Will Racing Die?

[Happy Sunrise]

Will Covid 19 be the tipping point that shatters the illusion of solvency of horse racing in NZ?

When I read or recall about the following in harness racing ( and a bit of gallops) I wonder how on earth things will ever get better.  It is pretty depressing but can someone tell me how racing will ever get to a sustainable position again?

• Mick Guerin's article on the state of racing
• Lincoln Farms articles on the state of racing
• RITA carrying $45 million worth of loans
• The enormous annual cost of the TAB website  to the tune of $17 million
• The decline of Northern harness racing where they can't even get full fields or 10 races per meeting
• Breeding numbers declining to record lows
• The loss of industry supporters eg PGG
• The debacle of the Alexandra Park apartment complex and debt associated with it
• The decline of grass track meetings around the North Island over summer
• The negative perception of the RIU
• INCA and shroud of doubt it casts over the whole industry
• The unease over horse and dog welfare by the public with several public flashpoints
• The continual back biting and lack of genuine consultaton between sectors of the industry
• The rising trend of sports betting and expectations of those sports
• The impending closing of tracks around NZ and the implications of those
• The black hole of costs associated with owning and training horses compared to stakes level
• The unknown nature of stake levels in the future
• Winter postponements of meetings (mainly gallops) due to poor track conditions
• The continual export of horses overseas which affect quality and quantity of races in NZ
• The thriving Australian galloping scence with its high stakes
• The disassociation to racing by the younger generation

 

[The Diceman's Been]

Well said sir.

BUT, I have to confess I have my eye on a weanling in the auction tomorrow. 

Do I take a punt and convince myself that things will have turned 180 degrees in the next 12 to 18 months (please Lord make it happen) or do I put my money on the Warriors to win the wooden Spoon?

If I do happen to get it, I will name it UPROOTED .

 

[Happy Sunrise]

9 minutes ago, The Diceman's Been said:

Do I take a punt and convince myself that things will have turned 180 degrees in the next 12 to 18 months (please Lord make it happen) or do I put my money on the Warriors to win the wooden Spoon?

At least with one of those bets you will be happy to see continual losses...

But I say show the faith and buy UPROOTED

[Rangatira]

its a grim read happy

given its return to the codes, what the racing board / rita costs is an absolute disgrace but this has been known for quite some time

557 full time and 38 part time employees (according to wage subsidy application) fook me is that 313k a week

looks like a sinking ship giving the recent reduction on incomings

surely if there was good news in the overdue half yearly report it would have been released on time

 

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Rangatira

[hunterthepunter]

1 hour ago, Rangatira said:

its a grim read happy

given its return to the codes, what the racing board / rita costs is an absolute disgrace but this has been known for quite some time

557 full time and 38 part time employees (according to wage subsidy application) fook me is that 313k a week

looks like a sinking ship giving the recent reduction on incomings

surely if there was good news in the overdue half yearly report it would have been released on time

 

 

hey rangatira you will have to take a pay cut 

[Rangatira]

3 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said:

hey rangatira you will have to take a pay cut 

just for 34 more sleeps

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Rangatira said:

given its return to the codes, what the racing board / rita costs is an absolute disgrace but this has been known for quite some time

557 full time and 38 part time employees (according to wage subsidy application) fook me is that 313k a week

I look at the RITA site and read their flashy news reports etc to try and understand their remedies for the very big picture stuff. There remedies seem plausible  but they seem to come with caveats which lessen the realism of what is written

Out of that list in the original post, RITA would not be responsible for most of them (?) so what responsibility do HRNZ and the actual clubs take in all of this decline?

Are all of the industry participants disconnected from each other?

[Brodie]

Happy, you have done very well to write all those not so positive things.

Some of things can be altered and improved but very few unfortunately.

The whole system needs to be overhauled as there will not be enough horses to race as owners will not wanting to be paying out thousands per month to race for bugger all.

There are very few new punters being attracted to the game and without new punters, then racing is stuffed.

Galloping trainers are saying that they are looking to move to Australia in the future but that has been happening for years.

There is a helluva difference between the ability to win money in Oz and NZ.

The Ozzies are still racing and people making money, however we have been totally closed down by a government who has over reacted, but then they wouldn’t care about  that.

Racing is stuffed for the foreseeable future, and will be doubtful if it will be able to recover to where the existing stake money is!

Can trainers afford to drop their training costs to make it somewhat not as expensive to race a horse?

Would doubt it except for the blue and silver, but then many of the extras would need to be dropped.

[Happy Sunrise]

55 minutes ago, Brodie said:

There are very few new punters being attracted to the game and without new punters, then racing is stuffed.

RITA says number of the punters is increasing if I read correctly. The value of those punters is the question.

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Racing is stuffed for the foreseeable future, and will be doubtful if it will be able to recover to where the existing stake money is!

Maybe it is time to justify those big salaries.

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

The whole system needs to be overhauled as there will not be enough horses to race as owners will not wanting to be paying out thousands per month to race for bugger all.

