Business Case - CJC Riccarton All Weather Track - here it is!

[Chief Stipe]

Not quite!

I thought I would create my own spreadsheet model as no one seems to have a copy of the business case and I can't be bothered going through an Official Information request and being told for commercial reasons I can't have it.

So BOAY'ers perhaps we can put some assumptions together and jointly come up with a close estimate.

Costs I have so far:

2 Extra full-time staff @$30/hr.  The $30 includes overtime and all the extras that go with employing people.  Total:  $124,800.  Should there be more additional staff?

Annual Maintenance costs (including machinery opex):  $50,000 
Annual Reserve Account for 3 year renovation:  $250,000 divided by 3 = $85,000  This figure comes from two club accounts one of which is Pakenham, Victoria, Australia.

Annual costs so far:  Approximately $260,000

Can anyone think of other costs?  Depreciation for specialised grooming machinery?

[nomates]

Money to employ someone that goes around patting them on the back and massaging their ego's .

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, nomates said:

Money to employ someone that goes around patting them on the back and massaging their ego's .

Mmmm a new dedicated Marketing Manager in a shirt skirt and heels that designs glossy brochures selling the virtues of the new training setup (the stables and lack of lights and security will be photo shopped out of the pictures).

[nomates]

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Mmmm a new dedicated Marketing Manager in a shirt skirt and heels that designs glossy brochures selling the virtues of the new training setup (the stables and lack of lights and security will be photo shopped out of the pictures).

If the money's right i'm up for it . Can't have the heels to high tho , 6'4" already .

[Pitman]

39 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Not quite!

I thought I would create my own spreadsheet model as no one seems to have a copy of the business case and I can't be bothered going through an Official Information request and being told for commercial reasons I can't have it.

So BOAY'ers perhaps we can put some assumptions together and jointly come up with a close estimate.

Costs I have so far:

2 Extra full-time staff @$30/hr.  The $30 includes overtime and all the extras that go with employing people.  Total:  $124,800.  Should there be more additional staff?

Annual Maintenance costs (including machinery opex):  $50,000 
Annual Reserve Account for 3 year renovation:  $250,000 divided by 3 = $85,000  This figure comes from two club accounts one of which is Pakenham, Victoria, Australia.

Annual costs so far:  Approximately $260,000

Can anyone think of other costs?  Depreciation for specialised grooming machinery?

Yes you are very good at creating a negative

But lets look at it positively

300 horses at $120 month = $36,000 x 12 = $432,000 they'll be making money with trials, rent, etc

Don't think there will be any need for extra staff as the amount of training tracks to be maintained have been reduced.

I believe machinery required is included in the original contract, I might be wrong but think not.

[Pitman]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Mmmm a new dedicated Marketing Manager in a shirt skirt and heels that designs glossy brochures selling the virtues of the new training setup (the stables and lack of lights and security will be photo shopped out of the pictures).

No need to Market you people are doing it for us, thank you.

[Freda]

7 minutes ago, Pitman said:

Yes you are very good at creating a negative

But lets look at it positively

300 horses at $120 month = $36,000 x 12 = $432,000 they'll be making money with trials, rent, etc

Don't think there will be any need for extra staff as the amount of training tracks to be maintained have been reduced.

I believe machinery required is included in the original contract, I might be wrong but think not.

I believe that is correct.

[nomates]

4 minutes ago, Pitman said:

No need to Market you people are doing it for us, thank you.

I think you under estimate the amount of marketing that is required to convince the majority of industry participants that these A/W's are racing's solve , those with access to these tracks think it's great , i wonder why that could be ? 

The vast majority struggling along at one of the great unwashed tracks i can assure believe this more gross mismanagement .

[Huey]

3 minutes ago, nomates said:

I think you under estimate the amount of marketing that is required to convince the majority of industry participants that these A/W's are racing's solve , those with access to these tracks think it's great , i wonder why that could be ? 

The vast majority struggling along at one of the great unwashed tracks i can assure believe this more gross mismanagement .

Of course he underestimates racing on it also, wait till the impact of that kicks in. Ok when you got 50 -60 in work but what happens when the 5 -10 horse trainer finds out none of theirs goes on that , they wont hang around that's for sure. 

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Pitman said:

Yes you are very good at creating a negative

But lets look at it positively

300 horses at $120 month = $36,000 x 12 = $432,000 they'll be making money with trials, rent, etc

Don't think there will be any need for extra staff as the amount of training tracks to be maintained have been reduced.

