mardigras Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 i don't think I have ever said racing isn't in decline in Australia. I have only been discussing the use of industry money towards stakes in NZ, which is pointless.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 10 hours ago, curious said: Maybe, but I don't think there is any provision in the current Act that gives anyone the power to do that. Therein lays the problem Curious, the act needs changing, John M will no doubt moot that, however my thoughts are that won't happen and nothing will come of this........oh Christ how I hope I'm wrong, for everyones sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 30 minutes ago, barryb said: How are thing in Australia? Racing is on a steep decline there also, just has further to fall. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/hits-just-keep-on-coming-for-a-racing-industry-in-decline-20150717-gif2hw.html http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/vic-racing/blinkers-off-spring-carnival-crowds-on-the-decline-in-worrying-trend/news-story/e762cb9e7f10a1cee565a8e60209a0d1 http://www.thoroughbredvillage.com.au/?p=2262 https://horsebetting.com.au/is-the-racing-industry-self-sustainable-in-australia/44464/ https://www.ibisworld.com.au/industry-trends/market-research-reports/arts-recreation-services/horse-dog-racing.html If you cant be bothered reading any of the others, read the last one to get some perspective. Absolutely, we went to Beaudesert for their Anzac Day meeting, huge crowd, plenty of bookies, great atmosphere, Ipswich midweek was like a morgue, or a NZ race meeting, same same........the tiny fields in NSW are a real worry, Waller may have something to do with that, although you naysayers may disagree......some really good trainers have left SYD for Brisbane and other climes.....so taking Waller and the saturation from that stable out of the equation, there is a problem here also. The crowds at the races Sat in SYD are growing, and have a real young vibe going......especially in spring/summer......the difference between the two countries, something will be done here to address the problem, in NZ nada, big fat zilch, unless John M is taken seriously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryb Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 26 minutes ago, mardigras said: i don't think I have ever said racing isn't in decline in Australia. I have only been discussing the use of industry money towards stakes in NZ, which is pointless.. So in Aus having the flash tracks and facilities has halted the decline? The reports suggest otherwise. There are no simple solutions, its multi dimenional the issues & sure as hell includes stakes along with other things mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, barryb said: So in Aus having the flash tracks and facilities has halted the decline? The reports suggest otherwise. There are no simple solutions, its multi dimenional the issues & sure as hell includes stakes along with other things mentioned. Of course it has. As for some of those reports, some refer to decline when it has been the same for decades. Sydney racing has been crap for longer than I can remember. If you think Australian racing is in decline to anywhere near the levels of NZ, then your thinking is blinkered. It is likely that NZ racing doesn't actually earn any net revenue through NZRB itself. Do you think that is the case with Australian racing? We have an industry that likely doesn't even generate $1 of net revenue through punters being interested in it. It's on life support and one day the government might turn the switch off. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 3 hours ago, Rowley Mile said: Therein lays the problem Curious, the act needs changing, John M will no doubt moot that, however my thoughts are that won't happen and nothing will come of this........oh Christ how I hope I'm wrong, for everyones sake. So do I... but to concur with Curious, to change the existing Act involves Parliamentary process. Whatever J.M recommends, unless W.P can get cross-party support, nothing can develop. I can't see the Greens supporting anything to do with racing for starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 https://waikatostud.com/messara-report-will-mean-short-term-pain-for-long-term-gain/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 $90 mil operating costs, that would be revolutionary It has been debated ad infinitum on RC over the years, about the tail wagging the dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, hesi said: $90 mil operating costs, that would be revolutionary It has been debated ad infinitum on RC over the years, about the tail wagging the dog It would be a short term adjustment. And two points from the article. It refers to GDP contribution currently of $1.6 billion. That is a made up number and I would suggest massively overstated. Secondly, operational cost reduction does nothing to change gross revenue/net revenue earned from NZ racing. If you can't change that, then eventually there will still not be sufficient money to retain the industry (even if operating costs went down to zero). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 4 hours ago, mardigras said: It would be a short term adjustment. And two points from the article. It refers to GDP contribution currently of $1.6 billion. That is a made up number and I would suggest massively overstated. Yes, that's not even what the NZRB's own 2018 size and scope report says. GDP is not mentioned in relation to that dreamed up number, and much of that is from nothing to do with racing: In 2016/17, the New Zealand Racing industry generated total direct spending of $1,205.8 million. This expenditure was responsible for creating a direct value-added impact (in terms of wages, salaries and profits) of $611.0 million. However, the flow-on effects linked to this expenditure increase the size of the industry’s value-added contribution to over $1.6 billion. Direct expenditure is defined as expenditure associated with producing foals and pups (breeding & rearing), preparing racing horses and greyhounds (training), racing customer expenditure and expenditure by NZRB, the three codes of racing and racing clubs on operating the industry. Direct expenditure is counted at the point at which it leaves the racing industry and reaches the broader economy. 