Jnr drivers - How good

[Karrots]

Thought this was worth a mention,

The Jnr drive this week in North was canceled, looked like due to region lockdown.

Instead Camb offered 3 races on card, if horse wins with Jnr 4y-o + then penalty free.

Race 6 (2 Jnrs drove in race) Result Jnrs 2nd & 3rd - margins head & neck.

Race 7 (3 Jnrs drove in race) Result Jnrs 1st, 2nd, 3rd - margin neck & neck.

The other race was a trot.

Race 7 was trifecta. They dictated the race being lead, trail & parked a lap out in a slow time & was a sprint home, was a long 4 lengths margin back to 4th. 

The most recent Jnr drive race at Alex, was a nice run race. The leader dictated slowly in-front, a lap out, a horse in 1-1 come out to inject some speed into race, & it was another closely contested race home up the straight. Close margin finish.

Bring on the Jnr Drive North verse South comp again. Will the South be able to take the Crown off the North? Some nice Jnrs in both Islands 😄

[Karrots]

The Jnrs continue to get results. Mana mini meeting yesterday.

4 races offered a penalty free win if driven by Jnr. With the Jnrs taking out 2 of the 4, also with a couple of placings. Not bad stats considering there are only 3 Jnrs driving in the fields. So more senior drivers in the races.

Of course I understand that trainers would be putting on Jnrs where they feel they have a real chance at winning. Still need to drive well.

The 3 are: 

L Whittaker & A Harrison - these two are fighting out the top North Jnr on points so far and

S O’Reilly - she has been coming up North for Camb and Mana meetings to drive in these races. She has caught the eye of Karrots. Nice driver. 

[eljay]

They all have the "pedigree" Karrots.      

[Karrots]

Well they did it again, fighting out the finish of the highest rating race at Camb, a close head, nose finish to get 2nd & 3rd. What was a good highlight for me, was the fair play driving.

Lead horse D Butcher did not give up lead, & parked stablemate A Harrison when making a mid-race move. Harrison not even look to take lead, was not there in any case. Donnelly runners finishing 1st & 3rd respectively. 

Another great example of Fair Play racing 😁👍

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Karrots said:

Well they did it again, fighting out the finish of the highest rating race at Camb, a close head, nose finish to get 2nd & 3rd. What was a good highlight for me, was the fair play driving.

Lead horse D Butcher did not give up lead, & parked stablemate A Harrison when making a mid-race move. Harrison not even look to take lead, was not there in any case. Donnelly runners finishing 1st & 3rd respectively. 

Another great example of Fair Play racing 😁👍

Incorrect Karrots !!! lol,   being cheeky I would say if Butcher in front gave the lead to stablemate The Banker , when it circled field , they run First and second for sure IMO.  

That Would of left the favourite (Pull the otherLeg), 'parked out' for Lap and a 1/2 and it would of battled into third , (instead of nearly winning the race ,and it would of in one more stride after getting 1-1 trail) lol...........

ALLSTARS would of run first and second with those Donnelly runners for sure and certain?? lol.....

Butcher got lucky and held on the photo by a snotter, What a Fab trainer ARNA DONNELLY is turning into.

[Karrots]

49 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Incorrect Karrots !!! lol,   being cheeky I would say if Butcher in front gave the lead to stablemate The Banker , when it circled field , they run First and second for sure IMO.  

That Would of left the favourite (Pull the otherLeg), 'parked out' for Lap and a 1/2 and it would of battled into third , (instead of nearly winning the race ,and it would of in one more stride after getting 1-1 trail) lol...........

ALLSTARS would of run first and second with those Donnelly runners for sure and certain?? lol.....

Butcher got lucky and held on the photo by a snotter, What a Fab trainer ARNA DONNELLY is turning into.

Hehehehe. Ok, so what you are saying is that if they stable drove then they would of finished 1st & 2nd. However they did not & they finished 1st & 3rd.

The difference in these results if they had of used the assistance of stable driving, clearly shows stable driving is an advantage for those involved. And a disadvantage for those not involved.

How is that fair play?

Have you got your stubbie holder ready hehehe, big nite tonight racing 😄

Edited March 4, 2021 by Karrots

[Gammalite]

1 minute ago, Karrots said:

Hehehehe. Ok, so what you are saying is that if they stable drove then they would of finished 1st & 2nd. However they did not & they finished 1st & 3rd.

The difference in these results if they had of used the assistance of stable driving, clearly shows stable driving is an advantage for those involved. And a disadvantage for those not involved.

Is that what you are saying?

How is that fair play?

Have you got your stubbie holder ready hehehe, big nite tonight racing 😄

@ 2 coffees so far today lol.....  !! heheh definitely yes ! to your questions there Karrots !! 