I believe machinery required is included in the original contract, I might be wrong but think not.

Very optimistic of you Pitty.  With regard to the Business Case "Strawman" at this stage I'm focusing on the costs.  Now the machinery costs I referred to isn't the capital cost but the annual opex costs i.e. fuel, maintenance and depreciation.  So the capital is irrelevant.

With regard to your "positive" approach with regard to revenue I'd rather we were realistic than Pitty in the Sky.

Currently, according to the last annual accounts, the revenue obtained from "Services Rendered" which includes rentals and track fees is $514k however that includes rentals to members.  Only $253k from track fees.

So where are the 300 horses coming from?

What will be the track gallop fee?  It is AUD$80 a gallop at Pakenham.  Are local trainers able to afford this?  Or owners for that matter!

Where are the trials shifting from?  What will be the trial fee?  

In the model I have to be careful that I don't double dip on revenue or expenditure.

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Huey said:

Of course he underestimates racing on it also, wait till the impact of that kicks in. Ok when you got 50 -60 in work but what happens when the 5 -10 horse trainer finds out none of theirs goes on that , they wont hang around that's for sure. 

Especially if they have to pay $80 a gallop on a track that doesn't suit their horse.

[Pitman]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Very optimistic of you Pitty.  With regard to the Business Case "Strawman" at this stage I'm focusing on the costs.  Now the machinery costs I referred to isn't the capital cost but the annual opex costs i.e. fuel, maintenance and depreciation.  So the capital is irrelevant.    OKAY

With regard to your "positive" approach with regard to revenue I'd rather we were realistic than Pitty in the Sky.     I AM BEING VERY REALISTIC

Currently, according to the last annual accounts, the revenue obtained from "Services Rendered" which includes rentals and track fees is $514k however that includes rentals to members.  Only $253k from track fees.   AGREED BUT THERE WILL BE MORE HORSES TRAINED AT RICCARTON AND TRIALS RUN MORE OFTEN

So where are the 300 horses coming from? IT WILL ONLY REQUIRE 2 MAYBE 3 MORE TRAINERS TO SET UP AT RICCARTON -RANGIORA WILL BE GONE AS I HAVE SAID FOR OVER 10 YEARS

What will be the track gallop fee?  It is AUD$80 a gallop at Pakenham.  Are local trainers able to afford this?  Or owners for that matter! NO NEED FOR SEPERATE GALLOP FEE AND DON'T EXPECT THERE TO BE

Where are the trials shifting from?  What will be the trial fee?  RANGIORA, MOTUKARARA, ASHBURTON, TIMARU.  FEE NO MORE THAN NOW

In the model I have to be careful that I don't double dip on revenue or expenditure.

 

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Pitman said:

Very optimistic of you Pitty.  With regard to the Business Case "Strawman" at this stage I'm focusing on the costs.  Now the machinery costs I referred to isn't the capital cost but the annual opex costs i.e. fuel, maintenance and depreciation.  So the capital is irrelevant.    OKAY

With regard to your "positive" approach with regard to revenue I'd rather we were realistic than Pitty in the Sky.     I AM BEING VERY REALISTIC

Currently, according to the last annual accounts, the revenue obtained from "Services Rendered" which includes rentals and track fees is $514k however that includes rentals to members.  Only $253k from track fees.   AGREED BUT THERE WILL BE MORE HORSES TRAINED AT RICCARTON AND TRIALS RUN MORE OFTEN

So where are the 300 horses coming from? IT WILL ONLY REQUIRE 2 MAYBE 3 MORE TRAINERS TO SET UP AT RICCARTON -RANGIORA WILL BE GONE AS I HAVE SAID FOR OVER 10 YEARS

What will be the track gallop fee?  It is AUD$80 a gallop at Pakenham.  Are local trainers able to afford this?  Or owners for that matter! NO NEED FOR SEPERATE GALLOP FEE AND DON'T EXPECT THERE TO BE

Where are the trials shifting from?  What will be the trial fee?  RANGIORA, MOTUKARARA, ASHBURTON, TIMARU.  FEE NO MORE THAN NOW

 

So basically the AWT at Riccarton is going to suck the regions dry?  Some good turf tracks mentioned there are going to lose revenue.  Low cost tracks as well.  

Will there be enough extra revenue to fund the renovation of the turf at Riccarton?  

[Pitman]

12 minutes ago, Huey said:

Of course he underestimates racing on it also, wait till the impact of that kicks in. Ok when you got 50 -60 in work but what happens when the 5 -10 horse trainer finds out none of theirs goes on that , they wont hang around that's for sure. 

