Why does Opee Bosson feel the need to CHEAT?

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Of course Walker and Cheating Opee should have lost these placings

6 is an error with a suspension...7 a long suspension and fine...

8 is DEFINITELY requiring a DQ

Hope that helps

But those aren't the penalties are they?  So once again you are writing fiction.

Feel free to post your review submission on BOAY.  

[Gammalite]

29 minutes ago, Thomass said:

"whipping forces horses to move @3L FASTER"

Cheating Opee couldn't help himself...4 times in a year...and BLATANTLY 

Of course Walker and Cheating Opee should have lost these placings

6 is an error with a suspension...7 a long suspension and fine...

8 is DEFINITELY requiring a DQ

Hope that helps

Thank you ..hahaha ...... fair enough. You are convinced of his Evil Intent. (compared to others lol) 

The fact ALL (or nearly all)  the horses in that race were under a whipping , not so evil or Blatant I guess.

WALKER admitted in his Melbourne Cup smack-up's that he threw out the rule-book to gain best possible position, which is what he is Paid To Do. Interesting to note KAH rode Prince Of Arran into 3rd in the last Melbourne Cup 2020 so achieved a similar result to Walkers 2 rides , but with a much LESS aggressive ride.

Certainly hoping Opie is learning to count during suspension (for your sake and level of discomfort you are feeling lol...) more than horses which will be in some 'discomfort' anyway as it approaches the Finish Line.

[Thomass]

Well done...you guessed right AND you didn't mention those disgraceful excuses for an equine...top marks

Cheating Opee doesn't need to learn to count though...

If he wants to cheat he cheats...

Davo Ellis says he "abhors unfair advantage"

What Big Dave needs to do to live the Gospel according to Dave...

Is A/ Teach Opee to count...and....

 B/ STOP cheating

What he fails to realise is that Opee thinks he's God and as his partner says...

"Opee's VERY STRONGLY for the Whip"

And leaving WELT mark on his mounts

Like Vow and Declare's Jock did when winning the Cup

 

[Gammalite]

3 hours ago, Thomass said:

A/ Teach Opee to count...and....

 B/ STOP cheating

What he fails to realise is that Opee thinks he's God and as his partner says...

"Opee's VERY STRONGLY for the Whip"

And leaving WELT mark on his mounts

Like Vow and Declare's Jock did when winning the Cup

Very awful looking picture of "Vow and Declare" there Thomass. oh dear.

Couldn't Most Jockeys leave welts like that ? Using the 5 strikes allowed before 100m point. ?

So ALL the horses are a chance of this happening to them .......  I say YES. 

NOT just Opie either VERY STRONG as you say, 

not long after Willow williams won the Cup with Vow and Declare , Had a BIG whip ride on Yogi too !!!

Craig Williams Sandown Cup win with YOGI ,  12 strikes prior to 100m point      7 meeting suspension

Hugh Bowman Marmelo 2nd in Mel Cup,   12 strikes prior to 100m point       10k fine

Michael Walker  Prince of Arran 2nd in Cup  , 12 strikes prior to 100m point  7 meetings and 10k fine

Kerrin McEvoy  TIGER MOTH 2nd in the 2020 Mel Cup just the other day, (co fav with a LOT of money on) so copped 13 strikes prior to the 100m point, penalty 13 meetings suspension , 50k fine reduced to 30k on appeal.

GOD DAMN IT !! they're getting worse each year !!!   Bloody Cheats !!

you'd think they're trying to win or something.

more strikes than Opie did, leading this thread here complaint too !!!!!!   even BIGGER Cheats these mugs ????  lol....

so some more Counting Classes are necessary for these Cheat jockeys too? lol...... 

Throw the thing away!! I say and avoid all this hassle. Was bad enough the Anthony Van Dyke horse breaking down in front of the world in the last Cup. Very sad.  Could you imagine the uproar and TOTAL CHAOS if they took a placing off a runner in a Group 1 for a whip offence ???? 

Phase Whip Out?  What about if a Jockey 'Breaks the Whip Rule" then as a Penalty, they have to ride 'X' amount of races afterwards without one?  then another offence , even more meetings , and so on ???  Gee , they would learn to count REAL QUICK!!!!!. lol. 

Kerrin McEvoy

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Thomass said:

Is A/ Teach Opee to count...and....

 B/ STOP cheating

Then gets beaten by someone else who bends the rules?  Yeah right.  

Change the penalties if you want Jockey's to stay within the rules.  

Hell I drive 110 to 120 km on the open road.  When I clock a fine and some demerits I show a bit more restraint.

