Vision for thoroughbred racing

[Freda]

On 26/07/2019 at 3:23 PM, Agent54 said:

Ignore him like the rest of the industry does ATA.

if that is in fact the case, it is an indictment  that ' the industry' cannot/will not take note of carefully collated figures and plain common sense about many crucial matters.

[Reefton]

On 26/07/2019 at 12:20 PM, barryb said:

To be fair Reefton, no bog tracks at Te Rapa in the last 20yrs. Last Saturday it was a heavy 10 and they were winning from everywhere & the grass looked great, I heard no whinging of kickback etc either.

There is a programme to fix the sand issue or at least minimise it later this yr.

Might not have been bog tracks but there have certainly been plenty of uproars about the standard of tracks presented.  I don't think there is another track in the country that attracts critical comment like Te Rapa does(and Ellerslie in the 'bad old days' would have been number two although to be fair Riccarton is not saint where that is concerned).  Coincidentally all three have been 'renovated' regularly which proves my point about not touching them.  It was lucky someone wasn't killed at Ellerslie with that drain nobody knew about (remarkably that ARC mob and their supporters know all about what is wrong with the rest of NZ racing but have no idea about their own dung hill - Ken Rutherford is another prone to opening his mouth about what should happen elsewhere in the game without looking in his own backyard).    

[Reefton]

On 26/07/2019 at 1:13 PM, All The Aces said:

Despite the real factual evidence as shown above with them to be more likely run on good tracks. You seem to have a imagined ingrained mentality re all these bog tracks in the North at this time of the year.

FYI.  There were 20 North Island meetings run in November last year the worst track was a Slow 7 at Rotorua. The remaining 19 meetings were run on tracks from a Good 2 to a Dead 6.

In October there were also 20 North Island meetings, the worst track were two Slow 8 tracks at Waipa and Matamata. Again the remaining 18 meetings were run on tracks from Good 2s to a Dead 6.

Not one track in the North Island ran a meeting with a heavy bog track as you ASSUME is the case. Your argument based on your opinion on this issue just doesn't stand up.

Just to rub a little more salt into your wounds there were 7 meetings run in the South Island last November. Four were run on Slow 7 or worse. Wingatui Slow 7, Ascot Park Slow 9  Riccarton (2000 Guineas day)  Slow 9  & Gore  Heavy 11.  In October from 7 SI meetings Gore ran on a Heavy11 and Winton on a Slow 9.

So from 40 North Island meetings only three were run on tracks worse than dead. One Slow 7 and two Slow 8s.

Yet from fourteen South Islands meetings six were run on Slow 7 or worse.  One Slow 7, three slow 9s and two Heavy 11s.

Your North Island bog track spiel is nothing more than house of cards opinion. 

 

 

   

 

On 26/07/2019 at 3:23 PM, Agent54 said:

Ignore him like the rest of the industry does ATA.

Actually you two would be prime candidates for the Vacancy on the NZTR Board

(1) No common sense

(2) You want everything for the upper North Island

(3) You want to tear apart one of the few things that actually works in NZ racing(and God knows there aren't many) and relocate from a place where almost twenty thousand turn up for a look to somewhere where you will be lucky to get a couple of hundred(based on the view of the grandstand last Herbie Dyke day - room for three hundred people populated by about three) 

You two are wasted on a social media site - get your CV's in to Bernard pronto!

 

[All The Aces]

Unfortunately too busy for that Reefton but the drift North continues. Yet another trainer from the CD moved up in Kylie Little last week to Cambridge.

It's not about what I am wanting Reefie but what the trainers up North are wanting. That's where the discussions are at present. You had better get some SI horses in these races this year otherwise those voices could be raised. 

[Reefton]

Just now, All The Aces said:

Unfortunately too busy for that Reefton but the drift North continues. Yet another trainer from the CD moved up in Kylie Little last week to Cambridge.

It's not about what I am wanting Reefie but what the trainers up North are wanting. That's where the discussions are at present. You had better get some SI horses in these races this year otherwise those voices could be raised. 

Those the same North Island trainers that wanted all the courses closed?  They want to stick to something they might just know something about and forget about telling the people providing them the opportunities what they should be doing.

You only need to look at the impotent position of their own association to know how well organised they are.

And since you are a bit thick I will reiterate - the numbers imbalance has been the same for 45 years since the races were first run down here. And again I will reiterate - my experience of North Island Trainers is they don't care about the expense - just load it on the owners.

Two of the more prominent up that way(Sharrock and Pike) were trumpeting how they were off to Aussie a couple of years ago.  Not too much progress seems to have been made? 

[The Centaur]

13 hours ago, Freda said:

if that is in fact the case, it is an indictment  that ' the industry' cannot/will not take note of carefully collated figures and plain common sense about many crucial matters.

Agreed. Few seem capable of looking at the big picture. WE hear talk about closing tracks but little is presented about other activities some commercial others of community benefit. Actually some clubs might welcome  respite from racing as Avondale did for a few years.

More data, more informed discussion, less egotism and fewer jokes (e.g. LJM thinking of getting on the board) is needed.

 

[Thomass]

Some lovely dreams in this thread...

