BEWARE: Petition doing the rounds with BS Information

[Chief Stipe]

Got sent the following asking to sign an online petition at Change.org:

Greyhounds are severely mistreated and abused throughout their lives for the purpose of sport. They are kept in wire cages for approximately 23 hours a day, unable to move freely and be active. They start racing at 18 months old and many don't make it to the "retirement" age of 4 or 5, even though their natural lifespan is anywhere between 10 to 14 years.

When they are injured, they are often killed as their injuries prevent them from racing again, or racing at the desired speeds. An even larger number of healthy greyhounds are killed simply because they don't run fast enough and therefore aren't economically viable.

Live baiting is a common practise in greyhound racing. Live rabbits, piglets, possums, and even kittens are mauled to death by the greyhounds as part of their training. 

As Kiwis, we are kind and compassionate towards one another. We've seen some pretty tough times and our empathy and grace bring us closer together and help others heal. I believe in the goodness of all of us in NZ. 

Since New Zealand is one of only eight countries to still carry out commercial greyhound racing, it's clear that we are falling behind and need to step up. I know I wouldn't want my dogs to be treated the same way we allow these dogs to be treated. We can help put an end to their suffering. It's time for the cruelty to end.

[aquaman]

Not a lot of bull shit information there Chief. Maybe the wire cage bit, but the rest fairly factual. I do not have stats, but would say at least 50% of Greyhounds whelped would not reach 5 yrs for one reason or another. Very few are rehomed compared to what is bred. Good ones may get a place on the couch with the owner or trainer, and they represent very few. 10% may get rehomed through GAP, but I am afraid the majority will not reach 5. They start racing here in NZ at 16 months, not 18, which is far to young. Live kills were very common, maybe now it has become more covert, and moved undercover. Puppy farming is the backbone of the industry, and those farmers would be responsible for the vast majority of greyhound culling, as its a numbers game with them. The days of lots of little people in the game with 2 or 3 dogs are well gone. They tended to look after their dogs better treating them more like pets. Nowadays with the encouragement of the NZGRA, big is better, and one way or another, they have actively discouraged owner trainers with small teams, preferring the farmers to dominate. As they sow, so shall they reap springs to mind. 

My opinion for what its worth is, the parent body being the NZGRA went the wrong way in deciding to allow 3/4 major breeders to dominate at the expense of the little breeder. Also allowing the open slather on unlimited imports from overseas dog farmers such as Wheeler etc on 50/50 deals has had an adverse effect on the longevity of the Greyhound. Many of the imports are non chasers, hence all the dogs wearing blinkers these days. These unwanted rejects from overseas then end up getting put down when they do not chase here and are put out. A lot of them are bred from and exasperate the problem by producing more non chasers which in turn end up down a hole. The useless f#cken NZGRA are led by clowns, and are and will be the demise of a once proud and great industry, they only have themselves to blame

[racinggreys]

1 hour ago, aquaman said:

Not a lot of bull shit information there Chief. Maybe the wire cage bit, but the rest fairly factual. I do not have stats, but would say at least 50% of Greyhounds whelped would not reach 5 yrs for one reason or another. Very few are rehomed compared to what is bred. Good ones may get a place on the couch with the owner or trainer, and they represent very few. 10% may get rehomed through GAP, but I am afraid the majority will not reach 5. They start racing here in NZ at 16 months, not 18, which is far to young. Live kills were very common, maybe now it has become more covert, and moved undercover. Puppy farming is the backbone of the industry, and those farmers would be responsible for the vast majority of greyhound culling, as its a numbers game with them. The days of lots of little people in the game with 2 or 3 dogs are well gone. They tended to look after their dogs better treating them more like pets. Nowadays with the encouragement of the NZGRA, big is better, and one way or another, they have actively discouraged owner trainers with small teams, preferring the farmers to dominate. As they sow, so shall they reap springs to mind. 