Us your stablemate to beat the favourite if you can ! for sure !  

The tactics used nearly resulted in being 2nd and 3rd for Donnelly only.(held by a nose only) 

My tactics , an easy Donnelly Quinella , not sure what order, But the Fav that got second would of been struggling.

All's Fair in Love and War. lol.......  congrats to winner though , JUST did enough.

[Karrots]

9 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

heheh definitely yes ! to your questions there Karrots !! 

Us your stablemate to beat the favourite if you can ! for sure !  

Hehe me too re coffee. Oh I edited it and chopped out is that what you are saying, the only question I have is 

How is that fair play? 😄

Use stablemate to beat the fav

Sooo - How is that fair play? 😄

[Gammalite]

19 minutes ago, Karrots said:

Hehe me too re coffee. Oh I edited it and chopped out is that what you are saying, the only question I have is 

How is that fair play? 😄

Use stablemate to beat the fav

Sooo - How is that fair play? 😄

Goes without saying Karrots , Race tactics are what WIN you races. (as perfected by ALLstars) 

Of course you can USE your stablemate , (as well as any other runner) to enhance your chances in the race.

Because you KNOW what they are 'Likely to do" . That helps you as much as them. 

It's ONLY natural that , If you are going to get Beaten in a race, it would be GREAT if it was the stablemate. You aren't driving for 'opposition' stables to win.

EXAMPLE If David Butcher gave up the lead in R6 last night, to his stablemate, I predict he would of won MUCH easier than he did. PLUS his stablemate would of had 'more chance' than death sitting as well. A good thing?? 

As it was the main opponent (FAV) had a great trip (PULLtheOtherLEG) and nearly blew them both away. 

By letting Stablemate take lead, (something you wouldn't of let the FAV have) you would of been 'Using It' to beat the Favourite . Fav would of been death seating instead and it's chances GREATLY REDUCED. a good thing ??

FAIR PLAY it is!!!!! ,  to try and beat the main opponent , AND look after your stablemate same time. excellent !! ??

[Karrots]

So basically anytime a bigger stable lines multiple horses up they hold an advantage over all the other runners. If they chose to stable drive and give each other cover or hand up the lead to 1 another.

I find this sad for those others in the race/s with just 1 runner. As that is not on an even playing field.

There should be a rule if there is not already, that every horse entered in a race, runs on its own merits and not to be assisted by stable runners.

We see this differently and that is totally fine.

So lets agree to disagree.

Chat later Gamms, no more takers yet for the $1 game. But hopefully Whippy comes thru with a Quaddy selection.

[the galah]

but 

4 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Goes without saying Karrots , Race tactics are what WIN you races. (as perfected by ALLstars) 

Of course you can USE your stablemate , (as well as any other runner) to enhance your chances in the race.

Because you KNOW what they are 'Likely to do" . That helps you as much as them. 

It's ONLY natural that , If you are going to get Beaten in a race, it would be GREAT if it was the stablemate. You aren't driving for 'opposition' stables to win.

EXAMPLE If David Butcher gave up the lead in R6 last night, to his stablemate, I predict he would of won MUCH easier than he did. PLUS his stablemate would of had 'more chance' than death sitting as well. A good thing?? 

As it was the main opponent (FAV) had a great trip (PULLtheOtherLEG) and nearly blew them both away. 

By letting Stablemate take lead, (something you wouldn't of let the FAV have) you would of been 'Using It' to beat the Favourite . Fav would of been death seating instead and it's chances GREATLY REDUCED. a good thing ??

FAIR PLAY it is!!!!! ,  to try and beat the main opponent , AND look after your stablemate same time. excellent !! ??

Its not fair play if you drive to advantage any horse over your own,whether it be a stablemate or not. We all know it happens,but thats not fair to connections or punters. 

One of the reasons the success of the all stars was a major turn off for many punters was the team driving aspect of it.  

Drivers should drive every horse on its merits. 

[Gammalite]

29 minutes ago, Karrots said:

So basically anytime a bigger stable lines multiple horses up they hold an advantage over all the other runners. If they chose to stable drive and give each other cover or hand up the lead to 1 another.

I find this sad for those others in the race/s with just 1 runner. As that is not on an even playing field.

There should be a rule if there is not already, that every horse entered in a race, runs on its own merits and not to be assisted by stable runners.

Absolutely and totally an ADVANTAGE to have more than 1 stable runner in a race. (sad for you maybe)

NOT sad for the stable though, See if you can watch replay of Group 1 AUCKLAND CUP Dec31. Brilliance !!! 

Main opponent flushed out into the 'death seat' and all !!, (so Copy That only got 3rd after tough run) fantastic.

AND all the Stable runners DID run on their own merits (as in having every chance to win ) 

Perfection at it's absolute Ultimate Peak!!  on display for us to All admire and Behold. (great for punters too !!)