I think from the entities from the HRNZ down need to get on the same page. Overhauling things is hard work. I would just start again.

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Happy, you have done very well to write all those not so positive things.

It was just off the top of my head and I took no pleasure in it. I think it can all be fixed as long as there is the will and the coordination of everyone involved. From the outside looking in it looks very divisive and a mish mash of band aid solutions.

[Rusty]

I can't really add anything to what the above posters have said. I agree with them all.

NZ Racing is shot and the Chinese flu will be the final nail in the coffin unfortunately. 

I just hope that one day, it will be resurrected, without all the current dead wood.

My fear is by the time it is resurrected (if it is), will the racing participants (breeders, owners, trainers, drivers, stable staff, sponsors, "media", punters, etc and facilities such as racecourses and TAB outlets (or even the TAB), still be here? 

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

RITA says number of the punters is increasing if I read correctly. The value of those punters is the question.

Maybe it is time to justify those big salaries.

I think from the entities from the HRNZ down need to get on the same page. Overhauling things is hard work. I would just start again.

It was just off the top of my head and I took no pleasure in it. I think it can all be fixed as long as there is the will and the coordination of everyone involved. From the outside looking in it looks very divisive and a mish mash of band aid solutions.

Rita are delusional if they think there are more punters on horse racing than there used to be.

Tote turnover has been down for a long time, but we don’t know how much is being bet  with the Bookies on fixed.

RITA.  Need to cut their employee no.s and justify why so many are on whopping salaries as it is just blatant uneconomical and then they have the cheek to want a handout from the taxpayer????

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Rusty said:

without all the current dead wood.

What is the dead wood in your eyes?

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Rita are delusional if they think there are more punters on horse racing than there used to be.

It will most likely be new accounts for betting on sports

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

RITA.  Need to cut their employee no.s and justify why so many are on whopping salaries as it is just blatant uneconomical and then they have the cheek to want a handout from the taxpayer????

The salaries seem to be the target of a lot of rage and ridcule (I have joined in too) but slashing a million or two from salaries won't change too much. 

They probably should ask for handout shouldn't they?  Seems to be a helluva queue at the government's door for money so why not. It would be an easy start to the restructuring of the industry. Is that morally or economically right? probably not, but if they are trying to save their own arses first it will probably happen. No harm in asking is there?? The question is after getting the bailout would they take to their own salaries? 

[Brodie]

22 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

It will most likely be new accounts for betting on sports

The salaries seem to be the target of a lot of rage and ridcule (I have joined in too) but slashing a million or two from salaries won't change too much. 

They probably should ask for handout shouldn't they?  Seems to be a helluva queue at the government's door for money so why not. It would be an easy start to the restructuring of the industry. Is that morally or economically right? probably not, but if they are trying to save their own arses first it will probably happen. No harm in asking is there?? The question is after getting the bailout would they take to their own salaries? 

Happy, it could well be sport cos it wouldn’t be people opening accounts to bet on racing.

You only need to look at the pools for the Ozzie Harness Racing at the moment, not sure whether the pools are comingled with Oz at the mo!

Often there is less than $1000 combined for win and place.

The TAB should stand on their own as far as operating.
Why should a monopoly like the TAB need money to operate.

They are going to make money for the year, if not then they should go into liquidation just like every other business.

We can not continue to just give money away to everyone that puts their hand out and also those that don’t!

This government has not got a clue about business, and how we are going to get out of this mess.

Twyford, who was Mr KiwIMess I meant KiwiBuild is the minister of Economic Development, so seriously we are stuffed!!!!!!!!

[Rangatira]

12 hours ago, Brodie said:

RITA.  Need to cut their employee no.s and justify why so many are on whopping salaries as it is just blatant uneconomical and then they have the cheek to want a handout from the taxpayer????

how much are they looking for and roughly what for ?

[Rangatira]

10 hours ago, Brodie said:

The TAB should stand on their own as far as operating.
Why should a monopoly like the TAB need money to operate.

They are going to make money for the year, if not then they should go into liquidation just like every other business.

they need some competition first especially on the bookmaking front

any chance we could go totalisator only for racing 

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Rangatira said:

how much are they looking for and roughly what for ?

Article didn’t say how much wanted!

They wanted a taxpayer handout because their turnover was going to be suffering!!!!

[Brodie]

1 hour ago, Rangatira said:

they need some competition first especially on the bookmaking front

any chance we could go totalisator only for racing 

Any chance they could go Fixed Odds only for racing?

[Rangatira]

5 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Any chance they could go Fixed Odds only for racing?

very unlikely

more chance of tab's opening in level 3 

Edited April 26, 2020 by Rangatira

[Nowornever]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Any chance they could go Fixed Odds only for racing?

Yes and I heard they will do away with retail outlets and self service TABs and force everyone online in an effort to stop the restricted punters from sneakily "investing" too much and reducing the profits.

