Covid-19 - Yearling Sales

[Brodie]

12 minutes ago, Richie said:

The Christchurch yearling sales have been postponed for a week.

Now 22nd to 24th February

Why?

Not bloody deadly disease that has killed no one in NZ that was healthy?

Enough is enough , this is just over the top once again!

Time NZ woke up to the fact that we are dictated to by someone that has got no idea, but wants total control!

[Rangatira]

2 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Why?

Not bloody deadly disease that has killed no one in NZ that was healthy?

Enough is enough , this is just over the top once again!

Time NZ woke up to the fact that we are dictated to by someone that has got no idea, but wants total control!

 

[Brodie]

Ranga, seriously why is there a need to bring in bloody levels that once again going to affect peoples livelihoods more than a mild virus.

This so called deadly virus that most peoplewho test positive have no symptoms whatsoever is not going to go away, and she jjst wants to get up there and blah blah blah!

This useless lot are great  at destroying business but anything that is good for business, they have no idea about!

Ardern and her useless associates still get paid regardless and yet she has the say on when business can operate!

The Dickheads that voted for Labour need to wake up to the poor decision they made, based on Covid19 alone, as they have achieved nothing else except closing the country down!

Bloody brilliant!

[whiplash smile]

5 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Ranga, seriously why is there a need to bring in bloody levels that once again going to affect peoples livelihoods more than a mild virus.

This so called deadly virus that most people who test positive have no symptoms whatsoever is not going to go away, and she jjst wants to get up there and blah blah blah!

This useless lot are great  at destroying business but anything that is good for business, they have no idea about!

Ardern and her useless associates still get paid regardless and yet she has the say on when business can operate!

The Dickheads that voted for Labour need to wake up to the poor decision they made, based on Covid19 alone, as they have achieved nothing else except closing the country down!

Bloody brilliant!

And what would National do?   get pissed and start shagging each other in the closets at the beehive?

She has been praised for her actions by other global leaders who have had to sustain both loss of business and loss of lives, Im not sure you realise this Brodie but Jacinda didnt invent covid 19 just to be a control freak and piss you off!

You can wait a week for your next champion yearling cant you?   if not $10k (just a bet 4 you) would probably buy spitty!

[whiplash smile]

11 minutes ago, Brodie said:

 

The Dickheads that voted for Labour need to wake up 

you mean the majority of NZ?  Can we vote for you to be King `King Brodster`, nice ring to it and nice name for Trevor Caseys next trotting star.

[Chief Stipe]

Can anyone explain why the South Island and the Chatham Islands have to be put into Level 2?

 

[Brodie]

21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Can anyone explain why the South Island and the Chatham Islands have to be put into Level 2?

 

Thats my point Chief.

We just can not keep locking country down due to someone testing  positive with no symptoms!

There are approx 800 people die each and every week in NZ and yet 25 people of old age die with a virus and people run scared?

If you are worried stay at home but stop the control.

Suicides are far worse than this virus is ever going to kill.

Totally out of her league.

[Basil]

50 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Thats my point Chief.

We just can not keep locking country down due to someone testing  positive with no symptoms!

There are approx 800 people die each and every week in NZ and yet 25 people of old age die with a virus and people run scared?

If you are worried stay at home but stop the control.

Suicides are far worse than this virus is ever going to kill.

Totally out of her league.

OMG (and I feel slightly queasy just saying this), I agree with Brodie.😄

The one bit I don't agree with though is blaming Ardern. Lightweight though she may be, in this she is, sadly, just reflecting the 'will of the sheep people'. Those of us who think repeated lockdowns are a cure worse than the disease are very much in the minority.

[hunterthepunter]

2 minutes ago, Basil said:

OMG (and I feel slightly queasy just saying this), I agree with Brodie.😄

The one bit I don't agree with though is blaming Ardern. Lightweight though she may be, in this she is, sadly, just reflecting the 'will of the sheep people'. Those of us who think repeated lockdowns are a cure worse than the disease are very much in the minority.

you will just have to jump back in the pool lol

[hunterthepunter]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Can anyone explain why the South Island and the Chatham Islands have to be put into Level 2?