 

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

but 

Its not fair play if you drive to advantage any horse over your own,whether it be a stablemate or not. We all know it happens,but thats not fair to connections or punters. 

One of the reasons the success of the all stars was a major turn off for many punters was the team driving aspect of it.  

Drivers should drive every horse on its merits. 

I found Allstars to be a major 'Turn-on' as a punter heheheh, ALWAYS, any race, I got a run for my money.

In fact I could say thousands in front on punting Allstars, Sweet F all off the other NZ stables , lol......

 

1 hour ago, Karrots said:

So basically anytime a bigger stable lines multiple horses up they hold an advantage over all the other runners.

Here's a big stable Karrots , in the last tonight.

Surely You, and The Galah and everyone else would expect Steve TELFER with 5 runners , to work a plan in this race of tactics to defeat the other 3 runners.??????

Or is it 'Go and do your best and play for luck. hahaha He has the first 3 favoured runners , so SURELY should be able to do a little ALLstars magic ?? or Captain Nemo leads and wins??

Gammalite says Number 1 with Herlihy , lead at all costs !!!! hahaha lol.. If Captain Nemo leads he could win?

Gammalite says if Captain Nemo has the pace to lead, one of the other 4 Telfers needs to 'take him on' lol......

everyone still trying to win with these tactics , BUT making it harder for the MAIN OPPONENT to do so ????

 

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Sing To Me

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R47

1

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Tony Herlihy

Steve & Amanda Telfer

2

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Captain Nemo

3

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R48

2

Ft

Zachary Butcher

Ray Green

3

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Happy Place

6

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R51

3

Ft

Joshua Dickie

Sheryl Wigg

4

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Cloudy Bay

3

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R52

4

Ft

Todd Macfarlane

Steve & Amanda Telfer

5

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Richmond Tiger

4

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R52

5

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Andrew Drake(J)

Craig Sharpe

6

16X2X

Cashlodo Flybye

4

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R53

6

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Benjamin Butcher

Steve & Amanda Telfer

7

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Cya Art

3

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R54

7

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James Stormont

Steve & Amanda Telfer

8

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Show Me Heaven

3

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R55

8

Ft

Brent Mangos

Steve & Amanda Telfer

[Gammalite]

2 hours ago, the galah said:

ts not fair play if you drive to advantage any horse over your own,whether it be a stablemate or not. We all know it happens,but thats not fair to connections or punters. 

 

2 hours ago, Karrots said:

So basically anytime a bigger stable lines multiple horses up they hold an advantage over all the other runners. If they chose to stable drive and give each other cover or hand up the lead to 1 another.

 

Just looking at Addington Race 2 , only 6 in it , including 3 DUNN runners.

Brilliant display of Stable Driving !!!   (they obviously been watching ALLstars) absolute perfection.

All three Dunn runners 'looking after' each other. Had the MAIN OPPONENT Whitssox parked in the death, just where they wanted it , Ran 1st and 2nd easily . Group 1 winner battling 4th . Perfect !!! 

Big stables , lots of runners= HUGE advantage , just as you say (handing up lead and what-not)

[the galah]

10 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

 

Just looking at Addington Race 2 , only 6 in it , including 3 DUNN runners.

Brilliant display of Stable Driving !!!   (they obviously been watching ALLstars) absolute perfection.

All three Dunn runners 'looking after' each other. Had the MAIN OPPONENT Whitssox parked in the death, just where they wanted it , Ran 1st and 2nd easily . Group 1 winner battling 4th . Perfect !!! 

Big stables , lots of runners= HUGE advantage , just as you say (handing up lead and what-not)

I think your over thinking the stable driving. I had henry hubert clearly on top with the handicaps factored in. Driven accordingly.  A g whitesocks has been disappointing for a long time,and didn't look much of a winning chance.

 

[Gammalite]

8 minutes ago, the galah said:

I think your over thinking the stable driving. I had henry hubert clearly on top with the handicaps factored in. Driven accordingly.  A g whitesocks has been disappointing for a long time,and didn't look much of a winning chance.

 

Yes, but I would argue because of the 'Brilliant' team driving the 2nd Placegetter did everything but beat your selection. Because they looked after each other so well. Either one wins with 50 to go.

and you had CLASSIE BRIGADE 'marking' the Whitesox Just in case. But he too seems a shadow of former self.

[Karrots]

Gamms,

I didn't think it was stable driving in the race you said. As HH was heading with intent anyway, looked like driver had made move at same time without realising the stablemate was going to go too & would of kept surging forward regardless who was in lead. I would of called it stable driving had, CB from the rear come forward and taken the lead making them lead, trail and 3 back.