My opinion for what its worth is, the parent body being the NZGRA went the wrong way in deciding to allow 3/4 major breeders to dominate at the expense of the little breeder. Also allowing the open slather on unlimited imports from overseas dog farmers such as Wheeler etc on 50/50 deals has had an adverse effect on the longevity of the Greyhound. Many of the imports are non chasers, hence all the dogs wearing blinkers these days. These unwanted rejects from overseas then end up getting put down when they do not chase here and are put out. A lot of them are bred from and exasperate the problem by producing more non chasers which in turn end up down a hole. The useless f#cken NZGRA are led by clowns, and are and will be the demise of a once proud and great industry, they only have themselves to blame

They had their chance but as soon as the racing manager left they over turned it

https://www.grnz.co.nz/News/374/UPDATE-Import-fee-increase

[Cockyaleg]

My wife and I have adopted 4 ex-racers who were trained by 4 separate trainers. We cannot fault the care and effort that went into our dogs' training before retirement. Three dogs were adopted from 3 different rehoming agencies, the fourth we part-owned and raced. The majority of our friends have also adopted ex-racers and we belong to several ex-racer groups and forums. We have visited trainers' properties and facilities and have never seen any signs of mistreatment or substandard accommodation. We are no longer part of the industry due to a governance grievance. My wife and I follow the rehoming pages and can say with confidence that the majority of trainers do right by their dogs at retirement however soon that comes.

I am disappointed to read the above as it unfairly casts aspersions on all it's participants while making sweeping unsubstantiated statements regarding live baiting. I can only assume the post was penned in malice as a result of a personal grievance. I do not know that situation or the circumstances thereof. 

Our time in the industry was short but one thing we do agree with is that a few are responsible for the majority of greys bred and therein lies the problem. Whoever allowed the few to dominate failed to see the harm that the model will bring. I will speak specifically about the CD now. One trainer is taking the bulk of stakes which means the majority of trainers in that area are struggling to make ends meet. So what you might say, and that attitude is exactly the sentiment that has seen industry detractor numbers grow. That deficit could easily create welfare issues and discord. At a time when all should be working together, internal disharmony could easily derail the good that has been done.

We watched the recent awards speeches and were horrified by that given in the absence of the country's leading trainer. Question for you all, how many should one trainer be allowed to breed in pursuit of that one dog that could compete against the Aussies? 800? 1000? Right at this moment can't even beat the Kiwis.

[aquaman]

am disappointed to read the above as it unfairly casts aspersions on all it's participants while making sweeping unsubstantiated statements regarding live baiting. I can only assume the post was penned in malice as a result of a personal grievance. I do not know that situation or the circumstances thereof. 

 

Am glad you are disappointed with the above statement, it was not meant to be enjoyable. And unlike you who only had a fleeting flirt with Greyhound racing, I had active involvement from 1985 until 2017, so I feel more qualified to speak on the subject of live kills. If you took the time to read the post properly you would notice I said live kills [were] very common, and that [maybe] now it has become more covert, and moved undercover. I stand by that statement. 

It was not penned in malice as you put it, but rather to answer the title of this thread which describes the petition as bullshit. The facts are, a good portion of greyhounds are locked in kennels 23 hours a day, and that would apply to a lot of training establishments, the petition uses the term wire cages, but the reality is, kennels or wire cages are all the same to the dog, [confined] 20/23 hours a day. I personally do not have a problem with Greyhounds being locked up 20/23 hours a day as long as they are given exercise, and are treated, fed, and groomed etc, but as sure as hell, the wider public does. I also do not have a problem with the culling of unwanted Greyhounds as long as its done humanely, but the wider public sure as hell does. I have a problem with live kills, but have no problem with coursing dogs after rabbits or hares if caught in natural events, ie, put dog in paddock for run, and up pops a rabbit, tough luck for the rabbit. I have absolutely no problem with using road kills, or animal skins, unlike the useless NZGRA.

Good on you for adopting 4 Greyhounds, they make wonderful pets, I too have adopted 2 Greyhounds, they keep me walking.