 

to many blue cod in the Chathams

[Brodie]

20 minutes ago, Basil said:

OMG (and I feel slightly queasy just saying this), I agree with Brodie.😄

The one bit I don't agree with though is blaming Ardern. Lightweight though she may be, in this she is, sadly, just reflecting the 'will of the sheep people'. Those of us who think repeated lockdowns are a cure worse than the disease are very much in the minority.

Basil, what this Covid19 thing has shown to me is just t how easily controlled people can be!!!

We had weeks of Ardern and Bloomfield wanking on about being kind, washing hands, social bloody distancing etc.

Many months after the South Island has had not a single case in the community, we still have so many Dickheads scanning barcodes so they can be tracked doWn!

These people clearly want to be controlled!

How they have survived in society up until now is a bit mystifying?

FFS this Covid 19, socalled deadly virus that is now continuing to mutate, is a very mild virus and we will have a lot worse come thru in The years ahead!

The common flu virus that we get every year  kills hundreds, so why havent we locked down before now?

Of course this is a very divisive subject and most people will have an opinion, however if you are scared, then just stay at home and let the sane people live their life!!!

2 of the socalled positive tests went to the Taranaki and yet Taranaki is only Level 2 like the rest of the Country???

I reiterate, the Government is the most incompetent NZ has ever had to endure without doubt!!!

[Chief Stipe]

It is extremely frustrating to see this BS continuing.  Even if no interventions of any kind were implemented and the virus was allowed to circulate then herd immunity would have been achieved with no more than 5,000 deaths.  NOT the 80,000 the moronic NZ epidemiologists have banged on about.  

Now that 5,000 is at the high end.  We all know now that those that succumb to the virus are the aged and with co-morbidities.  92% of those who have died in Sweden are over the age of 75.  75% over the age of 82!  5% of Sweden's population is over the age of 80. i.e. 550,000.  So 9,000 out of 550,000 died from Covid-19.  

Sweden has an excess mortality rate of 10-15% for 2020.  So 90,000 people die annually and this has risen to 100,000.  The excess mortality in 2020 has a significant component of displaced mortality from 2019.  In 2019 the annual mortality was down significantly due to a mild influenza season.  If you look back over the last 20 years then the mortality rate in Sweden is no different to any other year!  THAT IS A FACT!

So taking overseas data the likely death toll from those dying WITH Covid-19 NZ would have seen around 3,000 deaths predominantly the aged and those with significant comorbidities.   Reality is they were going to die anyway.  Harsh but true.

However what have we done?  Spent $100 billion to prevent 3,000 deaths.  That is THIRTY THREE MILLION per person given another few years of life!!!!

Meanwhile - businesses have gone bust (more to come you watch this space), our school children have had their education considerably disrupted, cancer's and other diseases have gone undiagnosed or untreated and so on and so on.

 

[eljay]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Can anyone explain why the South Island and the Chatham Islands have to be put into Level 2?

 

And (conversely) why is New Plymouth the same as the rest of the country while Auckland level 3.       These people went there but not to Orewa!

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, eljay said:

And (conversely) why is New Plymouth the same as the rest of the country while Auckland level 3.       These people went there but not to Orewa!

Because it is all daft.  My cynical analysis would say that they have done a risk analysis and the reality is that South Auckland has a much higher risk profile than New Plymouth.

The only reason the South Island and the Chathams are at Level 2 is because we have to share the kindness (pain) overall the 5 million.  That's how socialism works doesn't it?!

[whiplash smile]

38 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It is extremely frustrating to see this BS continuing.  Even if no interventions of any kind were implemented and the virus was allowed to circulate then herd immunity would have been achieved with no more than 5,000 deaths.  NOT the 80,000 the moronic NZ epidemiologists have banged on about.  