[Thomass]

On 17/03/2021 at 3:48 PM, Gammalite said:

Very awful looking picture of "Vow and Declare" there Thomass. oh dear.

Couldn't Most Jockeys leave welts like that ? Using the 5 strikes allowed before 100m point. ?

So ALL the horses are a chance of this happening to them .......  I say YES. 

NOT just Opie either VERY STRONG as you say, 

not long after Willow williams won the Cup with Vow and Declare , Had a BIG whip ride on Yogi too !!!

Craig Williams Sandown Cup win with YOGI ,  12 strikes prior to 100m point      7 meeting suspension

Hugh Bowman Marmelo 2nd in Mel Cup,   12 strikes prior to 100m point       10k fine

Michael Walker  Prince of Arran 2nd in Cup  , 12 strikes prior to 100m point  7 meetings and 10k fine

Kerrin McEvoy  TIGER MOTH 2nd in the 2020 Mel Cup just the other day, (co fav with a LOT of money on) so copped 13 strikes prior to the 100m point, penalty 13 meetings suspension , 50k fine reduced to 30k on appeal.

GOD DAMN IT !! they're getting worse each year !!!   Bloody Cheats !!

you'd think they're trying to win or something.

more strikes than Opie did, leading this thread here complaint too !!!!!!   even BIGGER Cheats these mugs ????  lol....

so some more Counting Classes are necessary for these Cheat jockeys too? lol...... 

Throw the thing away!! I say and avoid all this hassle. Was bad enough the Anthony Van Dyke horse breaking down in front of the world in the last Cup. Very sad.  Could you imagine the uproar and TOTAL CHAOS if they took a placing off a runner in a Group 1 for a whip offence ???? 

Phase Whip Out?  What about if a Jockey 'Breaks the Whip Rule" then as a Penalty, they have to ride 'X' amount of races afterwards without one?  then another offence , even more meetings , and so on ???  Gee , they would learn to count REAL QUICK!!!!!. lol. 

Kerrin McEvoy

Why are you laughing?

These Jockstraps are CHEATING....

...horses are having welts left courtesy of Cheating Opee and Willow....

Incredibly you 'think' the adrenaline has kicked in and they can't feel pain?

...but you simply ignore the Stats that tell us "@3L faster with the Whip"

So it's the noise is it?  Why not wack them between the ears so they get to hear more then?

Would you feel anything in that noggin of yours after the adrenaline's kicked in with a Hippo on your hip...whippin' your sweet hairy ass?

And of course nothing post chase after he's left a his welts

Just like AMAREALINHA....

yea na

[Thomass]

On 17/03/2021 at 3:56 PM, Chief Stipe said:

Then gets beaten by someone else who bends the rules?  Yeah right.  

Change the penalties if you want Jockey's to stay within the rules.  

Hell I drive 110 to 120 km on the open road.  When I clock a fine and some demerits I show a bit more restraint.

Bernie Sordinary and his very f in Ordinary Board did

They docked a few days off...added a fine....so the BIG OWNERS could pay that and keep them on in the BIG OWNER races...

...oh and then counted Sth Island Industry days in the suspension....

...where Cheating Opee never goes...excepting to gay Gorrre for the country music spectacular 

So good old Opes says "you f in beauty...thanks Sordinary"

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, Thomass said:

...horses are having welts left courtesy of Cheating Opee and Willow....

Incredibly you 'think' the adrenaline has kicked in and they can't feel pain?

...but you simply ignore the Stats that tell us "@3L faster with the Whip"

So it's the noise is it?  Why not wack them between the ears so they get to hear more then?

 

All the jockeys have the opportunity to leave welts on the horses , not just some that the Doubting Thomass doesn't like Willow, (and esp Opie) 

O of course the racehorses are driven by noise Mr DoubtingT. Do you Not know that ??????? in your eternal non-wisdom? Damien Oliver the 'master' of noise generation, you can hear him from the grandstand.

Bet a little bit of that whip use is up near the ears as you say too !! Brushing the blinker Cups with a swish for a bit more noise, Fright and flight ?    you betcha Doubter. !!!!  watch a little harder.

And AMARELINHA is still trying to work out how 'HARD done By' she was with this 'Confounded Cheat' on her back.  She is trying to get in touch with the 2nd horse NEEDLE AND THREAD to see if it is suffering the lasting effects she had to endure (so much more than herself) ???? 

what a joke, I was/am  laughing at the stupidity of it all. ALL the horses are being Cheated, lol.... Opie only ?? 

yea Na !   Isn't that what they say here lol..........

 

[Chief Stipe]

35 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

And AMARELINHA is still trying to work out how 'HARD done By' she was with this 'Confounded Cheat' on her back.  She is trying to get in touch with the 2nd horse NEEDLE AND THREAD to see if it is suffering the lasting effects she had to endure (so much more than herself) ???? 