And no, I do not bear any malice or have a personal grievance with the NZGRA or any of its employees, I just think their morons and stupid. If you new me, you would find I have been consistent in my criticism of the NZGRA over a period of 30yrs or more, in letters to the editor and Board before the advent of social media, and in recent times on Channel X until banned, and now on BOAY. My criticism has always been about policy and direction the industry was heading. They finally got me with a staged drug test on handlers one morning where I was asked to piss in a pot, and I had great delight in telling them to get F#CKED, result suspended 12 months. But believe me, I harbour know grudge or ill feeling, but rather think they did me a favour.

Greyhound racing will end, of this you can be certain, the question is,when. The new PC society will see to that, they now run the Western world, and the planet is the poorer for it. Racing by all three codes could of been extrapolated out if smart thinking and Governance structures were put in place long ago, but alas the opportunity has slipped, and the end is fast approaching. The best that could of been hoped for is a few more years, but the end result was always going to be the shutting down of using live animals for racing. Greyhound racing will survive in places like the Middle East where it all began, nothing will change there, and the Greyhound will find a place in the Western World as pets and companion dogs like all other breeds.

[Greyhounder]

John... dont suppose you ever watch the Oz program The Catching Pen but it certainly makes me think... they went from.tbe brink of destruction with greyhound racing over there to a flourishing.sport. A sport that has new big sponsers and new feature races all the time. It is an.innovative industry.over there full of young people with great ideas for the FUTURE. I really cant believe how they turned things round...so why the f.... can't we??? i know they get a lot State govt funding for building new facilities etc but these were the people that were gonna close it all down. We really need intelligent honest people at the top who can turn this shit around we havent hit the botton yet like Oz did ...could we find a Lazarus here? I hope so.

[Cockyaleg]

1 hour ago, aquaman said:

It was not penned in malice as you put it, but rather to answer the title of this thread which describes the petition as bullshit. The facts are, a good portion of greyhounds are locked in kennels 23 hours a day, and that would apply to a lot of training establishments, the petition uses the term wire cages, but the reality is, kennels or wire cages are all the same to the dog, [confined] 20/23 hours a day. I personally do not have a problem with Greyhounds being locked up 20/23 hours a day as long as they are given exercise, and are treated, fed, and groomed etc, but as sure as hell, the wider public does. I also do not have a problem with the culling of unwanted Greyhounds as long as its done humanely, but the wider public sure as hell does. I have a problem with live kills, but have no problem with coursing dogs after rabbits or hares if caught in natural events, ie, put dog in paddock for run, and up pops a rabbit, tough luck for the rabbit. I have absolutely no problem with using road kills, or animal skins, unlike the useless NZGRA.

 

My apologies for my incorrect assumption.

You are correct as to public feeling around live baiting and culling, as a member of the general population I would support the abolition of the sport if both are still widely practiced. Culling and baiting are two words that would end the sport. Life after racing is also a must if public licence is to be retained. Breeding and adoption must tally, anything else is unacceptable. The dairying industry is in crisis presently, major changes are coming, grehound racing is not immune. We support the industries varied welfare iniatives but they need to go further when looking at penalties and puppy farming. Wet bus tickets are just that.

I may not have your experience in the sport but I have followed greyhound racing since it became a totalisator option. I have witnessed the changes along the way. Racing generally is losing ground. Sports betting will become the country's number one preferred bet option. I do agree the writing is on the wall, but with the right guidance it is salvageable. However, finding people with guts and vision is easier said than done.

[BitofaLegend]

1 hour ago, Cockyaleg said:

My apologies for my incorrect assumption.

You are correct as to public feeling around live baiting and culling, as a member of the general population I would support the abolition of the sport if both are still widely practiced. Culling and baiting are two words that would end the sport. Life after racing is also a must if public licence is to be retained. Breeding and adoption must tally, anything else is unacceptable. The dairying industry is in crisis presently, major changes are coming, grehound racing is not immune. We support the industries varied welfare iniatives but they need to go further when looking at penalties and puppy farming. Wet bus tickets are just that.

I may not have your experience in the sport but I have followed greyhound racing since it became a totalisator option. I have witnessed the changes along the way. Racing generally is losing ground. Sports betting will become the country's number one preferred bet option. I do agree the writing is on the wall, but with the right guidance it is salvageable. However, finding people with guts and vision is easier said than done.

