JJ Flash Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, Basil said: The sad fact in this case is that CJ is both a serial and serious offender, regardless of how he likes to spin it. A few months back, I posted the full stats (to that date) on implementation of the new whip law — the ratio of fines and suspensions to warnings was tiny, i.e., to get fined or suspended, you have to stand out. Facts and Chiefs theories on them differ on a regular basis. This is just another example of him attacking the messenger, in this case you and i for pointing out the whip facts Edited May 13, 2021 by JJ Flash 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 17 hours ago, Gammalite said: They know the rules , so have to abide by them. teenager or CJ or Mangoose, rules are rules. Thanks for your common sense reply Gamma 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 hour ago, JJ Flash said: Facts and Chiefs theories on them differ on a regular basis. This is just another example of him attacking the messenger, in this case you and i for pointing out the whip facts FFS Flash the facts are that the rule has flaws but you just keep up the sycophantic homage. The blind trust in the administrators and lack of critical analysis by people such as yourself is why the industry is in free-fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 38 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The blind trust in the administrators FFS , you cant be serious. Its been my assertions for years that Harness's amateur administrators are part of the reason for its slow demise. However, as is usual with my comments/opinions on here that we will have to agree to disagree re whip rules which i have no problems with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 56 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: FFS Flash the facts are that the rule has flaws but you just keep up the sycophantic homage. The blind trust in the administrators and lack of critical analysis by people such as yourself is why the industry is in free-fall. Think JJFlash is just saying the Rules that are in 'place currently' (whips) are what need to be followed. Changes are being made and sure, maybe Not working as you would like for CJ and one or two. I think Punters that I know (about 10 at local TAB) don't bet on Harness because: they get blocked in more and gallop more. TWO things Punters absolutely hate. so they bet on gallops. whip use not even mentioned. Racing Administrators are like the government, and just do WHAT THEY THINK IS BEST , at any moment in time. I quite liked the government response to Covid personally. We have HUGE crowds at the footy and races again. Then you can look at other countries, and see what happened (like Sweden that ignored it) some answers aren't easy. To Vaccinate or not? to lock down city or not? .to race in that harness standing start (or bet on it) or not ? use the whip on horse, or not? Decisions that don't come easy in a pressure situation. (and obviously not agreed to by many lol) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 On 12/05/2021 at 7:22 PM, hunterthepunter said: your bigger halfwit than the guy that changed the whip rule All the horse bashers still out in force, I see. One doesn't need to look far to see why harness is in trouble. Hear no evil, see no evil... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 On 12/05/2021 at 6:47 PM, Chief Stipe said: If a rule isn't working well, isn't achieving what it is supposed to and is difficult to enforce then it needs modifying. To do nothing as you suggest is the height of stupidity. Exactly. The one rule that will remove all ambiguity is to ban the whip altogether. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Basil said: All the horse bashers still out in force, I see. One doesn't need to look far to see why harness is in trouble. Hear no evil, see no evil... It's not tiddlywinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Basil said: Exactly. The one rule that will remove all ambiguity is to ban the whip altogether. Yeah right and then change how the reins are used and then ban the bit then the cropper then putting nails in their hooves then freeze branding blah blah blah. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Basil said: Exactly. The one rule that will remove all ambiguity is to ban the whip altogether. Thats a step too far Bas....what is required is this: There needs to be a Rule change to allow for a protest to be instigated where the whip guidelines have been breached. Same in galloping races. I cannot for the life of me understand why this is not put in place, right now. Irrespective of what ' chief stipe' thinks, this would be a major disincentive to cheating in the last few hundred metres, which is where most of the offenders lose the plot and belt shit out of their horses. Lets see races being taken off offenders when they win, especially major races....owners won't give the thickheads a second chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 4 minutes ago, Horace said: which is where most of the offenders lose the plot and belt shit out of their horses Did CJ "belt the shit out of his horse"? His case wasn't about the number of strikes but his wrist action. Daft rule too that you have to keep both hands on the reins at all times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 24 minutes ago, Horace said: Thats a step too far Bas....what is required is this: There needs to be a Rule change to allow for a protest to be instigated where the whip guidelines have been breached. Same in galloping races. I cannot for the life of me understand why this is not put in place, right now. Irrespective of what ' chief stipe' thinks, this would be a major disincentive to cheating in the last few hundred metres, which is where most of the offenders lose the plot and belt shit out of their horses. Lets see races being taken off offenders when they win, especially major races....owners won't give the thickheads a second chance! Horace, NO ONE is belting the shit out of horses at the harness racing