Now that 5,000 is at the high end.  We all know now that those that succumb to the virus are the aged and with co-morbidities.  92% of those who have died in Sweden are over the age of 75.  75% over the age of 82!  5% of Sweden's population is over the age of 80. i.e. 550,000.  So 9,000 out of 550,000 died from Covid-19.  

Sweden has an excess mortality rate of 10-15% for 2020.  So 90,000 people die annually and this has risen to 100,000.  The excess mortality in 2020 has a significant component of displaced mortality from 2019.  In 2019 the annual mortality was down significantly due to a mild influenza season.  If you look back over the last 20 years then the mortality rate in Sweden is no different to any other year!  THAT IS A FACT!

So taking overseas data the likely death toll from those dying WITH Covid-19 NZ would have seen around 3,000 deaths predominantly the aged and those with significant comorbidities.   Reality is they were going to die anyway.  Harsh but true.

However what have we done?  Spent $100 billion to prevent 3,000 deaths.  That is THIRTY THREE MILLION per person given another few years of life!!!!

Meanwhile - businesses have gone bust (more to come you watch this space), our school children have had their education considerably disrupted, cancer's and other diseases have gone undiagnosed or untreated and so on and so on.

 

yet other countries take the same approach,  If the virus mutates to become deadly to younger people, a possibility for south american countries who wont be vaccinated for years this kind of precaution to control and contain will be a godsend.

 

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, whiplash smile said:

yet other countries take the same approach,  If the virus mutates to become deadly to younger people, a possibility for south american countries who wont be vaccinated for years this kind of precaution to control and contain will be a godsend.

There is absolutely NO evidence to support the assertion that virus will mutate and become deadly to younger people.  However the possibility that you raise adds further weight to having allowed the initial apparently "milder" virus to circulate throughout the community while protecting the vulnerable.  Arguably it is Government actions that has put more selection pressure on the virus that would have occurred.  Over 99% of the population would have had either an asymptomatic infection or at worst a mild one.

Hence the original Global Pandemic plans were the exactly the same as Sweden's however politics took over and they were abandoned.  Those plans were developed based on worse scenarios than Covid-19.  They were based on short, medium and long term implications.

 

[whiplash smile]

How did the variants come about then?  One individuals genes can change it, one epidemiologists opinion is viruses only mutate when they are given time and freedom to do so.

 

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

  Even if no interventions of any kind were implemented and the virus was allowed to circulate then herd immunity would have been achieved with no more than 5,000 deaths.  NOT the 80,000 the moronic NZ epidemiologists have banged on about.  

A government Cannot just 'Let Citizens die' if there is some way to prevent it. 

NZ and Australia are Admired World-wide at the moment for the measures put in place that have led to VERY FEW deaths. and yet you argue against these measures ? 

Keeping people in their homes has saved hundreds of lives ?  you can't sacrifice them to build up community immunity. May be Brodie and yourself can send your mum's down the shops first to start the circulation?

I understand the community impact , and economic impact that Brodie and others mentioned (even MELBOURNE is in 5 day mini-lockdown at this second again ,so stadiums empty at the Oz open tennis for a few days as well as all businesses shut AGAIN) so very frustrating.  But ALL LIVES MATTER.

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, whiplash smile said:

How did the variants come about then?  One individuals genes can change it, one epidemiologists opinion is viruses only mutate when they are given time and freedom to do so.

What's your point?  The virus evolves.  It isn't human genes that change it - it is the process of RNA replication.  With thousands to millions of replications happening in an infected person the probability of replication errors occuring is great.  Covid-19 is a coronavirus - unless this particular strain SARS-COV-2 dies out of its own accord then it will continue to circulate.

So your epidemiologist opinion/theory is basic.  A mutation can occur at anytime however if the original virus was milder than one's circulating now then it would have been wiser to have allowed it to have circulated as quickly as possible than try and intervene and only prolong the pandemic's life.