..now all yous fellas need to do is...

...get elected by your pears...then go forth and multiply your dreams...best

[All The Aces]

I bet you are well over 50 Reefie. Scared of change and one who wants to keep everything exactly as it is now. There's thickness for you. 

Let's look at the first and last day of Cup week when both Guineas races are run. The total on and off-course figures for those two days this season totaled $3,531,901 with a total of 18 races run. Let's face it the majority of race goers on Cup Day don't give a toss about the 1000 Guineas it's all about the Cup.  

Let's compare that with Karaka Millions evening when Ellerslie hold a twilight meeting of six races which had turnover of $2,279,829.

Now imagine a late afternoon 6 race card at Ellerslie in November featuring both Guineas races on the programme with four really good supporting races. You could probably guarantee both Guineas fields will attract bigger numbers than at present creating additional turnover. Two great evenings of racing, creating plenty of interest and plenty of turnover.  

The net result I think would lead to greater turnover all round benefitting NZ racing if this was to occur.   

 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by All The Aces

[curious]

48 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

I bet you are well over 50 Reefie. Scared of change and one who wants to keep everything exactly as it is now. There's thickness for you. 

Let's look at the first and last day of Cup week when both Guineas races are run. The total on and off-course figures for those two days this season totaled $3,531,901 with a total of 18 races run. Let's face it the majority of race goers on Cup Day don't give a toss about the 1000 Guineas it's all about the Cup.  

Let's compare that with Karaka Millions evening when Ellerslie hold a twilight meeting of six races which had turnover of $2,279,829.

Now imagine a late afternoon 6 race card at Ellerslie in November featuring both Guineas races on the programme with four really good supporting races. You could probably guarantee both Guineas fields will attract bigger numbers than at present creating additional turnover. Two great evenings of racing, creating plenty of interest and plenty of turnover.  

The net result I think would lead to greater turnover all round benefitting NZ racing if this was to occur.   

 

 

 

Check your maths ATA. 2.279m turnover @ say .15 gross revenue is about $340,000. Say half that net = 170,00. What did they give away in stakes? Unsustainable business I'd say.

[All The Aces]

 

NZTR didn't stump up the $2 million for the 2yo & 3yo races though Curious. 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, All The Aces said:

 

NZTR didn't stump up the $2 million for the 2yo & 3yo races though Curious. 

no the owners stumped up most of it and NZTR the rest

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, All The Aces said:

I bet you are well over 50 Reefie. Scared of change and one who wants to keep everything exactly as it is now. There's thickness for you. 

Let's look at the first and last day of Cup week when both Guineas races are run. The total on and off-course figures for those two days this season totaled $3,531,901 with a total of 18 races run. Let's face it the majority of race goers on Cup Day don't give a toss about the 1000 Guineas it's all about the Cup.  

Let's compare that with Karaka Millions evening when Ellerslie hold a twilight meeting of six races which had turnover of $2,279,829.

Now imagine a late afternoon 6 race card at Ellerslie in November featuring both Guineas races on the programme with four really good supporting races. You could probably guarantee both Guineas fields will attract bigger numbers than at present creating additional turnover. Two great evenings of racing, creating plenty of interest and plenty of turnover.  

The net result I think would lead to greater turnover all round benefitting NZ racing if this was to occur.   

 

 

 

Just remind me the stakes paid on each of those two days and the percentage of turnover achieved those stakes represent(not that NZ Cup day is anything to skite about in terms of return on investment by the NZ industry)  

Reality is as Laurie Sutherland has pointed out when it comes to efficient use of industry resources those big clubs toil well in the rear(and always have done).  Your average picnic Club props them up well and truly.

 

[Dark Beau]

4 hours ago, All The Aces said:

 

NZTR didn't stump up the $2 million for the 2yo & 3yo races though Curious. 

No, but they did stump up half a million.

[Bloke]

21 hours ago, All The Aces said:

Unfortunately too busy for that Reefton but the drift North continues. Yet another trainer from the CD moved up in Kylie Little last week to Cambridge.

It's not about what I am wanting Reefie but what the trainers up North are wanting. That's where the discussions are at present. You had better get some SI horses in these races this year otherwise those voices could be raised. 

The CD trainers that have moved up north in recent years have not performed anywhere  as well as they did in the CD. Andrew Campbell was amazingly succcessful out of Masterton although he has had problems with a virus affecting his stable a couple of years ago just after moving to Cambridge. Karen Zimmerman who is a very hard worker  has never really got to first base since movig north. I see that she has teamed uo with Nigel Tiley so maybe her fortunes will change.

[Reefton]

14 minutes ago, Bloke said:

The CD trainers that have moved up north in recent years have not performed anywhere  as well as they did in the CD. Andrew Campbell was amazingly succcessful out of Masterton although he has had problems with a virus affecting his stable a couple of years ago just after moving to Cambridge. Karen Zimmerman who is a very hard worker  has never really got to first base since movig north. I see that she has teamed uo with Nigel Tiley so maybe her fortunes will change.

Training is a bloody hard game wherever you are from what I can see Bloke  (and I suspect it is just as tough in Aussie).  Especially trying to get the initial breakthrough in a new location.