2 Value-added contribution is defined as the value of sales less the value of inputs used in production, i.e. it is equal to the income (wages, salaries and profits) generated in production 3 Household Income is defined as being wages and salaries (before tax) earned from employment generated by the racing industry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 de Lore also obviously needs to re-take his Year 3 maths class on percentages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 9 hours ago, mardigras said: It would be a short term adjustment. And two points from the article. It refers to GDP contribution currently of $1.6 billion. That is a made up number and I would suggest massively overstated. Secondly, operational cost reduction does nothing to change gross revenue/net revenue earned from NZ racing. If you can't change that, then eventually there will still not be sufficient money to retain the industry (even if operating costs went down to zero). It appears you have all of the answers And what happened when NZRB invited you to help solve the puzzle?? You couldn't be pissed going to a meeting...niller Just let Messara have his turn...he'll know by now just how much the Racing Industry contributes and we'll go from there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 Just now, Thomass said: It appears you have all of the answers And what happened when NZRB invited you to help solve the puzzle?? You couldn't be pissed going to a meeting...niller Just let Messara have his turn...he'll know by now just how much the Racing Industry contributes and we'll go from there... I don't have the answers. How much the Racing industry contributes? To GDP do you mean? Nothing worth worrying about. That's how much. Messara will know that too so he can certainly go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) If you crunch a few figures in the NZRB Annual Reports from 2004 to 2017, and compare total costs, as a ratio of NBR(net betting revenue), then 2004 NBR 177.7 mil Costs 108 mil Ration 60.8% This figure stays reasonably constant through till 2010(63.6%, 64.7, 56.3, 60.6, 63.1, 61.2), then in 2011 it starts to climb 2011 64.3% 2012 68.6 2013 65.9 2014 68.6 2015 71.9 2016 73.0 2017 73.8 I've used NBR as a measure, as I think it better reflects the performance of the TAB, as opposed to total turnover And if you extrapolate out the 2018 6 month report, then NBR is tracking towards 302.1 mil, with costs at 218.2 mil, a ratio of 72.2% Edited June 8, 2018 by hesi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Racing: Major report on home turn 18 Jul, 2018 5:00am 4 minutes to read Australian racing supremo John Messara says he is confident of meeting the deadline. Photo / Getty Images NZ Herald By: Michael Guerin The most important report in New Zealand racing's recent history is on target to be delivered to Minister for Racing Winston Peters by the end of the month. And the man charged with making recommendations which could be crucial to the future of the racing industry says he has concentrated mainly on the thoroughbred industry. Australian racing supremo John Messara was asked by Peters to write a strategic report to provide advice to the Government on how to fix racing's woes. Peters said the Messara review would assist the government in determining if the Racing Act and the proposed Racing Amendment Bill, elements of which should provide New Zealand racing with millions of dollars of extra overseas turnover income, are fit for purpose. Messara says his report is just weeks away and should be in Peters' hands by the target date of the end of the racing season, July 31. "I am confident of meeting that deadline and while we haven't finished compiling the report yet it will be around 50-60 pages, maybe more," Messara told the Herald. The NSW-based racing administrator estimates he has spent between two and three weeks on the ground in New Zealand since being asked to look into the industry here and has met with the heads of all three codes and New Zealand Racing Board boss John Allen. "I have been over there three times and met with a lot of people while we have also had submissions from a wide range of people in the industry." But while the report could have a huge impact on the way New Zealand's racing industry is run for decades to come, Messara says he has concentrated more on the thoroughbred code than harness racing or greyhounds because that is what he was asked to do. "But I am not going to get into the specifics of the report or the discussions I have had," says Messara "I will be happy to talk about those after it has been released but I will deliver it to the Minister and it will be up to him to release it." Messara being asked to concentrate on fixes for the thoroughbred industry is no surprise on two fronts. Firstly, it is the one of the three racing codes in New Zealand that has fallen the furthest behind its Australian equivalent in terms of stake money and infrastructure, particularly New South Wales racing, which Messara was at the head of for part of a booming financial resurgence over the last decade. And secondly it was serious players in the thoroughbred industry, like Sir Patrick Hogan, who