I would be very surprised if Cole was and is the only person still live/dead baiting.

[Hard Times]

2 hours ago, Greyhounder said:

John... dont suppose you ever watch the Oz program The Catching Pen but it certainly makes me think... they went from.tbe brink of destruction with greyhound racing over there to a flourishing.sport. A sport that has new big sponsers and new feature races all the time. It is an.innovative industry.over there full of young people with great ideas for the FUTURE. I really cant believe how they turned things round...so why the f.... can't we??? i know they get a lot State govt funding for building new facilities etc but these were the people that were gonna close it all down. We really need intelligent honest people at the top who can turn this shit around we havent hit the botton yet like Oz did ...could we find a Lazarus here? I hope so.

Sounds like they never really addressed the rehoming side of things there. From casual observation I would say the sport still faces the same image problems. They are not going to go away overnight. The pollies are not interested but it's the pollies and voters of the future that might upset the apple cart. Agree we had a number of opportunities here but just dug in rather than face up to the more uncomfortable aspects of what happens when you have fewer trainers with greater amount of dogs in training. 

[aquaman]

I came to the conclusion long ago NZ Greyhound racing has been dogged by a poor Governance structure. A structure that is set up to fail. Not since the days of Ron Kilpin and Josey Wales has the sport had leadership that had their heart in it. Since Ron and Josey,s departure we have had a succession of failed leaders and CEO'S that have had no hands on involvement or history in Greyhounds. Most of those failed leaders only filled the seat to further their careers in other realms. And most only stayed till the heat went on, then deserted like rats from a sinking ship. There has been no vision, no long term plan, and most of all, gutless weak decision making, crumbling to the loudest voices and vested interests. Thats the problem as I see it.

The solution has never changed. First you change the Constitution. You take the power from the Clubs and vest it in leadership within the NZGRA so as to facilitate tough decisions that will be unpopular with a lot of LP'S, decisions that can be implemented immediately. You could pick your leadership from within your ranks via a Presidential election among LP's. Candidates would have long term goals, and a vision for the future, and have an election cycle of 5 years so as to realize the goal. Who ever wins could pick their supporting staff. You need a team that are all on the same song sheet, and a leader that has the courage of their convictions. I no this is radical, but what you have now is band aid leadership that is reactionary and not visionary. It is going backwards and has lost its way. Pipe dream maybe, but it is an ulternative.

Edited November 12, 2019 by aquaman
incorrect spelling alternative

[aquaman]

That last word should be alternative, stupid.

[Yankiwi]

Where will we be headed when the Cole court dates start airing on TV3, Newshub & Stuff again?

Surely the GRNZ board & the CEO are well ready for it...

 

"Welfare is paramount" (hmmm)

"Any live baiter will be struck with a $10K fine under GRNZ rules" (lol)

"The RIU are the totally independent police of the industry & doing a top notch job" (Bigger lol)

"The RIU foresaw the seriousness of the potential charges & immediately handed the investigation over to the SPCA" (because the cupcake brigade could handle the situation far better)

These are the sort of responses well hear from GRNZ... They believe the words are justified & will weather the storm.

 

What kind of response did GRV & NSW come out with during their troubled times?

Well it wasn't any of the predictable responses GRNZ will have ready under their belt....

 

The only reason the industry hasn't been wound down already, is because Winston is a gutless wonder that will ultimatly use the incident for his personal gain via more time on the tube. 

[aquaman]

6 hours ago, Greyhounder said:

John... dont suppose you ever watch the Oz program The Catching Pen but it certainly makes me think... they went from.tbe brink of destruction with greyhound racing over there to a flourishing.sport. A sport that has new big sponsers and new feature races all the time. It is an.innovative industry.over there full of young people with great ideas for the FUTURE. I really cant believe how they turned things round...so why the f.... can't we??? i know they get a lot State govt funding for building new facilities etc but these were the people that were gonna close it all down. We really need intelligent honest people at the top who can turn this shit around we havent hit the botton yet like Oz did ...could we find a Lazarus here? I hope so.

