream storming into the money showing GOOD the kiwis really are . (and people could bet on them too 👍)

how  is there anything to complain about .  and you Expect the CEO to say things are going Bad. 😂🤣😁  Adapt and pull up your blinds and open the curtains , and enjoy the sunshine boys. try and enjoy the sport. better than tiddly winks the Chief was trying to sell someone lol 😂

Amazing Horses, Amazing Horse people, Amazing races. Heaps more coming up soon too. 

have a good Sunday. ( get the Mrs to open the curtains or something lol ) 😁😉

 

[Brodie]

21 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

You 2 old boys have really drawn the Curtains and Pulled down the Blinds on your view of NZ harness racing. And trying to Board up the windows as well lol.  No wonder no-one talks to you anymore here.

Do you seriously expect the CEO or HRNZ or anyone to be disappointed in and back your Shocking judgements of every aspect of the sport ?

They Can't Do That. It's their job to put a Racing product on for the participants.  Calling everyone 'Fools' 10 times solves nothing Mr Galah.

Let's have a look at why they say The Sport is never Been better.  Get some Optimism going maties . Pull that Blind up and remove your deafeners !! (I think they're glued in with you 2 though ) 😂😋😉

1/  Fabulous racing all year round. Amazing concepts like the November Slot races, The Cambridge Million Betcha and TAB trot attracting the best horses in the world nearly the past 2 years. HRNZ ONLY have to put in a Small portion of the prizes pool so the BIG-time racing is on the cusp of being 'Self Sufficient ' excellent stuff !! 

2/ The NZ CUP racing for a great purse with the Aussie involvement through the ceiling now . because the racing is doing so well in NZ . The last 2 Dominion trots have been fantastic. ( I guess that makes up for NZ not running the Interdominion anymore )  

3/ The yearlings Prices are amazing . Stonewall bought 2 yearlings a year ago for NZ record Prices . $360,000 each I think it was. The breeders will be smiling at this like real estate agents lol. 

4/ The Golden Gait concept at Auckland is amazing with people like Unhinged Nigel for example winning them with his syndicates and getting good reward for their Input to the industry and participation . Like wise the recent Ashburton 5000 concept saw normal rated horses winning $60,000 races for normal grass roots participants. How good was that. The millionaires have enough races put on for them like the harness millions etc.

5/ BIG time Aussie owners like Boots and Shannon have taken over where Mark Purdon's left off , and are supporting the trainers with a stack of purchases at your yearling sales, 

6/ GUS and Muscle Mountain are trotting at an amazing level, showing NZ bred trotters are near best on the planet. There are ways to expand on that by running More Trotting races. Wait on . Auckland already do !! for Bernie Hackett, Dr Chin, Balle, McGowan and other fantastic trotter trainers in the North . Well done ATC.

7/ The horses are going blistering times . Because the Trainers are the best around. Dunn's , Telfers, Cullins  ,Dalgety and the Masters themselves the 3 brothers/in law = BarryP and MarkP and Tony H STILL training and WINNING after all these 5 decades. The best in the World still Representing your Amazing Sport .   So HOW Lucky are you guys to Have them ?

8/ New Zealand Very Abily represented last night at Melton Victoria on our Biggest night of the year at the Hunter Cup. NOOO . Not by Mick Guiren (who droned on like a man in a asylum lol 😂😋 that no-one could understand) But by Republican Party, Captain's Mistress and Chase A Dream storming into the money showing GOOD the kiwis really are . (and people could bet on them too 👍)

how  is there anything to complain about .  and you Expect the CEO to say things are going Bad. 😂🤣😁  Adapt and pull up your blinds and open the curtains , and enjoy the sunshine boys. try and enjoy the sport. better than tiddly winks the Chief was trying to sell someone lol 😂

Amazing Horses, Amazing Horse people, Amazing races. Heaps more coming up soon too. 

have a good Sunday. ( get the Mrs to open the curtains or something lol ) 😁😉

 

Gamma, totally on the back of the cash splash from Entain!!

That money is going go stop and then  what?

They have totally mismanaged things but that is going to come out soon unfortunately.

Burying their heads in the sand will not work, reality will set in soon unless they can come out and explain how they are going to afford to maintain stakes  in the future?

i hope things do continue but delusion if you believe that Entain is interested in NZ harness racing!

 

[the galah]

30 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Yes saw the Campbell interview with Anthony Butt recently as well, was interesting!

Unfortunately HRNZ are trying to paint a rosey picture that racing is going well due to the decisions that they have made, but they are all on the payroll.

At the end of the day what will be will be and they are the ones being paid to run harness racing in NZ.

Anyone with business sense knows that the harness industry is in the throes of falling on bad times financially and this is mainly due to decisions being made.

What would be good but will not happen is that the current CEO starts telling the harness fraternity what is going to happen in 2 years time to the promises and the stake money level, so people can decide whether there is a future for them?

 

 

 

yeah. as you say ,what will be will be ,no matter what you,me or others say.

hrnz have used the entain money to create the impression amongst its stakeholders and investors,that the industry is going much better than of how its actually performing financially and numbers wise..And they have also used it  in misdirecting attention from the declining numbers of the likes of horses being bred,those breeding them,licence holder numbers,field size,etc.

Reinforced by selective,clever  hrnz spin and the complicit media, is a strategy that clearly is fooling many.

i'm sure,the strategy was done with good intentions,but good intentions won't help pay the bills in years to come.

[Brodie]

25 minutes ago, the galah said:

yeah. as you say ,what will be will be ,no matter what you,me or others say.

hrnz have used the entain money to create the impression amongst its stakeholders and investors,that the industry is going much better than of how its actually performing financially and numbers wise..And they have also used it  in misdirecting attention from the declining numbers of the likes of horses being bred,those breeding them,licence holder numbers,field size,etc.

Reinforced by selective,clever  hrnz spin and the complicit media, is a strategy that clearly is fooling many.

i'm sure,the strategy was done with good intentions,but good intentions won't help pay the bills in years to come.

The thing is and it is the same as most failing businesses is that those that are in charge, try to cover things up and dont take ownership for its failure!

For example, Duval, Chance Voight directors under statutory management and they stat3 that everything is rosey and no issues and financially fine lol

The same attitude that HRNZ and TAB both have, so we wait and see!

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Gammalite said:

You 2 old boys have really drawn the Curtains and Pulled down the Blinds on your view of NZ harness racing. And trying to Board up the windows as well lol.  No wonder no-one talks to you anymore here.

 

have a good Sunday. ( get the Mrs to open the curtains or something lol ) 😁😉

 

i lke your positive post gamma. forever the optimist.i like the humour about the blinds.

your probably accurate about people not replying to my  posts.Not to worry.Brodies regularly replies and hes known as always being on the money and he mostly agrees with me.And you still reply.  One day, if i ever make it to australia, i think i will make a point of looking you up. i reckon you are the type of bloke that i could have good chats with.If that ever happens i can't imagine we would talk about what we talk about on here,lots of wonderful australian things to talk about instead.

by the way,the wife opens every curtain  first thing in the morning.When i go for my walks it always surprises me just how many people never do. Most people even seem to keep all their windows closed these days.

 

Edited 41 minutes ago by the galah