were among the most vocal Peters supporters before last year's election, with some inside the racing industry reportedly voting for New Zealand First for that reason alone. Messara says while thoroughbred racing will be at the centre of his report the harness and greyhound codes should not see that as a negative. "I think a stronger thoroughbred industry would be good for New Zealand racing of all codes," he said. Messara's suggested strategies around how to increase stakes, pay for much-needed track maintenance, potential venue closures and even the building of New Zealand's first all-weather track, if as expected they are covered by the review, will be eagerly anticipated. But perhaps the most important question being asked by those at the head of all three racing codes is what will the report suggest about the future role of the New Zealand Racing Board. There is a strong push, particularly from some of the thoroughbred code's leaders, for NZRB's core duties to be outsourced, with its betting operations an obvious target, and with overseas suitors keen to tender for that role. It would be surprising if Messara's report didn't cover that outsourcing or licensing of an overseas operator to run betting on New Zealand racing but that could require changes to the Racing Act which could be hard to get passed. Reducing the number of racing venues in New Zealand also looks certain to be recommended but again that will be met with considerable resistance in some regions. So while the report is near completion, the debates must just be getting ready to intensify. Crunch time • Australian expert John Messara is set to deliver his strategic review of New Zealand racing at the end of the month. • He says it concentrates primarily on the thoroughbred code because that is what he was asked to do. • The most anticipated part of the report will be Messara's recommendations around the role of the New Zealand Racing Board. • The report, which will be at least 50 pages, will be delivered to Minister for Racing, Winston Peters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Something needs to be done with NZRB no doubt , but racings record in this country having Foreign Personnel in charge hasn't been good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 If Messara asks for Government support that will be a big fat NO! This government knows Winston is stuffed and if an election were to be held tomorrow he would be out on his ear @ 3% approval. In the last nine months the West Coast has experienced a loss of confidence like never before (not unlike NZ Racing but over a much shorter period). It is all driven by the Greens and Jacinda's(read Helen Clark who is clearly pulling the strings here again) intense hate of mining. Despite it being pretty clear Shane Jones and co would be on our side they are totally powerless to stop Eugenie Sage and her hencemen unless they are prepared to force a snap election by voting for the other side. Racing will be in no different a situation(in fact there is probably a lot more sympathy for the Coast out there than there is for NZ Racing) National will do nothing because (in the case of the Coast) they are looking for support from the green faction to get them across the line(and anyway the Coast generally - and infuriatingly - votes red regardless). In the case of racing there are no racing votes for the Nats - well none that would swing on racing alone - and then they are on the austerity push as well so they are hardly going to become Santa Claus to the NZ racing Industry. No I hope Messara's message is not one of Government support being required cos if it is we shafted(just like the Coast if this carries on - at least that will be four tracks closed I guess). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I'm still puzzled at how the track closures will help? There are many tracks out there that cost the industry nothing to operate , in fact they are the ones that are probably doing the best . Closing tracks will reduce the available product, kill the community support and interest , reduce the number of options available for racing and programming etc etc. So how does the closure of tracks assist the industry at all? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Huey said: I'm still puzzled at how the track closures will help? There are many tracks out there that cost the industry nothing to operate , in fact they are the ones that are probably doing the best . Closing tracks will reduce the available product, kill the community support and interest , reduce the number of options available for racing and programming etc etc. So how does the closure of tracks assist the industry at all? I agree but if they close some tracks then it will appear they are taking constructive steps to do something about the industry. All the enthusiasm in the world on the part of (say) the Reefton committee is not worth a knob of billy goat s#*t in the global scheme of things racing wise. If the track closed the day would go elsewhere or disappear and they would punt on the second leg from outer Mongolia or somewhere. Besides which the Trainers and Jockeys would probably be delighted to see the back of the place. I have always said the NZRB wants to get rid of ALL NZ racing so they can run their empire and not have to answer(even indirectly) to the NZ stakeholders. That culture has to change and Messara will hopefully kick that away. In my view the best thing he could do is bring back accountability on the part of the Boards to the grassroots whether it be jockeys trainers owners clubs or whoever. Not holding my breath for that to happen though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Given that JM was an administrator for Country racing NSW for a time, I don't see him recommending closing tracks