Chief Stipe Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Reefton said: I know Riccarton have the big money meetings but how long before trainers start to boycott them? I know as an owner I am sick of getting the excuse that the horse got down on the fence and never had a hope. And that two year old filly should have back type on Cup Day but got switched to the inner and the rest is history. I only lease a share but if I owned her I would be quite shitty. She has a stakes race in prospect in early May(assuming she gets there of course) but am I better buying a lotto ticket? The only option Riccarton have at the moment is to shift meetings to other local tracks - Motukarara, Ashburton. It was clearly evident that the track at the last meeting wasn't going to be any better than the previous meeting. It will be interesting to see what they do to the main track when the AWT kicks in. I imagine they don't have much cash floating around and the next big meetings will have jumps racing won't they? I guess you could run a hybrid meeting using the outside of the turf track for jumps and the AWT for flat racing while the inside of the turf track was renovated. But in saying that it is going to be a big job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 30 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The Penetrometer or even the Going Stick won't tell you if the surface will break up and become shifty either. They do penetrometer readings at 1.5m off the rail 3m off the rail and 4.5m off the rail and probably a couple more at Riccarton. The variance between the inner readings and those further out is the significant matter not whether the track will break up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 19 minutes ago, Reefton said: They do penetrometer readings at 1.5m off the rail 3m off the rail and 4.5m off the rail and probably a couple more at Riccarton. The variance between the inner readings and those further out is the significant matter not whether the track will break up Partly but you could get the same penetrometer reading on two different parts of the track BEFORE they raced on it. But after they have raced on it one part might become shifty and the other not. You only have to go back to that track last October which you and Pitty said was fantastic to see the difference in the clouds of dirt. Regardless you will see that bias is often overstated as is the impact on barrier draws. If you watch the races you will see the Jockey's migrate to what they think is the best part of the course anyway. How many horses got blocked for a run on Saturday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 22 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: So you are both smoking the same stuff? The results don't show any bias with regard to draws. But who would have known - not you. That aside if any trainer had walked the track prior to scratching time they would have seen it's state. "You would not have to be a rocket scientist to work that out"! Expecting it to be any better than the previous raceday on the same part of the track would have required extreme optimism. Perhaps Frye should have scratched as soon as the draws came out. Perhaps you need a rocket up your ass to realise not all trainers can travel to a race track...to walk it...FFS They rely...as indeed does the punter...for an ACCURATE reading... That SHOULD include the going stick reading across the track.... ?..just as ALLPRESS does with her stick as she walks the width How f in hard is it to give stakeholders those accurate readings? It's like giving a Whanganui 11...where readings are taken to the pathetic 4.5M mark... ?..yet race down the faster outside rail on a...wtf knows? But it's DEFINITELY faster Get ya head around that Rocket boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 37 minutes ago, Thomass said: Perhaps you need a rocket up your ass to realise not all trainers can travel to a race track...to walk it...FFS They rely...as indeed does the punter...for an ACCURATE reading... That SHOULD include the going stick reading across the track.... ?..just as ALLPRESS does with her stick as she walks the width How f in hard is it to give stakeholders those accurate readings? It's like giving a Whanganui 11...where readings are taken to the pathetic 4.5M mark... ?..yet race down the faster outside rail on a...wtf knows? But it's DEFINITELY faster Get ya head around that Rocket boy We are still waiting for your Masterclass on how it makes a difference specifically to your punting tips especially when you consider you have no control over what the Jockey decides to do with or without the information. Nor do you have any idea how those reading will change during the day. Statistically draws didn't make a difference at Riccarton so the Stipe was right and maybe Fry not so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 On 15/03/2021 at 8:25 PM, Chief Stipe said: Partly but you could get the same penetrometer reading on two different parts of the track BEFORE they raced on it. But after they have raced on it one part might become shifty and the other not. You only have to go back to that track last October which you and Pitty said was fantastic to see the difference in the clouds of dirt. Regardless you will see that bias is often overstated as is the impact on barrier draws. If you watch the races you will see the Jockey's migrate to what they think is the best part of the course anyway. How many horses got blocked for a run on Saturday? The Riccarton issue is clearly irrigation being inconsistent and the inside especially down the straight) being damper than the middle and outer track. I would be astonished if there was not a significant variance between readings across the track at the various points on race mornings and prior to. If there is not that track should race fairly right across and it is clear that it is not doing so. Mind you they would be easy enough to doctor. This is presented as the premier South Island Club(based on the NZTR money dished out) and at the moment it is not presenting in a manner anywhere near befitting that title 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 8 hours ago, Reefton said: The Riccarton issue is clearly