 

You can imagine the Stipes report if Opie hadn't moved forward from the 800m and given her a couple of flicks at the 500m.  "Mr Bosson why didn't you improve your position with more vigour?"  "Sir because I'm not allowed to use the whip until the last 100m!"

[MarkyMark]

On 16/03/2021 at 2:37 PM, Thomass said:

Of course not..

...they probably went to school to eat their lunch...

...and Opee definitely comes under that category 

How can he mistake 5 for 10 and not know what CONSECUTIVE 4 strikes entails?

The ONLY explanation was that he BLATANTLY CHEATED on that horse...

...and you conveniently keep forgetting the STATS which state

"whipping forces horses to move @3L FASTER"

Cheating Opee couldn't help himself...4 times in a year...and BLATANTLY 

Of course Walker and Cheating Opee should have lost these placings

6 is an error with a suspension...7 a long suspension and fine...

8 is DEFINITELY requiring a DQ

Hope that helps

were is your evidence on the 3 length faster?

We have had Opie ride many times, not a cheat at all.  Overuse of the whip does not define him as a cheat.  You should be more carefull with your words.

Walkers situation is entirely different to Opie and not even in the same bracket, it is quite unfair on Opie to be compared in this way Thomas.

but who in NZ, what trainers or owners have said a whip makes a horse 3 length faster.

I have had some decent chats over the years with a few decent trainers, I had massive massive respect for the late Mr Mckee who would give time to anyone that wanted it, and have never heard any trainer imply something like this.

Yes it might help with piloting, focus, driving that last couple of hundred if your horse is on the lazy side, but not make them faster.

Its like your theory on blinkers.

please back it up with actual evidence, if you have it ill read it, but you have provided nothing of any substance.

i think it is wrong also that there is a thread discrediting opie on this sight without any reasonable justification for it

[Thomass]

On 19/03/2021 at 3:19 PM, MarkyMark said:

were is your evidence on the 3 length faster?

We have had Opie ride many times, not a cheat at all.  Overuse of the whip does not define him as a cheat.  You should be more carefull with your words.

Walkers situation is entirely different to Opie and not even in the same bracket, it is quite unfair on Opie to be compared in this way Thomas.

but who in NZ, what trainers or owners have said a whip makes a horse 3 length faster.

I have had some decent chats over the years with a few decent trainers, I had massive massive respect for the late Mr Mckee who would give time to anyone that wanted it, and have never heard any trainer imply something like this.

Yes it might help with piloting, focus, driving that last couple of hundred if your horse is on the lazy side, but not make them faster.

Its like your theory on blinkers.

please back it up with actual evidence, if you have it ill read it, but you have provided nothing of any substance.

i think it is wrong also that there is a thread discrediting opie on this sight without any reasonable justification for it

I'm HEARTILY sick of Theives on Wheels types coming on here...half cocked...

Ive provided ALL of the links on here wrt the research done cf Whip and non Whip races...

The evidence showed a 0.5 sec divide...rubber stamped by the Doyen of form analyst..Australia's Daniel O'Sullivan 

If you're too lazy to read Opee's entire cheating rap sheet...just read the Tauranga incident

Nearly as bad as AMAREALINHA who got thrashed with 23 strikes leaving welts...

...with 20 strikes...twice as much as allowed before the 100...and twice using the CHEATING consecutive strikes...once 4 consecutive strikes in a row...

He well and truely CHEATED the rules to win by a short margin..

Definitly a .5 sec faster if he hadn't used a Whip at all

Now don't get back to me in future unless you read an ENTIRE thread

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Thomass said:

Ive provided ALL of the links on here wrt the research done cf Whip and non Whip races...

The evidence showed a 0.5 sec divide...rubber stamped by the Doyen of form analyst..Australia's Daniel O'Sullivan 

 

His research is crap.  You have yet to address why the other "expert" on this subject that you quote "the Prof" provides research that shows the complete opposite.

1 hour ago, Thomass said:

He well and truely CHEATED the rules to win by a short margin..

Definitly a .5 sec faster if he hadn't used a Whip at all

 

You have ZERO evidence to support that assertion.

1 hour ago, Thomass said:

Now don't get back to me in future unless you read an ENTIRE thread

Now don't come back to US until you have some solid research and accurate analysis to support your arguments.

[Thomass]

Now I realise you 'think' you have to play the Dev's advocate...

But this is too serious to play around with...

Just take it as read...the EXPERTS have done the research comparing Whip and Non Whip races in the Northern Hem...