NZ now has a completely Covid-19 naive population the UK and Sweden are close to herd immunity - it doesn't matter what the virus does now.  But for NZ?  Well we are relying on vaccines still being effective against new variants.  We should have taken the pain early - we still have the pain to come unless we want to live in Fortress NZ for the rest of our lives.

[whiplash smile]

so you know more than this epidemiologist do you?  Leaders of other countries were criticized for not acting early enough, ours is criticized for acting too early,

If business before death of human lives is your preference, then so be it, For some, people are more important money. 

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

A government Cannot just 'Let Citizens die' if there is some way to prevent it. 

Rubbish - Government's make those decisions every day.  Ban road transport - that will stop road deaths.  

Government's are tasked with making decisions based on valuing the best OVERALL outcomes.  

10 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

NZ and Australia are Admired World-wide at the moment for the measures put in place that have led to VERY FEW deaths. and yet you argue against these measures ? 

Yes.  They have only deferred the inevitable deaths that will occur from Covid-19 AND added more in the longer term.  Those longer term deaths will be the result of business failure, increased poverty, increase mental illness, undiagnosed and untreated disease.

If you want to look at the folly of Lockdowns compare the UK and Sweden.  Sweden has out performed the UK.

What really makes me angry is the loudest proponents of restrictions and lockdowns are scared over 65's that have led a good life and have the associated illnesses that go with it.  They have no compassion for those that have really been affected - the young and the poor.  The young especially who have nearly zero chance of dying or getting seriously ill from Covid-19 and, as science as proven, less propensity to spread the virus than any other demographic.

18 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Keeping people in their homes has saved hundreds of lives ?  you can't sacrifice them to build up community immunity. May be Brodie and yourself can send your mum's down the shops first to start the circulation?

Saved hundreds of lives?  Who?  When over 99% of the population don't die from Covid-19 and those under 65 have  a far greater chance of dying from the flu!  If my mum was alive (ironically she died of influenza complications after decades of smoking and alcohol abuse) I'd tell her to stay at home (which most elderly do anyway) and I'd deliver the groceries to her door.  If she moaned I'd say did she want her granddaughter to have a good uninterrupted education, like she had, or not?

22 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

I understand the community impact , and economic impact that Brodie and others mentioned (even MELBOURNE is in 5 day mini-lockdown at this second again ,so stadiums empty at the Oz open tennis for a few days as well as all businesses shut AGAIN) so very frustrating.  But ALL LIVES MATTER.

Yes ALL LIVES MATTER but some more than others.  In New Zealand over half of the people that died were in a dementia rest home in late stage dementia.  They only had months to live and they would have died in a normal year from a cold or influenza or any other infection that causes pneumonia.  A friend of mine was recovering from cancer treatment and needed further treatment.  He couldn't get that treatment during lockdown - aged in his late 40's, self employed and with two early teenage children.  What value his life?

[Gammalite]

9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

27 minutes ago, whiplash smile said:

 

What's your point?  The virus evolves.  It isn't human genes that change it - it is the process of RNA replication.  With thousands to millions of replications happening in an infected person the probability of replication errors occuring is great.  Covid-19 is a coronavirus - unless this particular strain SARS-COV-2 dies out of its own accord then it will continue to circulate.

You are right Chief in that virus evolves in different ways, there was swine flu, bird flu, Spanish flu that killed 50,000,000 worldwide from estimated 500,000,000 that contracted it , 100 years ago.

They'll keep turning up Unfortunately, and yes there is a 'Flu season' every year, so nothing new. Alas Whiplash is correct in that a very nasty one WILL EVENTUATE again at some stage, that does kill Young People as well as the sick and elderly...   at least our 'Horrid government's' did something to prepare the nation for that event a little, and didn't sit back like UK and watch so many die with this current outbreak.

Can't see why you Can't have Fortress NZ ? and Fortress Australia ? until globe settles in down year or 2. we could look after each other (and our pacific Island cousins/ neighbours just fine IMO.