But honestly, we just hold different views to it, which is ok 😄. I dislike team driving & you like it. I wonder if it was a factor into Darling Me being transferred by the owners. I would of done the same thing too. In sense if my horse got lead, but then would hand up to the favoured stable runner. 

Now back to Alex back racing. More posters have joined 😄

[Richie]

The thing is stables like the Dunns and Allstars always drive positively.Even if they only have 1 horse in they will always be in first few turning for home and usually in lead or death.Thats how they are trained to race.No way was Henry Hubert going to let Whitesox get to lead as he is a lead/ death sit horse and always has been as tough as old boots

[the galah]

12 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Yes, but I would argue because of the 'Brilliant' team driving the 2nd Placegetter did everything but beat your selection. Because they looked after each other so well. Either one wins with 50 to go.

and you had CLASSIE BRIGADE 'marking' the Whitesox Just in case. But he too seems a shadow of former self.

In my opinion Classie brigade is a horse you only take in standing starts if drawn the front.thats my opinion.

[Gammalite]

Just now, Richie said:

The thing is stables like the Dunns and Allstars always drive positively.Even if they only have 1 horse in they will always be in first few turning for home and usually in lead or death.Thats how they are trained to race.No way was Henry Hubert going to let Whitesox get to lead as he is a lead/ death sit horse and always has been as tough as old boots

Exactly !!  and just like the great horse Gammalite, sit outside them (or lead if possible) and grind them into the ground , with just an average driver, but even tougher than old boots, (chewed those up for dinner)

and WIN anyway .

[Richie]

1 minute ago, Karrots said:

Gamms,

I didn't think it was stable driving in the race you said. As HH was heading with intent anyway, looked like driver had made move at same time without realising the stablemate was going to go too & would of kept surging forward regardless who was in lead. I would of called it stable driving had, CB from the rear come forward and taken the lead making them lead, trail and 3 back.

But honestly, we just hold different views to it, which is ok 😄. I dislike team driving & you like it. I wonder if it was a factor into Darling Me being transferred by the owners. I would of done the same thing too. In sense if my horse got lead, but then would hand up to the favoured stable runner. 

Now back to Alex back racing. More posters have joined 😄

Darling Me was transferred  due to the stakes on offer in the North Island and the harder opposition in South Island,is also going to be served by NI stallion at some stage next season

[Karrots]

2 minutes ago, Richie said:

Darling Me was transferred  due to the stakes on offer in the North Island and the harder opposition in South Island,is also going to be served by NI stallion at some stage next season

Oh yeah I read an article about some of the reasons, I just wondered too, if stable driving which didn't benefit her was also a contributing factor. It may or may not have been. All good tho and thanks for joining in the $1 game 😄

[Gammalite]

7 minutes ago, Karrots said:

. As HH was heading with intent anyway, looked like driver had made move at same time without realising the stablemate was going to go too & would of kept surging forward regardless who was in lead.

No way Karrots , John Dunn KNEW exactly who was coming around, he's not that stupid.

Great driving by him on 2nd horse Race 2 Addington, did everything but win.

Please don't worry , I'm being positive here !!!  I loved the AUCKLAND CUP drives, from ALLstars, brilliant all round.

I loved the DUNN stable drives just then at Addington race 2 , Is first class driving at it's best.

Originally From last night I thought Butcher could of helped THE BANKER a bit more, (plus weakened the favourite with a bit of ALLstars/ Dunn type tactics ) but he Still WON the race JUST , so ALL good !!!!! 

[Gammalite]

7 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Here's a big stable Karrots , in the last tonight.

Surely You, and The Galah and everyone else would expect Steve TELFER with 5 runners , to work a plan in this race of tactics to defeat the other 3 runners.??????

Absolutely great tactics by the 5 stable runners in this one . Well played !!

Maurice McKendry will be having nightmares ALL week , about this race. lol......... pushed out 3 wide from the death seat no less, a lap out. (very aggressive their AGH you beast, to Help the other Stable-mates !!  lol ) 

Perfect Mr Telfer !!  great team driving and First 4 is the result !!!   exceptional work .

[Gammalite]

1 minute ago, Gammalite said:

Absolutely great tactics by the 5 stable runners in this one . Well played !!

Maurice McKendry will be having nightmares ALL week , about this race. lol......... pushed out 3 wide from the death seat no less, a lap out. (very aggressive their AGH you beast, to Help the other Stable-mates !!  lol ) 

Perfect Mr Telfer !!  great team driving and First 4 is the result !!!   exceptional work .

Apologies NOT Maurice , It was ZAC BUTCHER on Captain Nemo that got the

Heave Ho, in the death you go , Heave Ho out 3 wide you go .... lalala lol.......  poor bugger. 

Team work at it's best !!   fantastic.