[Rusty]

15 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

What is the dead wood in your eyes?

In my eyes, there is a lot of dead wood. 

Just one example would be the recent post on here (may have even been yours, Happy?), about the management team at Alex Park. There was a photo included within the post of their management team, possibly also the directors from memory. Looked like a line up of mug shots, or people striking a pose pretending to sign very important documents. Dead wood. The lot of them, minus 2 or 3 individuals I think we concluded on here. 

And that is just one club. 

It was also revealed recently NZMTC have over 100 staff on their books. Dead wood. Get rid of half them. Then get rid of anybody else that complains from the remaining half. Yes, clubs need personnel to run a successful organisation, but jesus the numbers seem overkill. 

Likewise, RITA, their staffing numbers, associated costs and expenditure are absurd. The RIU, has had it's moments, again with costs and expenditure that is sometimes questionable. The JCA... do we need the JCA at all, if the stipes were all fully competent? Jury is out on that one maybe... potentially dead wood there. 

The large salaries paid to so many individuals is overkill, bordering on criminal. John Allen and his executive team were all on huge money... for what return? Another example of dead wood. 

It seems to me, the backbone of the racing industry and the grassroots of the industry, are the people at the lower end of the wage spectrum. They earn average coin, or in some cases below average. These are the folk that have racing, racing through their veins and have far more common sense than what a lot of management and executive leadership teams (within RITA) seem to have. If the racing game is to ever come back from the dead, it needs a massive overhaul, starting with expenses (especially salaries) and restructuring.

Removing the dead wood, would be a start. 

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Rusty said:

It was also revealed recently NZMTC have over 100 staff on their books. Dead wood. Get rid of half them. Then get rid of anybody else that complains from the remaining half. Yes, clubs need personnel to run a successful organisation, but jesus the numbers seem overkill. 

Likewise, RITA, their staffing numbers, associated costs and expenditure are absurd. The RIU, has had it's moments, again with costs and expenditure that is sometimes questionable. The JCA... do we need the JCA at all, if the stipes were all fully competent? Jury is out on that one maybe... potentially dead wood there. 

The large salaries paid to so many individuals is overkill, bordering on criminal. John Allen and his executive team were all on huge money... for what return? Another example of dead wood. 

It would be a start but I reckon these days big wigs want to believe they have to do so much so they employ people around them, but, in reality, it is just to lessen their workload so they can swan around or have another pointless meeting.

1 hour ago, Rusty said:

It seems to me, the backbone of the racing industry and the grassroots of the industry, are the people at the lower end of the wage spectrum. They earn average coin, or in some cases below average. These are the folk that have racing, racing through their veins and have far more common sense than what a lot of management and executive leadership teams (within RITA) seem to have. If the racing game is to ever come back from the dead, it needs a massive overhaul, starting with expenses (especially salaries) and restructuring.

Restructuring to bring some coherency to the industry would be a start. But to be fair, RITA and HRNZ seem to outline what they want to achieve in the future. To me, it seems like everyone is just out to save their own bacon. Look at what happened when they announced the possible closing of clubs look at the response to that. Each level of the industry seems to have their own interests at the forefront and even within those levels there is competition eg ATC and Cambridge. Nothing is going to improve with these attitudes.

Looking at the HRNZ report of 2019 is interesting.

When you read this paragraph you doesn't it give you cause for optimism? Why is this not trumpeted as it will bring an extra $13m a year to the codes. Where will this money go?

Some clubs may not survive coronvirus if HRNZ and RITA get their knives out. The 4 clubs being used to bring racing back in may signal a sign of what is too come. Clubs like Waimate could struggle?

What are the 'number of factors' that caused it to go down from $553 000 to $195 000 ? Is it significant distribution reserves are nearly exhausted and forecasts will not be realised?

Is HRNZ the only entity which is operating on a minimal scale and in the interests of the industry?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rusty]

2 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

I reckon these days big wigs want to believe they have to do so much so they employ people around them, but, in reality, it is just to lessen their workload so they can swan around or have another pointless meeting.

Dead right, 100%. 

Have seen this happen over and over again, predominantly within the public service and councils especially. 

[Brodie]

I know it won’t happen but it would be good if RITA would actually advise us all of the no.of employees and what they are employed to do, so that we can have an understanding of why there are such numbers!!
 

It would be astounding as to the salaries that some of these people are getting for doing eff all, and they want a handout from the taxpayer, who already are paying their exorbitant salaries by way of punting!!!

Need to sort their shit out as they will not be a viable proposition goi g forward with their cost structure.

[curious]

On 26/04/2020 at 1:28 PM, The Diceman's Been said:

Well said sir.

BUT, I have to confess I have my eye on a weanling in the auction tomorrow. 

Do I take a punt and convince myself that things will have turned 180 degrees in the next 12 to 18 months (please Lord make it happen) or do I put my money on the Warriors to win the wooden Spoon?

If I do happen to get it, I will name it UPROOTED .

 

How did you go?