Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Accusing ALLSTARS all the time by so many is just Unwarranted. Mainly because for years and years they have Won races in Australia too (different testing of swabs/ bloods than NZ) and would NOT of got away with any illegal administrations in the horses. As you say NOTHING to find. Exactly but the ALLSTARS MUST BE CHEATING because..... THEY WIN ALL THE TIME! In my opinion they win all the time because they are very very smart. That doesn't mean cheating but they are always looking for legitimate things that make the horse healthy and happy. I had this debate with a horse trainer in a private conversation. The leading Thoroughbred trainers all supplement their horses with Vitamin B (full complex), Vitamin C and Pentosan. NONE of those substances are illegal. But are essential to getting optimum performance and longevity out of an athlete. However your average trainer is not up with it nor can afford it nor have owners that are willing to pay for it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, the galah said: So thats a No to doing any reading as relates to the over 2 dozen vets,trainers and performance enhancer distributors who have been charged in New york. Some of those charged claiming in recordings "they don't have a test for it,theres no test for it in america". From your comments do you not believe that, or is nz testing more sophisticated than anywhere in America. One of those caught ,a jason servis is trained the 2020 kentucky derby winner (disqualified for blocking), and the saudi cup winner. Its alleged every one of his 1082 starters since 2018 raced on performance enhancers. Also, The jockey club of sudia arabia is withholding payment of the $20 million dollar race Servis's horse won because of the ongoing american court case.. ..... Still rest assured,at least we have your assurance noodlum that our testing would have picked up what saua arabia's couldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Exactly but the ALLSTARS MUST BE CHEATING because..... THEY WIN ALL THE TIME! In my opinion they win all the time because they are very very smart. That doesn't mean cheating but they are always looking for legitimate things that make the horse healthy and happy. I had this debate with a horse trainer in a private conversation. The leading Thoroughbred trainers all supplement their horses with Vitamin B (full complex), Vitamin C and Pentosan. NONE of those substances are illegal. But are essential to getting optimum performance and longevity out of an athlete. However your average trainer is not up with it nor can afford it nor have owners that are willing to pay for it. Actually i agree with nearly all of what you have just said,except in my opinion the all stars would be the most obvious stable likely to have used performance enhancers that may currently be legal or not tested for. Also,i think there is a link between someone who would supply people mood or performance enhancers to people,and the same thing going on to horses. You have previously replied no when i asked you that question,so each to there own opinion. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, the galah said: Also, The jockey club of sudia arabia is withholding payment of the $20 million dollar race Servis's horse won because of the ongoing american court case.. ..... Still rest assured,at least we have your assurance noodlum that our testing would have picked up what saua arabia's couldn't. But I thought you said our sport was the cleanest it has ever been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, the galah said: Actually i agree with nearly all of what you have just said,except in my opinion the all stars would be the most obvious stable likely to have used performance enhancers that may currently be legal or not tested for. Also,i think there is a link between someone who would supply mood or performance enhancers to people,and the same thing going on to their horses. You have previously replied no when i asked you that question,so each to there own opinion. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Just now, Chief Stipe said: But I thought you said our sport was the cleanest it has ever been? Doesn't matter what i say,or how many times i say it,you will twist it whatever way you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 15 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Exactly but the ALLSTARS MUST BE CHEATING because..... THEY WIN ALL THE TIME! In my opinion they win all the time because they are very very smart. That doesn't mean cheating but they are always looking for legitimate things that make the horse healthy and happy. I had this debate with a horse trainer in a private conversation. The leading Thoroughbred trainers all supplement their horses with Vitamin B (full complex), Vitamin C and Pentosan. NONE of those substances are illegal. But are essential to getting optimum performance and longevity out of an athlete. However your average trainer is not up with it nor can afford it nor have owners that are willing to pay for it. Most trainers give a Vitamin B to keep horses well, but yes the ALLStars had / have incredible record as per Waller and Te Akau for doing everything so well and looking for the edge on opponents (as well as fab riders/ drivers) The ALLSTARS horses are even 'labelled urgent' with the ugly white nasal patches (Dunn's Use them a bit too) so you can see straight away , they have that something extra on the rivals externally, let alone internally , lol........... The nasal strips giving that extra metre or 2 because horse had tiny bit more Oxygen than rival. Brilliant !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, the galah said: Doesn't matter what i say,or how many times i say it,you will twist it whatever way you want. You post a reference to a USA Thoroughbred trainer who allegedly doped horses but you don't post the whole story. What has been the outcome? You should know given you are obviously on top of this. The drug in question was Clenbuterol whch is a medication that can be used therapeutically to assist horses with respiratory difficulties but is suspected to have been abused due to its muscle-development properties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But I thought you said our sport was the cleanest it has ever been? In NZ , i think you will find is the reference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Shall we have a debate about Pentosan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: You post a reference to a USA Thoroughbred trainer who allegedly doped horses but you don't post the whole story. What has been the outcome? You should know given you are obviously on top of this. The cases are ongoing. Justice doesn't happen overnight there or anywhere.FBI worked with racing authorities and drug testing agencies which do testing for the likes of the olympics. Much more to be revealed one would think,with i guess pressure to go on some to talk,deals to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, the galah said: The cases are ongoing. Justice doesn't happen overnight there or anywhere.FBI worked with racing authorities and drug testing agencies which do testing for the likes of the olympics. Much more to be revealed one would think,with i guess pressure to go on some to talk,deals to be made. What about the drug in question? Clenbuterol? An approved drug used for respiratory disease. The "case" has so far come to nothing. Zip nada nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Shall we have a debate about Pentosan? Hahahaha No , joint disease treatment. thankfully the old joints are ok at present so don't need any, maybe crack another beer though ! lol......... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 23 minutes ago, the galah said: Actually i agree with nearly all of what you have just said,except in my opinion the all stars would be the most obvious stable likely to have used performance enhancers that may currently be legal or not tested for. curious, Is that because of Budget to afford treatments? or the outstanding results over 30-40 years that lead you to predict 'Not tested for' performance enhancers.? from the 'obvious ' stable. Why not relatives like brother Barry ? (miracle mile wins over the years) brother in law Tony Herlihy (wins galore) or Nat's sister Vicki Rassmussen ? (outstanding QLD results) They are on talking terms and ALL win heaps ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 9 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Hahahaha No , joint disease treatment. thankfully the old joints are ok at present so don't need any, maybe crack another beer though ! lol......... Well the top stables are injecting Pentosan on a regular basis to prevent wear and tear. About $80 a week in cost. They do it before the problems occur. The reality is in all codes we are asking animals to do what athletically they are not physiologically designed to do. Now they wowsers and greenies will jump up and down but it is the same with human athletes. How do you think the Greatest Of All Time rugby player kept going? I bit he is stiff in the mornings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 28 minutes ago, the galah said: The cases are ongoing. Justice doesn't happen overnight there or anywhere.FBI worked with racing authorities and drug testing agencies which do testing for the likes of the olympics. Much more to be revealed one would think,with i guess pressure to go on some to talk,deals to be made. What nearly 2 years? For a drug that is approved to be used for therapeutic reasons? The biggest issue in the court case is that the drugs weren't sourced from legit sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karrots Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 19 minutes ago, Gammalite said: maybe crack another beer though ! lol......... Its the middle of the day Gamms what are you up to lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, Gammalite said: curious, Is that because of Budget to afford treatments? or the outstanding results over 30-40 years that lead you to predict 'Not tested for' performance enhancers.? from the 'obvious ' stable. Why not relatives like brother Barry ? (miracle mile wins over the years) brother in law Tony Herlihy (wins galore) or Nat's sister Vicki Rassmussen ? (outstanding QLD results) They are on talking terms and ALL win heaps ? Mostly just from what i see on the track. from observation. Logic. I don't view the b purdon or the t herlihy stable similar in that respect. I am sure they use vets who advise them on the latest legal tonics,or whatever. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe there is a link,but its not consistently obvious to me.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Well the top stables are injecting Pentosan on a regular basis to prevent wear and tear. About $80 a week in cost. They do it before the problems occur. The reality is in all codes we are asking animals to do what athletically they are not physiologically designed to do. Now they wowsers and greenies will jump up and down but it is the same with human athletes. How do you think the Greatest Of All Time rugby player kept going? I bit he is stiff in the mornings Yes am sure All the worlds top cyclists for example take 'wear and tear' shots everyday. You just can't perform at that level riding over Mountain ranges , etc day after day without performance enhancing drugs. They made a big deal about Lance Armstrong , but it take a LONG TIME to trace all the drugs and 'Masking ' agents used. The Truth is , they all take something to feel good, look good ,GO good ....... day after day. Horses all get something to help with that too, I used to tube saline drench every Sunday , all the Saturday night Metro runners and give them a swim and they'd be feeling great again by Monday, ready for another crack next weekend. Part of the challenge is keeping them well (Pentosan sounds useful Chief!!) , then you drive them well, then you win. (All going well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: What nearly 2 years? For a drug that is approved to be used for therapeutic reasons? The biggest issue in the court case is that the drugs weren't sourced from legit sources. In the USA Its alleged some manufactured blocking agents,masking agents,epo agents,etc. and others charged used or distributed.Much more to it than what just using a theraputic drug. Edited March 4, 2021 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 minute ago, the galah said: In the USA Its alleged some manufactured blocking agents,nasking agents,epo agents,etc. and others charged used or distributed.Much more to it than what just using a theraputic drug. WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? You are fixated on finding something that isn't there! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Horses all get something to help with that too, I used to tube saline drench every Sunday , all the Saturday night Metro runners and give them a swim and they'd be feeling great again by Monday, ready for another crack next weekend. Part of the challenge is keeping them well (Pentosan sounds useful Chief!!) , then you drive them well, then you win. (All going well) Thats the approach of a good honest trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, the galah said: Thats the approach of a good honest trainer. So you approve of saline drenching after a race (just not before because that is akin to milk shaking)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE? You are fixated on finding something that isn't there! The point i have been trying to make to you,is testing does not pick up all performance enhancers. Simple as that. The reference to the usa i thought was self explanatory. You argue from both sides of the argument sometimes,i just stick to the same one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: So you approve of saline drenching after a race (just not before because that is akin to milk shaking)? Haha there are 'different' elements in the pre-race milkshakes Chief. At one stage it was suggested BEst results were if administered just one hour before Race-time with certain mixes. That caused a few horses to go missing on a walk from the stabling area on occasion. lol .not stables I was with , but there were some prominent ones BTW , I swear on dead mother and fathers graves I Never once gave a pre-race drench... so don't think little of me. lol..... (only drive at speed limits too lol...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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