...and the EXPERT Ozzie Daniel O'Sullivan has agreed the diff is 0.5 secs or 3L

So don't start spinning the b/s on this...ok?

[Chief Stipe]

24 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Now I realise you 'think' you have to play the Dev's advocate...

But this is too serious to play around with...

Just take it as read...the EXPERTS have done the research comparing Whip and Non Whip races in the Northern Hem...

...and the EXPERT Ozzie Daniel O'Sullivan has agreed the diff is 0.5 secs or 3L

So don't start spinning the b/s on this...ok?

But the "evidence" doesn't stack up because it isn't adjusted for population or other factors.

It is BS.

Subsequently you cannot say that Amarelinha would not have won that race if she had been only whipped 19 or 10 or 6 or any other number of times.  

Even your own theories support that.  Maybe it was the penalty free strikes in the last 100m that gave her the advantage.

Who knows?  Certainly you don't.

[Gammalite]

4 hours ago, Thomass said:

I'm HEARTILY sick of Theives on Wheels types coming on here...half cocked..

i before e Thomass, You lost HEART long ago with your narrow minded attacks on everything racing. 

You gone in .....full cocked ???  

MarkyMark's post nothing to do with harness (BTW which is horse racing , AND has owners, punters, tab, winners, whip fines and suspensions) so much in common with thoroughbreds ?, but NOT in a narrow Thomass World.

Now I do agree , that whips are causing a problem, the horses do suffer welts as you demonstrated , and YES , throw the thing away and avoid all this fuss. (Horses that can't count will be feeling better !!!!)

BUT , why the Opie hate? To me as a Punter , I say the jockeys that aren't winning are Cheating !!!  They could do better, ( like Opie did) and achieve a better position ? just like those Melbourne Cup jockeys did ?

Risking (and getting) financial sanction to themselves to WIN for the owners and Punters. GOOD on em !!

The ones that sat back and didn't run a place in those races are the Cheats ?   Cheating the punters out of their chance of a collect on the race? , nor denying the owners a big race win? while the champions getting the most out of their horses and WIN.

Well done Opie , a true winner !!! 

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

i before e Thomass, You lost HEART long ago with your narrow minded attacks on everything racing. 

You gone in .....full cocked ???  

MarkyMark's post nothing to do with harness (BTW which is horse racing , AND has owners, punters, tab, winners, whip fines and suspensions) so much in common with thoroughbreds ?, but NOT in a narrow Thomass World.

Now I do agree , that whips are causing a problem, the horses do suffer welts as you demonstrated , and YES , throw the thing away and avoid all this fuss. (Horses that can't count will be feeling better !!!!)

BUT , why the Opie hate? To me as a Punter , I say the jockeys that aren't winning are Cheating !!!  They could do better, ( like Opie did) and achieve a better position ? just like those Melbourne Cup jockeys did ?

Risking (and getting) financial sanction to themselves to WIN for the owners and Punters. GOOD on em !!

The ones that sat back and didn't run a place in those races are the Cheats ?   Cheating the punters out of their chance of a collect on the race? , nor denying the owners a big race win? while the champions getting the most out of their horses and WIN.

Well done Opie , a true winner !!! 

All I'll add Gammalite is that the appearance of welts (I wouldn't give much credence to Thomas's selective photo editing) doesnt constitute pain experienced by a horse.  

[nomates]

36 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

All I'll add Gammalite is that the appearance of welts (I wouldn't give much credence to Thomas's selective photo editing) doesnt constitute pain experienced by a horse.  

You were obviously a good boy at school , i got the cane acros my arse on more than 1 occasion and it left welts on my arse and upper legs , i can assure they did constitute the pain experienced and a strong reminder as they tickled ( were sore ) for a couple of days after .

There was usually more than myself in trouble so the welts were worn as a badge of honour amongst those that were on the recieving end . 

I wonder why caning has been stopped .

[Chief Stipe]

31 minutes ago, nomates said:

You were obviously a good boy at school , i got the cane acros my arse on more than 1 occasion and it left welts on my arse and upper legs , i can assure they did constitute the pain experienced and a strong reminder as they tickled ( were sore ) for a couple of days after .

There was usually more than myself in trouble so the welts were worn as a badge of honour amongst those that were on the recieving end . 

I wonder why caning has been stopped .

If you had a soft arse and had just finished your lunch then yeah a cane across the backside hurt.

If you had just run 2000m and given it your all and pumped on adrenaline then your lungs and heart would take precedence over any welts on your arse.

When you cooled down your muscles and joints with all the lactic acid and wear and tear would still surpass a few welts on your arse.

