Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Mikie you are working from the premise that the race was dodgie and someone cleaned up on Betfair. I'm viewing the race based on the circumstances as they evolved in the race i.e. no preconceived view or bias. In my opinion Colt 31 could have tried harder to keep the lead from the draw. What then followed was reacting to evolving circumstances. OK, so now why don't you look at the race subjectively and with the benefit of hindsight and take cognisance of the Betfair money Tell me what possessed someone(s) to wake up on Saturday moring and lay a horse that had been in the quinella 21 times in a row or something like that to lose Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What material impact did that have on the race? Zip, zilch, nada. Really? How would King Of The Stars have got outside COLT? Are you saying he would have gone 4 wide to get around Lilac Flash? FFS Chief, you're being deliberately thick Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 49 minutes ago, Mikie said: Is Gammalite really Brodie? Darren Weeks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, Mikie said: Tell me what possessed someone(s) to wake up on Saturday moring and lay a horse that had been in the quinella 21 times in a row or something like that to lose Was it one bet? To win how much? Perhaps the price was value and the punter thought the ace draw was a disadvantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mikie said: Really? How would King Of The Stars have got outside COLT? Are you saying he would have gone 4 wide to get around Lilac Flash? FFS Chief, you're being deliberately thick Mikie As I said - what material difference did it make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harewood Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, Mikie said: Nothing strange about Lilac Flash going 4 wide for no reason Harewood? Lost her compass? Mikie No not at all. Was at the rear and took off 3 wide not 4 to try and get up to the favoued parked position. This flushed out Colt who then went to the parked position. Lilca Flash could not then get there so pulled back as you would do rather than take the fav on. As it ws L Flash finnished on strongly from the rear so you would say had to be unluckly that it could not have got closer when it wanted to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Was it one bet? To win how much? Perhaps the price was value and the punter thought the ace draw was a disadvantage. I just assumed you knew how Betfair works It was multiple people who all laid COLT to lose at about his starting price, since his starting price hardly deviated from his opening price Regardless of whether it was 1 person or 100,000 people, it is odd that a near champion gets laid for more than any other horse on the night I'm told by 25% morse than any other horse Ain't that odd? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Harewood said: No not at all. Was at the rear and took off 3 wide not 4 to try and get up to the favoued parked position. This flushed out Colt who then went to the parked position. Lilca Flash could not then get there so pulled back as you would do rather than take the fav on. As it ws L Flash finnished on strongly from the rear so you would say had to be unluckly that it could not have got closer when it wanted to. Bujt why did she pull 4 wide and let the stablemate through before being restrained to the rear? Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: As I said - what material difference did it make? The material difference is that COLT would not have a horse outside it forcing him to run a 28 second quarter What's so hard to see about that? Why did Lilac Flash move 4 wide to let her stablemate through? Any ideas? A sunday stroll? Better going? Track bias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Mikie you are working from the premise that the race was dodgie and someone cleaned up on Betfair. I'm viewing the race based on the circumstances as they evolved in the race i.e. no preconceived view or bias. In my opinion Colt 31 could have tried harder to keep the lead from the draw. What then followed was reacting to evolving circumstances. No Chief, you are wrong again I was not working on the premise was dodgy because of Betfair I didn't have any idea about the Betfair amounts until after I saw the race and thought this is unbelievable After I thought that I did my research into who was married to who, who trains who, and then I looked into the Betfair turnover I think it would have been about Tuesday that I found the Betfair amounts Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harewood Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Mikie said: Bujt why did she pull 4 wide and let the stablemate through before being restrained to the rear? Mikie That is your view of it. I saw it as when she restrained LF King OS came out underneath her any maybe thought the parked was up for the taking as Colt had just sprinted to get there. As I have said it was not a good move in hindsight. This happennes all the times in Aus racing, sometimes they get there sometimes they dont. Thats what makes Aussie racing a lot more exciting than NZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 10 hours ago, Mikie said: I just assumed you knew how Betfair works It was multiple people who all laid COLT to lose at about his starting price, since his starting price hardly deviated from his opening price Regardless of whether it was 1 person or 100,000 people, it is odd that a near champion gets laid for more than any other horse on the night I'm told by 25% morse than any other horse Ain't that odd? Mike Geez and you have a go at Brodie for being arrogant! Yes I know how Betfair works. So multiple people laid Colt 31. As I said maybe they thought the price was good value and the number 1 draw was tricky. Again you are matching data after the fact to support your view that the race was fun dodgy. As for you persisting with the 28 second quarter - why didn't the driver of Colt 31 hand up? I agree with Harewood you see a lot of that type of driving from OZ drivers. You only have to compare Natalie with Mark. Kiwi drivers tend to sit and wait and wait and wait and wait.....oops it's over. Colt 31 was never going to sit in the one:one for long. It would have had to have tried for the lead at some stage or sit parked. Either way it lost its advantage at the start and why the driver was so aggressive at restraining it from the ace draw I have no idea. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 12 hours ago, Harewood said: That is your view of it. I saw it as when she restrained LF King OS came out underneath her any maybe thought the parked was up for the taking as Colt had just sprinted to get there. As I have said it was not a good move in hindsight. This happennes all the times in Aus racing, sometimes they get there sometimes they dont. Thats what makes Aussie racing a lot more exciting than NZ How can a horse came out under her when he’s behind her unless she moves out first? Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Geez and you have a go at Brodie for being arrogant! Yes I know how Betfair works. So multiple people laid Colt 31. As I said maybe they thought the price was good value and the number 1 draw was tricky. Again you are matching data after the fact to support your view that the race was fun dodgy. As for you persisting with the 28 second quarter - why didn't the driver of Colt 31 hand up? I agree with Harewood you see a lot of that type of driving from OZ drivers. You only have to compare Natalie with Mark. Kiwi drivers tend to sit and wait and wait and wait and wait.....oops it's over. Colt 31 was never going to sit in the one:one for long. It would have had to have tried for the lead at some stage or sit parked. Either way it lost its advantage at the start and why the driver was so aggressive at restraining it from the ace draw I have no idea. Hand up the death to a horse going no good (your words)? Hand up to a horse whose record indicates it would fall back in his lap? Or more likely Gand up to s horse whose stablemate, yet another, would whiz around to put COLT 3 back as LF attempted to do? Its not arrogant to assume you have no idea what you are talking about Chief Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Mikie said: Hand up the death to a horse going no good (your words)? Hand up to a horse whose record indicates it would fall back in his lap? Or more likely Gand up to s horse whose stablemate, yet another, would whiz around to put COLT 3 back as LF attempted to do? Its not arrogant to assume you have no idea what you are talking about Chief Mikie Well Mikie I realise you are the expert in race driving so it is reassuring to see you agreeing with me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 According to the Chief the unusually large amount wagered on Betfair on COLT to get beaten is me matching data after the fact to support my theory that the race was dodgy If it looks like a duck, it walks like a duck, snd it quacks, it’s probably a farken duck The Betfair wagering is but another indication, the driving in the race doesn’t stack up Why does a leading reins man get charged with unacceptable or incompetent driving? Just on a whim? Sorry Chief, I’m not one of those that subscribe to the theory that you have to have driven in a race to be able to spot a rort, but you have no idea Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Well Mikie I realise you are the expert in race driving so it is reassuring to see you agreeing with me. If you are now saying you have no idea, then yes I agree with you I think it’s more petulance on your part, you have no idea about the race, and you are just taking the opposite view to me because I upset Brodie Mikie Edited December 21, 2020 by Mikie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, Mikie said: If you are now saying you have no idea, then yes I agree with you I think it’s more petulance on your part, you have no idea about the race, and you are just taking the opposite view to me because I upset Brodie Mikie Bullshit Mikie. The fact is I wasn't bothered about the post. A bit like Harewood it seems. Then Gammalite mentioned he wasn't getting any support for his view so I analysed the race - watched it about five times and came to a similar conclusion to him. Although his initial post was about congratulating the Kiwi's on winning the race! So now I'm supporting Gammalite, Brodie and Harewood? Just because I disagreed with your assessment of the race? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 39 minutes ago, Mikie said: According to the Chief the unusually large amount wagered on Betfair on COLT to get beaten is me matching data after the fact to support my theory that the race was dodgy No you went looking for data to prove something - that's called predetermined bias. Is 25% more layed against a hot favourite on the night that far out of whack? 39 minutes ago, Mikie said: Why does a leading reins man get charged with unacceptable or incompetent driving? Just on a whim? Sorry Chief, I’m not one of those that subscribe to the theory that you have to have driven in a race to be able to spot a rort, but you have no idea Fine I have no idea - neither does Harewood or Gammalite. You are the expert Mikie. But the drive by Grant Dixon wasn't that good either was it? But you don't mention any of that. Why wasn't Dixon questioned about his movement of the markers when not clear soon after the start? Why didn't Dixon try harder to keep the lead? I think he made a split decision to bail out - heavily restrained his horse - checked those behind him on the markers and then pulled off to be one out to take advantage of the gap forcefully created. The following from the Stewards report is when Dixon moved out in front of Lilac Flash to go get parked. Grant Dixon (Colt Thirty One) pleaded guilty to a charge under AHR rule 163 (1)(b)(ii) for moving Colt Thirty One from its one wide line at the 1800 metres which hindered the forward progress of Lilac Flash NZ. A fine of $200 was imposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 13 hours ago, Mikie said: Bujt why did she pull 4 wide and let the stablemate through before being restrained to the rear? Mikie Hi Mikie, I wasn't gunna post on this again as was trying to Post something nice for NZ and it didn't work. and now the shit has hit the fan it seems. with you guys. and I feel guilty. YOU ARE CORRECT in something happened the Stipes didn't like SADLY (You Should Be A Stipe !!) and Pete was suspended. I didn't even notice ANY of this personally (wouldn't of posted to start contraversy otherwise ), and so am saying I don't agree with the stipes nor your assessment of the race. I spoke to Grant to see "What's going on?" Pete got suspended? Grant says at the mile peg he came out sharply of the 1 out 1 back trail contacting Lilac and putting it out 4 wide , thus leaving Petes Horse on Colts back. It FOLLOWED through behind colt inside Lilac . Lilac instantly pulled back to the rear as no chance after. Pete did the same 300m later. WHat's the big Deal ????? not cheats , just unlucky. Grant says he was lucky to get only $200 fine , instead of the 3 weeks suspension for 'Skittling" those 2 horses and putting them out of the race. He says he left them out to Dry , but that's racing ??? He Was not attacked at all . He tried to attack the leader from the 300m and came up head and a bit short. I hope that helps your Assessment !! And Chantel sitting behind the leader being a Cheat as Mikie accuses? , well that just made us Laugh lol........ are you sure you drove races Mikie ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gammalite said: and now the shit has hit the fan it seems. with you guys. and I feel guilty. Gammalite - don't worry about it - I'm not upset by any stretch. The only thing that annoys me at the moment is the state of the industry. Also it bugs me when people are quick to play "cut the tall poppy" which we see often with the All Stars. The reality is that the All Stars in NZ run a top class operation under extreme scrutiny and have put in many a hard yard. In my opinion those chasing are simply not up to speed. That has been to the detriment of the industry but you can't blame those who have been successful. I would rather point the finger at the 9 to 5 administrators and slack officials. For example it defies belief that Lamb can continue to have two conflicting roles in the industry and be useless at both of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Grant says at the mile peg he came out sharply of the 1 out 1 back trail contacting Lilac and putting it out 4 wide , thus leaving Petes Horse on Colts back. It FOLLOWED through behind colt inside Lilac . Lilac instantly pulled back to the rear as no chance after. Pete did the same 300m later. WHat's the big Deal ????? not cheats , just unlucky. Yep that's how I saw it. 10 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Grant says he was lucky to get only $200 fine , instead of the 3 weeks suspension for 'Skittling" those 2 horses and putting them out of the race. He says he left them out to Dry , but that's racing ??? Agreed and I think he should have got asked a couple of questions regarding the first 2-300m. That didn't look all that tidy to me. Certainly the Ozzie's drive with a lot more aggression than their Kiwi counterparts - always have as your non-de-plume "Gammalite" always reminds me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted December 21, 2020 Author Share Posted December 21, 2020 39 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Yep that's