I DON"T KNOW OF ANY SOUTH ISLANDERS WITH 50-60 IN WORK - WE HAVE A LOT LESS THAN THAT

YOU PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP AND COMPREHEND - THE RACING IS GOING TO BE LIMITED TO INDUSTRY DAYS DURING THE WINTER, BE GREAT FOR TRAINING AND TRIALS THOUGH AS YOU AND CHIEF KEEP SAYING, THANKS

[Pitman]

Just now, Chief Stipe said:

So basically the AWT at Riccarton is going to suck the regions dry?  Some good turf tracks mentioned there are going to lose revenue.  Low cost tracks as well.  

Will there be enough extra revenue to fund the renovation of the turf at Riccarton?  

WELL IT LOOKS VERY PROFITABLE - DESPITE WHAT YOU SAY - SO CAN ONLY HELP

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, Pitman said:

WELL IT LOOKS VERY PROFITABLE - DESPITE WHAT YOU SAY - SO CAN ONLY HELP

I'm not sure it is profitable as I haven't finished the financial model - still working on getting the costs.  But assuming that you are "in the know" Pitty it is clear what the intent is and thanks for declaring their hand.  That is - more of the same.  Which quite frankly hasn't worked so far and is what has got us into this shyte - namely suck the provinces dry and shift from a low cost model of operation that had a wide market reach to a high cost model with less market reach.

Here's hoping stakeholders wake up and fight back because quite frankly going on the CJC's record to date I don't have much confidence that your lot are going to get this right.  

[Pitman]

I know no more than you but I'm being positive, as always. I have been privy to no more information than any other local trainers, but as you know I am in favour of the AWT as an alternative racing and training facility especially during the winter, also we are getting a new grass galloping track as well.

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Pitman said:

also we are getting a new grass galloping track as well.

Is that the one they race on or another training track?

[Bill]

Check out the latest drone footage on the nz racing site, it looks fantastic. It will be a great asset for racing in the greater canterbury region. Can’t wait to get down there and have a look at it!

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, Bill said:

Check out the latest drone footage on the nz racing site, it looks fantastic. It will be a great asset for racing in the greater canterbury region. Can’t wait to get down there and have a look at it!

Perhaps that's how they will pay for its maintenance and renovation of the turf track - charge tourists and sight seers for guided tours?

[Chief Stipe]

14 hours ago, Pitman said:

I DON"T KNOW OF ANY SOUTH ISLANDERS WITH 50-60 IN WORK - WE HAVE A LOT LESS THAN THAT

So where are you going to get the 300 horses that you referred to in your post?

How many horses have good stabling at Riccarton now?

Is there 300 in full work housed there?

Is there room for more than 300?

This AWT reminds me of the chap who won Lotto - bought the big $4m house and the $2m boat and a couple of dud horses and then realised that his $60k a year salary wasn't enough to pay the rates, fuel the boat or pay the horse trainer!

Capex is easy peasy when it is gifted to you but it is the Opex that hurts!

[Pitman]

9 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Shame you never accepted my offer.

However what has become clearly evident is you are either motivated entirely by self-interest or have no idea of what benefits the industry as a whole.

I realise you don't give a damn and probably view the AWT as your private training track but how is the recruitment of 6 more trainers with 50 or more horses going?  Wasn't that YOUR estimate of what will be required to enable the AWT to pay its way?  Even closing down all those tracks you mentioned isn't going to see 250 horses shift to Riccarton is it?

it will only need 50 or 60 extra horses

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, Pitman said:

it will only need 50 or 60 extra horses

How many horses have good stabling at Riccarton now?

Is there 300 in full work housed there?

Is there room for more than 300?

[Pitman]

12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

How many horses have good stabling at Riccarton now? OVER 200

Is there 300 in full work housed there? No, SEVERAL HORSES TRAINED OFF TRACK - BECKETT, PITMAN, COURT, PRENDERGAST, BURROWES, LLOYD,ETC.

Is there room for more than 300? NO NEED 300 X $120 X !2MONTHS = $432,000  YES! BEST TRAINING FACILITY IN NZ, THANKS. WILL ALSO RACE/TRIAL ON AWT

 

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, Pitman said:

 BEST TRAINING FACILITY IN NZ, THANKS. WILL ALSO RACE/TRIAL ON AWT

And the worst "Premier" Turf Track in New Zealand.