Tim Carter Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 Finbarr Leahy had the last laugh on his good mates Sam Beatson and Ben Foote when he sold Lot 54 for 525k . Finbarr bid up on the horse at the yearling sales and stalled when the bid got to 80k. Sam and Ben egged Finbarr to go again so he secured the Sacred Star colt for 85K thinking they would take a share. They both laughed and declined to be involved. Sam and Ben were over the moon for Finbarr but kicking themselves a bit but a great result all round for the 3 mates. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted November 21, 2020 Share Posted November 21, 2020 I note horse is full brother to Viva Chef recent 1000M winner at Happy Valley. OK maybe quite impressive after being wide but I query how valuable is Happy Valley form. The Sacred Falls seem to be going much better now but dissapointing until now. Stlll after after visiting breednet and seeing the prices paid for yearlings now running in maidens around NSW then a ready made racehorse probably a better buy. Its quite common to see on breednet yearling sale price $500,000. Recent online sale $2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carter Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 I thought he was well brought at that price. I had him at 150 to 200K. You are right, 2 close relations in class 4 HK so it doesn't add up. However his breezeup was very impressive and quite a nice horse as well . Great work by Finnbar to spot him as a yearling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 Tim, what are your thoughts on the Cambridge AWT ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carter Posted November 22, 2020 Author Share Posted November 22, 2020 Hi Pam, So far most trainers have been happy with it. Shinsore horses seem to appreciate the surface according to some. It seems to stand up to the heavy rain very well so that's a huge plus. Tomorrows trials will be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bid Posted November 22, 2020 Share Posted November 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Tim Carter said: Hi Pam, So far most trainers have been happy with it. Shinsore horses seem to appreciate the surface according to some. It seems to stand up to the heavy rain very well so that's a huge plus. Tomorrows trials will be interesting. Why are they working them shinsore anyway? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carter Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 Maybe there are no properly shinsore? Who knows. Just a comment I heard but the point I am making is that some horses seem to appreciate the cushioning effect of the track. Are you a trainer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 5 hours ago, Bid said: Why are they working them shinsore anyway? Isn't an exercise program designed to keep the horse sound and encourage active and long-term re-modeling to permanently adapt the cannon bones to fast exercise the recommended treatment for shin soreness? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, curious said: Isn't an exercise program designed to keep the horse sound and encourage active and long-term re-modeling to permanently adapt the cannon bones to fast exercise the recommended treatment for shin soreness? I should think so, yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bid Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 21 minutes ago, Tim Carter said: Maybe there are no properly shinsore? Who knows. Just a comment I heard but the point I am making is that some horses seem to appreciate the cushioning effect of the track. Are you a trainer? Try to train a few, predominantly slow ones in recent times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 22 minutes ago, Freda said: I should think so, yes. Perhaps our resident Cafe veterinarian would comment. It seems to me though that a track that consistently provides some give would be a valuable asset in executing such a programme. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, curious said: Perhaps our resident Cafe veterinarian would comment. It seems to me though that a track that consistently provides some give would be a valuable asset in executing such a programme. Question - how, then, would a beautifully cushioned surface help with encouraging skeletal development with the aim of managing firm grass tracks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Freda said: Question - how, then, would a beautifully cushioned surface help with encouraging skeletal development with the aim of managing firm grass tracks? I don't claim to be an expert on this. I'll leave that to the veterinarians and scientists. However, from my experience and reading etc. the same principles apply to both prevention and treatment of skeletal injury such as shin soreness. This was discussed elsewhere in relation to the bone conditioning of European horses coming to Oz. I also don't mean to suggest that horses should be worked when they have severe acute shin soreness with considerable pain and inflammation which is maybe what Bid was referring to. However, hopefully these days not too many horses get to that point. Anyway, I agree Freda with the point you seem to be making that to condition bone for firm surfaces, the bone needs to be exposed to work on firm surfaces. Where I thought the AWT would be helpful is that horses with beginning signs of shin soreness could continue to work on it, or resume work on it sooner, before being re-exposed to fast work on firmer surfaces, meanwhile still getting a degree of concussion that helped the bone healing and re-modelling without risking aggravation of the injury. It will be interesting to see what impact the AWTs will have on the incidence of both shin soreness and catastrophic injury. I think training solely or primarily on an AWT then racing on a firm grass surface is a recipe for disaster. So, after all that Freda, my short answer is I think it can help but on its own is not sufficient. JMO. Interested in others' thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 i'm intrigued to see how it goes being raced on every few weeks, next year should be interesting. Is there an unlimited supply of the sand/poly that makes up the track? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 24 minutes ago, curious said: I don't claim to be an expert on this. I'll leave that to the veterinarians and scientists. However, from my experience and reading etc. the same principles apply to both prevention and treatment of skeletal injury such as shin soreness. This was discussed elsewhere in relation to the bone conditioning of European horses coming to Oz. I also don't mean to suggest that horses should be worked when they have severe acute shin soreness with considerable pain and inflammation which is maybe what Bid was referring to. However, hopefully these days not too many horses get to that point. Anyway, I agree Freda with the point you seem to be making that to condition bone for firm surfaces, the bone needs to be exposed to work on firm surfaces. Where I thought the AWT would be helpful is that horses with beginning signs of shin soreness could continue to work on it, or resume work on it sooner, before being re-exposed to fast work on firmer surfaces, meanwhile still getting a degree of concussion that helped the bone healing and re-modelling without risking aggravation of the injury. It will be interesting to see what impact the AWTs will have on the incidence of both shin soreness and catastrophic injury. I think training solely or primarily on an AWT then racing on a firm grass surface is a recipe for disaster. So, after all that Freda, my short answer is I think it can help but on its own is not sufficient. JMO. Interested in others' thoughts. FWIW.......I was lucky enough to have been foreman to the greatest trainer of 2yo's Oz had ever seen.......I learned heaps, more than I can say........but one thing I can say, the boss turned out every shinny youngster, at the very first sign...he was also a stallion maker, his take, at the first sign of pain, they'll not put in, and it then becomes a habit.......so, prevention is better than cure. Having said that, I witnessed some instances in NZ where out came the bute, ice boots, swelldown, you name it, and the horses were so short in their action it beggared belief.......first off it's bloody cruel, and only the brain dead would do it...but hey, there's plenty out there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Anyway, I agree Freda with the point you seem to be making that to condition bone for firm surfaces, the bone needs to be exposed to work on firm surfaces. Where I thought the AWT would be helpful is that horses with beginning signs of shin soreness could continue to work on it, or resume work on it sooner, before being re-exposed to fast work on firmer surfaces, meanwhile still getting a degree of concussion that helped the bone healing and re-modelling without risking aggravation of the injury. Yes, [ sorry, Tim, for hijacking your thread ] that was the point, after all the furore about A. v D, and the highlighting of the injuries of predominantly UK horses in the Melbourne Cup recently, it seemed to me to be replicating the very conditions that may have led to those injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 You can understand, that all this discussion has led to a great deal of chat between me and my English training partner, he - rightly - points out that many yards in England only have an AWT for use, and then race on grass without problems; John Dunlop being one. However, I would doubt that UK tracks would often - if ever - get as uncompromisingly hard and/or rough as can happen here and in Aus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carter Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 There are lots of theories about how to manage shin soreness. Most agree that a 6 week turn out is the way to go. However some argue that it is best to work a marginally shinsore horse through it. Even turning out shinsore horses at the very first sign can lead to recurring shin soreness when bought back into work. Most trainers know about the remodelling process etc etc . Even the stories about the old time trainers blistering the shins etc etc is old hat. As we all know horses can even become shinsore working in winter conditions so it stands to reason that an AWT is not really going to be any different. It was just an observation by a trainer here who said his horse ( I would say it would have been marginally shinsore) seemed happier on the AWT. I assume horses who are a bit" jointy "might like the cushioning affect of the AWT. In regards to our new track, some trainers are restricting their horses to slow pacework on , others are galloping on it, some love it, some dont'. Time will tell. It might have been prudent for the other 2 new tracks to have been put on hold until the verdict comes in on this one????? Anyway the happiest trainer in Cambridge at the moment is Finnbar Leahy!!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, Freda said: You can understand, that all this discussion has led to a great deal of chat between me and my English training partner, he - rightly - points out that many yards in England only have an AWT for use, and then race on grass without problems; John Dunlop being one. However, I would doubt that UK tracks would often - if ever - get as uncompromisingly hard and/or rough as can happen here and in Aus. I think that's the point Freda re the UK horses. The non-AWT gallops are nowhere near the hardness of firmer Australasian tracks even at worst. Good few years ago now but I'd say I never saw a gallop in Ireland anywhere much better than dead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Tim Carter said: might have been prudent for the other 2 new tracks to have been put on hold until the verdict comes in on this one????? Or at least until a finalised plan was available to fix the turf tracks at Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Awapuni, Trentham and Riccarton. BTW do they still race at Trentham? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 7 hours ago, Tim Carter said: In regards to our new track, some trainers are restricting their horses to slow pacework on , others are galloping on it, some love it, some dont'. Time will tell. It might have been prudent for the other 2 new tracks to have been put on hold until the verdict comes in on this one????? Anyway the happiest trainer in Cambridge at the moment is Finnbar Leahy!!!! Have any of the RTR horses used the new track including Finnbar's. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Carter Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Not sure on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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