how I saw it. Agreed and I think he should have got asked a couple of questions regarding the first 2-300m. That didn't look all that tidy to me. Certainly the Ozzie's drive with a lot more aggression than their Kiwi counterparts - always have as your non-de-plume "Gammalite" always reminds me! The start looked awful chief , mainly because you VERY very rarely see a horse throw away the huge advantage in QLD 'shortcourse' racing , and 'Leave the Fence' so to speak. This race in question was a longer journey than the norm , and this was Big striding COLT THIRTY ONE too. probably wins the race if he drew 2 instead of 1 . but that's life ! and Mikie (like me too) would of been delighted. AGGRESSION ! yeah , get the readers to google 1983 Interdominion Final to see GAMMALITE aggression , knocking down El Regale (drew 1 on second row) to get in behind Popular Alm. Oh no! the vision just misses that but you can see EL REGALE (poor old John Noble) galloping and settling 4 back the fence. No trail today John !! crazy times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 38 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: No you went looking for data to prove something - that's called predetermined bias. Is 25% more layed against a hot favourite on the night that far out of whack? Fine I have no idea - neither does Harewood or Gammalite. You are the expert Mikie. But the drive by Grant Dixon wasn't that good either was it? But you don't mention any of that. Why wasn't Dixon questioned about his movement of the markers when not clear soon after the start? Why didn't Dixon try harder to keep the lead? I think he made a split decision to bail out - heavily restrained his horse - checked those behind him on the markers and then pulled off to be one out to take advantage of the gap forcefully created. The following from the Stewards report is when Dixon moved out in front of Lilac Flash to go get parked. Grant Dixon (Colt Thirty One) pleaded guilty to a charge under AHR rule 163 (1)(b)(ii) for moving Colt Thirty One from its one wide line at the 1800 metres which hindered the forward progress of Lilac Flash NZ. A fine of $200 was imposed. Yes Chief, 25% more than any other horse on the night is far out of whack Nearly $100,000 on a hot favourite is way out of whack too By asking you are admitting you had no idea, did you? The drive by Grant Dixon was fine given the racing style of it's previous 20 starts Dixon didn't go out because I'm guessing he knew that he would have wave after wave of stablemates attacking him He drove brilliantly to get off the rail quickly, he didn't check anyone behind him, if he did why wasn't he fined for that too? He came out from the 1x1 to get the death and was fined $200, so what? Using your logic that he is sinful because he got a $200 fine where does that put you with the other Driver's 3 weeks? Still waiting for your answer as to why Lilac Flash went 4 wide for no reason? She wasn't forced out by King Of The Stars, he was still behind her when she went AWOL What reason do you have for KOTS pulling out from what would have been the 1 out, 2 back to go 3 wide against One Change and COLT? You seem to be an expert on tracks, opn AWT's, and now on driving in harness races Fark, you are an expert on everything, it's hard to believe someone is so knowledgable about everything I'm not just sticking up for COLT, he was the benefit of team driving in the same race last year I think (Ohoka Punter setting it up for him if I remember rightly) Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted December 21, 2020 Share Posted December 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: Hi Mikie, I wasn't gunna post on this again as was trying to Post something nice for NZ and it didn't work. and now the shit has hit the fan it seems. with you guys. and I feel guilty. YOU ARE CORRECT in something happened the Stipes didn't like SADLY (You Should Be A Stipe !!) and Pete was suspended. I didn't even notice ANY of this personally (wouldn't of posted to start contraversy otherwise ), and so am saying I don't agree with the stipes nor your assessment of the race. I spoke to Grant to see "What's going on?" Pete got suspended? Grant says at the mile peg he came out sharply of the 1 out 1 back trail contacting Lilac and putting it out 4 wide , thus leaving Petes Horse on Colts back. It FOLLOWED through behind colt inside Lilac . Lilac instantly pulled back to the rear as no chance after. Pete did the same 300m later. WHat's the big Deal ????? not cheats , just unlucky. Grant says he was lucky to get only $200 fine , instead of the 3 weeks suspension for 'Skittling" those 2 horses and putting them out of the race. He says he left them out to Dry , but that's racing ??? He Was not attacked at all . He tried to attack the leader from the 300m and came up head and a bit short. I hope that helps your Assessment !! And Chantel sitting behind the leader being a Cheat as Mikie accuses? , well that just made us Laugh lol........ are you sure you drove races Mikie ?? What a nice person Grant must be A forgiving type Yes I'm quite sure I did Gammalite Did you? Mikie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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