willy-nilly just for the hell of it. If he thinks it necessary on a case-by-case basis, that's different IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Reefton said: If Messara asks for Government support that will be a big fat NO! This government knows Winston is stuffed and if an election were to be held tomorrow he would be out on his ear @ 3% approval. In the last nine months the West Coast has experienced a loss of confidence like never before (not unlike NZ Racing but over a much shorter period). It is all driven by the Greens and Jacinda's(read Helen Clark who is clearly pulling the strings here again) intense hate of mining. Despite it being pretty clear Shane Jones and co would be on our side they are totally powerless to stop Eugenie Sage and her hencemen unless they are prepared to force a snap election by voting for the other side. Racing will be in no different a situation(in fact there is probably a lot more sympathy for the Coast out there than there is for NZ Racing) National will do nothing because (in the case of the Coast) they are looking for support from the green faction to get them across the line(and anyway the Coast generally - and infuriatingly - votes red regardless). In the case of racing there are no racing votes for the Nats - well none that would swing on racing alone - and then they are on the austerity push as well so they are hardly going to become Santa Claus to the NZ racing Industry. No I hope Messara's message is not one of Government support being required cos if it is we shafted(just like the Coast if this carries on - at least that will be four tracks closed I guess). You would expect Messara is smart enough to know that asking for Government money is not on and therefore you would expect him to come up with a sustainable plan for growth that is funded within the constraints of current cash generation Net betting revenue is on track for 302 million this season, so plenty of money in the system Unfortunately it is going to cost 218 million to get that 302 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, hesi said: You would expect Messara is smart enough to know that asking for Government money is not on and therefore you would expect him to come up with a sustainable plan for growth that is funded within the constraints of current cash generation Net betting revenue is on track for 302 million this season, so plenty of money in the system Unfortunately it is going to cost 218 million to get that 302 Well yes but he got money out of the NSW Government didn't he so might think he or we can do the same out of the NZ Government. He is pretty limited in his options form where I sit and that is one of the easier suggestions. Hacking away at the costs to run the NZRB is all very well but public servants tend to cling like the proverbial to a blanket when radical cost cutting is suggested. If past experience is a guide they will get rid of the capable ones and retain the idiots then contract the good ones again at about 3 times the pay rate to sort it out. Farming out the admin of the betting platform is a way but the NZRB needs to be radically restructured and that will meet some resistance. Anyway whatever he suggests the big day is at hand and I can't wait! There will be some nervous people in Parnell or wherever it is I would say. Edited July 18, 2018 by Reefton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 How good is it with Peter's in charge right now? While Cindy's got the population besides themselves waiting for her return... ...Winnie's doing an outstanding job..and Messiah's report will rubber stamp his knighthood... ...for services to the Racing Industry...oar sum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 6 hours ago, Reefton said: I agree but if they close some tracks then it will appear they are taking constructive steps to do something about the industry. All the enthusiasm in the world on the part of (say) the Reefton committee is not worth a knob of billy goat s#*t in the global scheme of things racing wise. If the track closed the day would go elsewhere or disappear and they would punt on the second leg from outer Mongolia or somewhere. Besides which the Trainers and Jockeys would probably be delighted to see the back of the place. I have always said the NZRB wants to get rid of ALL NZ racing so they can run their empire and not have to answer(even indirectly) to the NZ stakeholders. That culture has to change and Messara will hopefully kick that away. In my view the best thing he could do is bring back accountability on the part of the Boards to the grassroots whether it be jockeys trainers owners clubs or whoever. Not holding my breath for that to happen though. But how can someone or something close a track if they don't own it, it isn't costing them anything to operate and its self sustainable? Simple answer would be they couldn't and shouldn't as that would have absolutely no benefit on the industry whatsoever. This is a scenario played out across the country at a number of tracks, many of them under utilised to the benefit of other tracks. He'd be a breath of fresh air if he stood up and really made some of these larger venues more accountable for what they are achieving and what they have done in the past. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Tell you what though Huey, he will have had a close look at the NZTR Annual Reports, to see, for each club, what the data was for Oncourse turnover Total turnover Export turnover From that he can probably work out approx how much NZRB is getting from the wagering on each clubs activity Then relate that to the total stakes paid by each club, and the total funding paid to each club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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