irrigation being inconsistent It isn't the cause it is a symptom. However I've given up trying to convince you otherwise. Apparently a bunch of farmers and their tractors will fix it. The fact is no major track renovation has occurred in 25 years. Compare that to what has been done to the major metropolitan tracks in OZ and you get the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 17 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: We are still waiting for your Masterclass on how it makes a difference specifically to your punting tips especially when you consider you have no control over what the Jockey decides to do with or without the information. Nor do you have any idea how those reading will change during the day. Statistically draws didn't make a difference at Riccarton so the Stipe was right and maybe Fry not so. Fair dinkum.... We've done this to death and you still don't LISTEN Alors....if said horse draws insideish on an H 11 at Whangas... ...the chances of either dropping out or heading straight to the front on a DEATH ZONE Track...to avoid certain DEATH ...is now incremental to its odds of winning Thats all one needs to evaluate... Some half widgets like bazzo and Gras 'invest' on the death zone attendees...finding 'value' ...they wouldnt know death zone if the grim reaper sythed their winkies off and gave them 2 minutes to get the f out of his space The Oirish explain that away with "fecken idjiots" So it's a universal language easily understood... ....apart from you and them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Thomass said: Alors....if said horse draws insideish on an H 11 at Whangas... ...the chances of either dropping out or heading straight to the front on a DEATH ZONE Track...to avoid certain DEATH What distance? Show me the statistics where the draw shows a difference in advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Seems Danny Frye pulled the right rein with Gelato , leads all the way today at Ashburton to win easily , was as long as 16's backed into 11's . I backed it at 1st start and followed when scr last week , took 14's yesterday thinking it was overs , hope everybody else did . Trainer 1 , Stipes 0 . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitman Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, nomates said: Seems Danny Frye pulled the right rein with Gelato , leads all the way today at Ashburton to win easily , was as long as 16's backed into 11's . I backed it at 1st start and followed when scr last week , took 14's yesterday thinking it was overs , hope everybody else did . Trainer 1 , Stipes 0 . And as the owner he also collects $11,500 Pearl Bonus Great win and I ran second !!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 On 17/03/2021 at 7:18 AM, Chief Stipe said: It isn't the cause it is a symptom. However I've given up trying to convince you otherwise. Apparently a bunch of farmers and their tractors will fix it. The fact is no major track renovation has occurred in 25 years. Compare that to what has been done to the major metropolitan tracks in OZ and you get the answer. Farmers and their tractors? Well let me remind you that it wasn't 'farmers and their tractors' that f*#"^d it in the first place Nor was it 'farmers and their tractors' that f*#"^d Invercargill, Gore, Wingatui Ashburton, Kumara, Greymouth, Rangiora, Trentham, Awapuni, Te Rapa, Pukekohe and Ellerslie (some admittedly temporarily) If they listened and relied a bit more on 'farmers and their tractors'(as Riccarton effectively did for 100 plus years without major issues) they would be a frigging sight better off. That track may have had issue 25 years ago but all it needed was a bit of reshaping(and not too much of that either given its circumference) and resowing occasionally. Given its size they could have an inner and outer track to give part a break while being resown As for telling me about Aussie well I only need to think of R Dufficy's regular comments re lanes and bias to know it is not all perfection over there either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzenza365 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Have a read to see how far we have reached in decline. I thought Thomas would be all over this.It is about how punters were told incorrectly what the track readings were. Just more crap from this outfit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzenza365 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Just now, muzenza365 said: Have a read to see how far we have reached in decline. I thought Thomas would be all over this.It is about how punters were told incorrectly what the track readings were. Just more crap from this outfit Sorry it was at Ashburton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 6 hours ago, muzenza365 said: Sorry it was at Ashburton Still a major cockup. With computerization those things should be loaded automatically and no possibility of error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzenza365 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 38 minutes ago, Reefton said: Still a major cockup. With computerization those things should be loaded automatically and no possibility of error. But they were, so who is at wrong? The punters who did the form under the false readings given by race control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Lisa Allpress saying Trentham patchy and not up to standard for Oaks day , she was trying to be diplomatic , sounded frustrated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 On 19/03/2021 at 2:34 PM, muzenza365 said: Have a read to see how far we have reached in decline. I thought Thomas would be all over this.It is about how punters were told incorrectly what the track readings were. Just more crap from this outfit Look people make mistakes Kev..even moi...once Raceday control made an error with a 3 and a 4....happens once in a blue moon... By far the greatest sin is not letting Punters know the stick readings up the straight every meeting... If the rails had irrigation being Shang highed all over the place with the wind......then Punters have a right to know that? Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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