mardigras Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 minute ago, hesi said: Tell you what though Huey, he will have had a close look at the NZTR Annual Reports, to see, for each club, what the data was for Oncourse turnover Total turnover Export turnover From that he can probably work out approx how much NZRB is getting from the wagering on each clubs activity Then relate that to the total stakes paid by each club, and the total funding paid to each club If he recommends what tracks to close based on that, then bye bye Ellerslie etc. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, mardigras said: If he recommends what tracks to close based on that, then bye bye Ellerslie etc. Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wally Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 what amazes me nz brings in someone controversial to tell everyone the obvious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Messara's report can carry no weight unless it actually changes the legislation which currently empowers the NZRB and the codes to run the industry. It's those bodies that need to come up with strategies and reports if any change is to happen in the short term, other than the current one of expending all reserves to sustain stakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, curious said: Messara's report can carry no weight unless it actually changes the legislation which currently empowers the NZRB and the codes to run the industry. It's those bodies that need to come up with strategies and reports if any change is to happen in the short term, other than the current one of expending all reserves to sustain stakes. Of course the Report will give Peter's the mechanical blueprint needed to change legislation... ...pretty simple I would have thought... ...and thank god the focus is on Thoroughbreds... ....but it was always going to be As Messara said "wtf is going on when other codes can dictate the destiny of the superior Thoroughbred code" ...virtually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Huey said: But how can someone or something close a track if they don't own it, it isn't costing them anything to operate and its self sustainable? Simple answer would be they couldn't and shouldn't as that would have absolutely no benefit on the industry whatsoever. This is a scenario played out across the country at a number of tracks, many of them under utilised to the benefit of other tracks. He'd be a breath of fresh air if he stood up and really made some of these larger venues more accountable for what they are achieving and what they have done in the past. I think you might be misunderstanding my thoughts Huey. I am not saying I want tracks shut down just saying that Messara and co could use it as a lever to try to get relief or assistance from the Government 'Look Minister we have taken strong steps to get our house in order how about a handout?' I think it would be a stupid idea but hey if it loosens the purse strings of government or somehow gets a better result for the stakeholders then I would be prepared to sacrifice 'my' course(bearing in mind fighting any such a decree is not my decision alone) so long as there was consistency. I don't know that there is too much gratitude for the effort that goes in anyway and then there is the comments on the other side about committee people not knowing what they are doing so if it ain't appreciated why would I bother? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, hesi said: Tell you what though Huey, he will have had a close look at the NZTR Annual Reports, to see, for each club, what the data was for Oncourse turnover Total turnover Export turnover From that he can probably work out approx how much NZRB is getting from the wagering on each clubs activity Then relate that to the total stakes paid by each club, and the total funding paid to each club I'd be surprised if that is the case. Don't think that is his mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 8 hours ago, Reefton said: I think you might be misunderstanding my thoughts Huey. I am not saying I want tracks shut down just saying that Messara and co could use it as a lever to try to get relief or assistance from the Government 'Look Minister we have taken strong steps to get our house in order how about a handout?' I think it would be a stupid idea but hey if it loosens the purse strings of government or somehow gets a better result for the stakeholders then I would be prepared to sacrifice 'my' course(bearing in mind fighting any such a decree is not my decision alone) so long as there was consistency. I don't know that there is too much gratitude for the effort that goes in anyway and then there is the comments on the other side about committee people not knowing what they are doing so if it ain't appreciated why would I bother? I would be surprised if a smart operator like JM is not aware of the differing set-up between the two jurisdictions. He would be well aware of the privileged position NZ racing has squandered - I am sure he will be looking to advise strategies that can [ hopefully ] make the industry self-sustaining without begging from the NZ taxpayer. The biggest problem will be enacting legislation to facilitate this. I'm not holding my breath given that most everyone either hates or mistrusts the acting PM...but if he can't, along with his other portfolio as Minister for Racing, achieve this, we've got no show. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diceman's Been Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 When I spoke with him earlier this week, he described it as: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, curious said: I'd be surprised if that is the case. Don't think that is his mission. He can use the totals though to work out how much he has to cut RB costs, to be able to provide the substantial ongoing cash injection for stakes and infrastructure, that is needed to stimulate the racing scene. Bearing in mind, that he is not going to get that cash from the Govt, so that is the only place the money can come from...............deconstructing the huge empire that has been built up. Unless of course Winston has ideas about using the billion dollar regional fund to help racing, but I doubt this would ever happen. I hope also Messara puts in place the need for a substantial Marketing budget to promote Racing, after all, this lack of competing for the new generations leisure dollar is the main reason Racing has got into this ever decreasing death spiral Edited July 18, 2018 by hesi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 27 minutes ago, hesi said: He can use the totals though to work out how much he has to cut RB costs, to be able to provide the substantial ongoing cash injection for stakes and infrastructure, that is needed to stimulate the racing scene. Bearing in mind, that he is not going to get that cash from the Govt, so that is the only place the money can come from...............deconstructing the huge empire that has been built up. Unless of course Winston has ideas about using the billion dollar regional fund to help racing, but I doubt this would ever happen. I hope also Messara puts in place the need for a substantial Marketing budget to promote Racing, after all, this lack of competing for the new generations leisure dollar is the main reason Racing has got into this ever decreasing death spiral Agree I can't see any other place that the funds can come from apart from a restructure of the NZRB, anything else including track closures is either a legal/moral minefield or simply wouldn't assist in the long term. My concern is that the focus will be on the wrong parts of the report i.e. track closures to take the focus away from the real issues that being NZRB and how NZTR is operated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 As you have said, I fail to see how closing any tracks, as long as they are not an unproductive drain on resource, can have any impact whatsoever on improving the situation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Lets see what his report brings eh? The closing tracks suggestion, like the restructuring of the NZRB and the asking for government support is all educated guessing at this stage. Its not far away now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, Reefton said: Lets see what his report brings eh? The closing tracks suggestion, like the restructuring of the NZRB and the asking for government support is all educated guessing at this stage. Its not far away now Having said that a valid reason to close courses might be the transport cost of all the TAB gear and crew to different places all the time. If they have to cost cut that could be an immediate focus. Again I am not saying I believe in this or that I support it just that this is how they may justify it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 hours ago, Reefton said: Having said that a valid reason to close courses might be the transport cost of all the TAB gear and crew to different places all the time. If they have to cost cut that could be an immediate focus. Again I am not saying I believe in this or that I support it just that this is how they may justify it That's getting a bit desperate though isn't it? and if that's the case they surely wouldn't race at Ruakaka. Most of the tracks are set up on a fairly good network from stop to stop , not to mention as I'm sure you're aware that does not take into account what revenue or peripheral contribution each track makes to the industry, the above mentioned track being a case in point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, Huey said: That's getting a bit desperate though isn't it? and if that's the case they surely wouldn't race at Ruakaka. Most of the tracks are set up on a fairly good network from stop to stop , not to mention as I'm sure you're aware that does not take into account what revenue or peripheral contribution each track makes to the industry, the above mentioned track being a case in point. Ruakaka is probably strategically significant given the shortage of decent winter tracks so suspect it is safe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, Reefton said: Ruakaka is probably strategically significant given the shortage of decent winter tracks so suspect it is safe That's what I'm saying , its making a contribution to racing in NZ, that contribution may not be able to be measured in just $'s and cents Reefton and thats probably the case with a lot of other venues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gospel of Judas Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just get this feeling, that great one from Aussie is going to be a let down. Waste of a good report! , hope I am wrong .but got low expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Gospel of Judas said: Just get this feeling, that great one from Aussie is going to be a let down. Waste of a good report! , hope I am wrong .but got low expectations. Well at the moment he is as much of a hope as the industry has - in particular the galloping code - so we can be excused for looking forward to it surely? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisoned Dwarf Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 18/07/2018 at 2:23 PM, Reefton said: Lets see what his report brings eh? The closing tracks suggestion, like the restructuring of the NZRB and the asking for government support is all educated guessing at this stage. Its not far away now They wait with unabated breath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Reefton said: Well at the moment he is as much of a hope as the industry has - in particular the galloping code - so we can be excused for looking forward to it surely? I fail to see what you hope that the report will do. The code body and its member clubs essentially run the game and I don't see how any report or recommendations will change the fact that they've done nothing except waste what money they've had for at least the last decade or so or make them do anything different in the future? Seems like pretty much another waste of time to me and I can't really see any use of the regional development funds being anything but political suicide and if it's only going to new track builds that are probably unsustainable, no help at all. Don't have any hope myself that the Messara report will make an iota of difference to the state of the industry or its future. Will probably just finally kill the virtually useless Racing Amendment Act which is already dead in the water. Edited July 23, 2018 by curious 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diceman's Been Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 What a guy you are Mr C. You got me big time with your positividdy. Here I was feeling down in the dumps, and you've lifted me with those truly uplifting inspirational words. I'm so positividdy positive after reading that, I gunna give it annuver go. You da man C .you da man. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, curious said: I fail to see what you hope that the report will do. The code body and its member clubs essentially run the game and I don't see how any report or recommendations will change the fact that they've done nothing except waste what money they've had for at least the last decade or so or make them do anything different in the future? Seems like pretty much another waste of time to me and I can't really see any use of the regional development funds being anything but political suicide and if it's only going to new track builds that are probably unsustainable, no help at all. Don't have any hope myself that the Messara report will make an iota of difference to the state of the industry or its future. Will probably just finally kill the virtually useless Racing Amendment Act which is already dead in the water. So you are saying that because of the way things are set up, it is an impotent situation, even when the unusual situation of a senior minister in the Govt, commissions the widely acknowledged best racing administrator in Australasia to review the situation I wonder how much, of those opposed, it is anti-Peters, and if the Nats where in power still and English and the Racing Minister had appointed Messara, how different the rhetoric might be. I know certain people would have a totally different viewpoint. Bearing in mind, that in 9 years the Nats ignored Racing My prediction, is that Messara will recommend fundamental change to the current model, he will detail what a modified model should be, and Peters will act on it. If the people that lead, can't change the system, then there is no hope, isn't that the criticism that there has been over the years, lack of leadership Edited July 23, 2018 by hesi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 10 hours ago, curious said: I fail to see what you hope that the report will do. The code body and its member clubs essentially run the game and I don't see how any report or recommendations will change the fact that they've done nothing except waste what money they've had for at least the last decade or so or make them do anything different in the future? Seems like pretty much another waste of time to me and I can't really see any use of the regional development funds being anything but political suicide and if it's only going to new track builds that are probably unsustainable, no help at all. Don't have any hope myself that the Messara report will make an iota of difference to the state of the industry or its future. Will probably just finally kill the virtually useless Racing Amendment Act which is already dead in the water. Lets just give up right now eh? You have always been pretty logical(even if I have argued over some points) and positive Curious but you seem to have abandoned ship. For instance what is the point of all this work you have done at Foxton if the industry is absolutely rooted? 1 hour ago, hesi said: So you are saying that because of the way things are set up, it is an impotent situation, even when the unusual situation of a senior minister in the Govt, commissions the widely acknowledged best racing administrator in Australasia to review the situation I wonder how much, of those opposed, it is anti-Peters, and if the Nats where in power still and English and the Racing Minister had appointed Messara, how different the rhetoric might be. I know certain people would have a totally different viewpoint. Bearing in mind, that in 9 years the Nats ignored Racing My prediction, is that Messara will recommend fundamental change to the current model, he will detail what a modified model should be, and Peters will act on it. If the people that lead, can't change the system, then there is no hope, isn't that the criticism that there has been over the years, lack of leadership You are of course correct Hesi National would have sat by and done nothing(and I am a National man). That is a major part of the problem - the Minister controls it and in Guys case he was an idiot who did nothing and in Winston's well who knows? Bringing some control back to to the participants is in my view a logical first step. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 10 hours ago, curious said: I fail to see what you hope that the report will do. The code body and its member clubs essentially run the game and I don't see how any report or recommendations will change the fact that they've done nothing except waste what money they've had for at least the last decade or so or make them do anything different in the future? Seems like pretty much another waste of time to me and I can't really see any use of the regional development funds being anything but political suicide and if it's only going to new track builds that are probably unsustainable, no help at all. Don't have any hope myself that the Messara report will make an iota of difference to the state of the industry or its future. Will probably just finally kill the virtually useless Racing Amendment Act which is already dead in the water. You and the loose lips looney from the Viaduct cesspit would make perfect bed partners C... ...are you in on the 'promoting the new Knat for the next Great White Hope Racing Minister' as the solution as well?? Not "an iota of difference" is definitely looney tunes...wake up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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