[nomates]

18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

If you had a soft arse and had just finished your lunch then yeah a cane across the backside hurt.

 

Never looked at it that scientifically .

So if they don't feel it why use it , what's the point .

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, nomates said:

Never looked at it that scientifically .

So if they don't feel it why use it , what's the point .

Pavlov's Dog's.  It is the action not the pain. 

[nomates]

So jockey's should just carry a whip and wave it so it simulates a strike , win , win for all sides then .

What about horses wearing blinkers , they can't see the action .

[Gammalite]

6 minutes ago, nomates said:

Never looked at it that scientifically .

So if they don't feel it why use it , what's the point .

Well it helps gain a reaction that keeps you in the race that little bit more , than without.

There has been great debate about 'margins' achieved , but surely this is each horse on an individual basis thing.

There is great debate about pain suffered . as Chief was saying , they are compromised in other ways a lot more.

A/ I'm all for Horse Welfare , so take it away if a problem, but is subjective.

also B/ that avoids this Jockey Count strike Debacle. (discussed through this thread) 

AND C/ could Help public perception too, as isn't the Last 100m Actually when everyone is watching the race the most or closest ???

Just when the jocks are going Hell for Leather too. Not sure the general public will be going away thinking ,"That was ok for the horses!!, as they only got 5 strikes , instead of 10. (OR whatever the threshold is these days)

Throw it away altogeather, saves any of A , B or C being a factor at all.

 

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, nomates said:

So jockey's should just carry a whip and wave it so it simulates a strike , win , win for all sides then .

What about horses wearing blinkers , they can't see the action .

No they still feel something when the whip touches but not extreme pain.  Hell their lungs, heart and brains are experiencing that as does any athlete.

Blinkers - my opinion on Blinkers is they are used initially to overcome a behavioural issue.  Sometimes that is a perceived behavioural issue.  For example I don't believe that Melody Belle would perform any less without them BUT for the fact there is now a Pavolv Dog scenario going on.  You put them on and she goes shit today is race day!

My best horse was always asleep in the stall until you put a saddle on her back.  Then she went from being a friendly pony to being a full on racehorse.

The trainer would throw the saddle over her then walk back.  She'd shake her head and then stretch every limb of her body.  Then he'd go back and finish putting the saddle on.

 

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Well it helps gain a reaction that keeps you in the race that little bit more , than without.

There has been great debate about 'margins' achieved , but surely this is each horse on an individual basis thing.

There is great debate about pain suffered . as Chief was saying , they are compromised in other ways a lot more.

A/ I'm all for Horse Welfare , so take it away if a problem, but is subjective.

also B/ that avoids this Jockey Count strike Debacle. (discussed through this thread) 

AND C/ could Help public perception too, as isn't the Last 100m Actually when everyone is watching the race the most or closest ???

Just when the jocks are going Hell for Leather too. Not sure the general public will be going away thinking ,"That was ok for the horses!!, as they only got 5 strikes , instead of 10. (OR whatever the threshold is these days)

Throw it away altogeather, saves any of A , B or C being a factor at all.

 

Why make an issue out of it?  You talk about the "public making an issue of it" but who are the "public"?  It isn't a very big group.

It isn't an issue unless racing makes it an issue.

FFS wake up these anti people don't want racing full stop.

I wish some of these horses could talk and be interviewed.  They love racing!  It is in their DNA.

[Gammalite]

15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why make an issue out of it?  You talk about the "public making an issue of it" but who are the "public"?  It isn't a very big group.

It isn't an issue unless racing makes it an issue.

FFS wake up these anti people don't want racing full stop.

I wish some of these horses could talk and be interviewed.  They love racing!  It is in their DNA.

Public do attend the races, that aren't involved directly with horses. My children for example (20 somethings) , I have difficulty telling them the horses are Fine. It only looks like a whipping. But they don't approve still.

A whip used 5 times is the same as 10 times to them (and to horse)

Some people don't want car racing either. (emmissions in environment  ,etc) they make tiny changes . 

My Children didn't say stop racing. just change one of the aspects as discussed. I say horses generally love to run as you said, (some don't hahahaha) , and I know it is very hard to WIN a race. 

Therefore Any Aid is good that helps, the whip being a traditional one (just like Blinkers Chief) but it is causing a lot of issues. Jockeys being called Cheats ? laughable . but its only dumb ass Thom ass. I never Once thought I was actually hurting a horse in a race. just prompting it to react and hang tough ! just like an administrator !!!

I think a jockey/ driver would find it Very difficult without a whip. The 'issues' are mounting though, and when the time comes, and a horse is disqualified in a feature (say Opie the other day). Racing will suffer. punters will back other sports .