No, must admit I do not watch the catching pen, but must say the Aussies do their racing shows well. My favorite is Get On, which concentrates on Victorian TB racing. Lots of laughs, and so natural. And agree, when the shit hit the fan in NSW, they delt with it decisively. They turned it around, and now look at them, stronger than ever. I take my hat off to them.

[Wassup]

What people do we have in our ranks that could turn the sport around 

[aquaman]

12 hours ago, Wassup said:

What people do we have in our ranks that could turn the sport around 

When you consider LP's mean, Owners,Trainers, Breeders, Kennel hands, etc, then the pool of talent is quite wide, do not have the figure, but it must run to several thousand. I suppose the hardest part would be finding a leader without bias, and a person with the eye on the big picture, and not their own backyard. We recently saw the departure of Craig Rendle at the top, and look how that turned out, now one of the biggest owners in the country, and winning literally everything in the CD with his mate Cole. Suppose the first thing that should happen is, whoever is leading the show must divest themselves of a financial interest in the game.

[gambler]

And his racing partner lisa Cole along with him him need to be shafted and shut down. And the sooner the better for the sport

[Freda]

On 12/11/2019 at 4:46 PM, aquaman said:

I came to the conclusion long ago NZ Greyhound racing has been dogged by a poor Governance structure. A structure that is set up to fail. Not since the days of Ron Kilpin and Josey Wales has the sport had leadership that had their heart in it. Since Ron and Josey,s departure we have had a succession of failed leaders and CEO'S that have had no hands on involvement or history in Greyhounds. Most of those failed leaders only filled the seat to further their careers in other realms. And most only stayed till the heat went on, then deserted like rats from a sinking ship. There has been no vision, no long term plan, and most of all, gutless weak decision making, crumbling to the loudest voices and vested interests. Thats the problem as I see it.

The solution has never changed. First you change the Constitution. You take the power from the Clubs and vest it in leadership within the NZGRA so as to facilitate tough decisions that will be unpopular with a lot of LP'S......

 

Interesting read....agree with most of what you say - from an outsider's point of view.       However,  in the galloping code,   ' power'  was taken away from the galloping clubs,  and the old Racing Conference replaced with the slick, professional model we were told we needed.

Hasn't that gone well ..?

[aquaman]

Hi Freda, did not know that the power had been taken from the Clubs in TB racing, and yes you are right, look at it now. I suppose when you stand back and look at the entire industry here in NZ, it was always going to fail. The real question is, how quick that failure was going to be. If things had been done differently, then I would suggest it could of been stretched out for a further 10 years than would now otherwise be. Its a rapidly changing world now, and a week is a long time. New generations are not into racing, and farming has changed, where once upon a time they were the backbone of the horse codes. Couple that with a small population, and the rise of the greenies, then the future was always going to be bleak.

Australia has always had the edge on NZ by virtue of population, and a culture of gamblers, so they will last longer. NZ I think made the mistake of trying to compete with them rather than modeling its own future to suit our own needs. The end result will be the same for Australia eventually as they are facing the same problems as here, greenies, new generations, technology, and choice. Sad really, but one thing we have, we enjoyed the good times when racing was on top.

[Cockyaleg]

11 hours ago, Freda said:

Interesting read....agree with most of what you say - from an outsider's point of view.       However,  in the galloping code,   ' power'  was taken away from the galloping clubs,  and the old Racing Conference replaced with the slick, professional model we were told we needed.

Hasn't that gone well ..?

Radical Thinking.

All the smaller TB trainers I have associated with over the years have gone and not because they lacked talent. Many went on to work for larger operations, some headed to Australia. Two are still employed as foremen here. If it weren't for exports many more would have gone with them. Exports have seen the standard of racing talent decline in NZ. Melody Belle's few and far between. 

I have wagered on course at most North Island tracks and had a great time doing so, but the sheer number of clubs and tracks throughout the country was not sustainable. The halcyon days of racing are long gone. Racing authorities ignored the trends that would have been glaringly obvious to financial analysts. Back in the 70's and 80's competition for the discretionary dollar was very limited. Social events were few and far between. The races were family events. Mum, Dad, and the kids were regulars on a Saturday. These days Mum and Dad work six days a week. Saturday is no longer a day off for a good proportion of the workforce. When the working week changed, racing should have changed with it moving Saturday racing to Sunday. In business, the market is constantly changing. Those who thrive adapt, those who fail don't. I can give you a list of reasons why racing has reached this point. Sports across the country are also suffering for many of the reasons racing is failing. NZ Rugby is feeling the effects of over-saturation. Why pay a ridiculous amount of money to go watch a match live, when you get unlimited choice and the best seat in town at home in front of the telly?

This is my opinion for what it's worth. Historically clubs large and small spent far to much time fighting against each other. Heads in the sand in regard to the future and financial sustainability. When the hay days began to fade, consolidation would have been the prudent way forward. I know some larger clubs were opposed, not our problem mentality. It fast became everyone's problem which has to lead to the present situation. Track closures were inevitable. The introduction of LOTTO, scratchies, pokies, bricks, and mortar and online casinos, sports betting, and access to Australian bookies and betting agencies has severely diminished racing's market share. It will require radical thinking to turn racing around, BUT that will only prolong the inevitable.

[Aussie aussie aussie]

On 19/11/2019 at 7:01 PM, Cockyaleg said:

Radical Thinking.

All the smaller TB trainers I have associated with over the years have gone and not because they lacked talent. Many went on to work for larger operations, some headed to Australia. Two are still employed as foremen here. If it weren't for exports many more would have gone with them. Exports have seen the standard of racing talent decline in NZ. Melody Belle's few and far between. 

I have wagered on course at most North Island tracks and had a great time doing so, but the sheer number of clubs and tracks throughout the country was not sustainable. The halcyon days of racing are long gone. Racing authorities ignored the trends that would have been glaringly obvious to financial analysts. Back in the 70's and 80's competition for the discretionary dollar was very limited. Social events were few and far between. The races were family events. Mum, Dad, and the kids were regulars on a Saturday. These days Mum and Dad work six days a week. Saturday is no longer a day off for a good proportion of the workforce. When the working week changed, racing should have changed with it moving Saturday racing to Sunday. In business, the market is constantly changing. Those who thrive adapt, those who fail don't. I can give you a list of reasons why racing has reached this point. Sports across the country are also suffering for many of the reasons racing is failing. NZ Rugby is feeling the effects of over-saturation. Why pay a ridiculous amount of money to go watch a match live, when you get unlimited choice and the best seat in town at home in front of the telly?

This is my opinion for what it's worth. Historically clubs large and small spent far to much time fighting against each other. Heads in the sand in regard to the future and financial sustainability. When the hay days began to fade, consolidation would have been the prudent way forward. I know some larger clubs were opposed, not our problem mentality. It fast became everyone's problem which has to lead to the present situation. Track closures were inevitable. The introduction of LOTTO, scratchies, pokies, bricks, and mortar and online casinos, sports betting, and access to Australian bookies and betting agencies has severely diminished racing's market share. It will require radical thinking to turn racing around, BUT that will only prolong the inevitable.

Unfortunately john you are a sad man and you know what ,  you can bleat as much as you want to but you are now a failure that can make no difference,  only bleating on this site to put the sport down that bought you so much success  , you are the loser as you once had credibility now you have nothing .

[Cockyaleg]

12 hours ago, Aussie aussie aussie said:

Unfortunately john you are a sad man and you know what ,  you can bleat as much as you want to but you are now a failure that can make no difference,  only bleating on this site to put the sport down that bought you so much success  , you are the loser as you once had credibility now you have nothing .

I have no idea who John is? My post was about TB management not greyhound racing. And apart from owning and racing one greyhound and adopting 4 others, I have never held a professional position in that sport. Never been involved in training.

[aquaman]

20 minutes ago, Cockyaleg said:

I have no idea who John is? My post was about TB management not greyhound racing. And apart from owning and racing one greyhound and adopting 4 others, I have never held a professional position in that sport. Never been involved in training.

Probably referring to me Cocky, but I can take it, water off a ducks back.??