these days. The rules say the reins must remain in one hand , and 99.9 % of drivers (not thickheads) can do this. Whip use on the horse with force , is practically ZERO. At the gallops you still have this 'Crazy Count The Number of Hits' thing happening . The jockeys (not thickheads) are required to try and find the 100m post and start counting (before and after)?. what a tough job it is they do even before pulling the whip. How is it you can't put yourself in their position? trying to judge their run with EXACT PRECISION to be FIRST at the WINNING POST? Not easy to out-think and out-manoeuvre a field of runners trying to beat you , no matter how easy so many think it is. and using the whip as an essential aid to achieve this. owners who shouldn't give them a second chance because they tried too hard to win with an extra strike? ? ? ? laughable !!? pretty fucked up owners then, that don't deserve victory in that case. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 12 hours ago, Gammalite said: Horace, NO ONE is belting the shit out of horses at the harness racing these days. The rules say the reins must remain in one hand , and 99.9 % of drivers (not thickheads) can do this. Whip use on the horse with force , is practically ZERO. At the gallops you still have this 'Crazy Count The Number of Hits' thing happening . The jockeys (not thickheads) are required to try and find the 100m post and start counting (before and after)?. what a tough job it is they do even before pulling the whip. How is it you can't put yourself in their position? trying to judge their run with EXACT PRECISION to be FIRST at the WINNING POST? Not easy to out-think and out-manoeuvre a field of runners trying to beat you , no matter how easy so many think it is. and using the whip as an essential aid to achieve this. owners who shouldn't give them a second chance because they tried too hard to win with an extra strike? ? ? ? laughable !!? pretty fucked up owners then, that don't deserve victory in that case. . Leopards don't change their spots Gamma... race 5 at rotorua gallops yesterday. Good old 'trudes' true to form, won the race and fined $300 for beating the horse. AND kept the race? Reece jones, first race ride for months, warned for excessive use of the whip, horse finished 3rd in a black type race. Rasmussen, Williams, etc etc win major harness races and get charged with excessive use/improper use etc..keep the races. Just more ammunition for the anti-racing brigade. Ask yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 50 minutes ago, Horace said: Just more ammunition for the anti-racing brigade. Ask yourself. I didn't realise they watch the races and read the JCA reports. Do you email them? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 52 minutes ago, Horace said: Rasmussen, Williams, etc etc win major harness races and get charged with excessive use/improper use etc..keep the races. I'm sure most of the people at SAFE understand excessive wrist action. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Horace said: Just more ammunition for the anti-racing brigade. Ask yourself. @Horace don't you think that dumb rules that are hard to police consistently provide more ammunition? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: @Horace don't you think that dumb rules that are hard to police consistently provide more ammunition? It's called society...any civilised society has to have Rules. A proportion of people will always want to rebel or transgress Rules, however they are coached. It seems to be human nature. Look at the narcicistic twat who thought he would ignore the Law on name suppression..thought he was the centre of attention until his penalty was delivered and now he's crying for mummy and saying ' it aint fair'. If I followed your reasoning I guess it would lead me to 'no rules'..hit horses whenever/wherever/as hard as you like...is that what you'd prefer? Is that how you would really like it to be in NZ? Anything goes? Aww shucks, may as well do away with the interference rules too eh, who cares if a few horses and riders hit the deck...🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 34 minutes ago, Horace said: It's called society...any civilised society has to have Rules. A proportion of people will always want to rebel or transgress Rules, however they are coached. It seems to be human nature. Look at the narcicistic twat who thought he would ignore the Law on name suppression..thought he was the centre of attention until his penalty was delivered and now he's crying for mummy and saying ' it aint fair'. If I followed your reasoning I guess it would lead me to 'no rules'..hit horses whenever/wherever/as hard as you like...is that what you'd prefer? Is that how you would really like it to be in NZ? Anything goes? Aww shucks, may as well do away with the interference rules too eh, who cares if a few horses and riders hit the deck...🤔 Horace, what interference rules?? The Harness interference rule is another diabolical one, that needs sorting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, Brodie said: Horace, what interference rules?? The Harness interference rule is another diabolical one, that needs sorting! Just speaking generally Brodie....as far as I'm aware the protest/interference rules in tb and harness are the same? You have to prove you were interfered with AND that you'd have beaten the one causing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Horace said: If I followed your reasoning I guess it would lead me to 'no rules'..hit horses whenever/wherever/as hard as you like...is that what you'd prefer? Is that how you would really like it to be in NZ? Anything goes? You are missing the point. If a rule isn't workable i.e. cannot be enforced correctly or consistently (sure raceday Stewards and the JCA might be dumb which doesn't help) then it is a bad rule. It needs to change. What is the objective of the whip rule? To supposedly benefit animal welfare however there is no evidence that one whip or three with or without wrist action affects the animal's welfare. So the rule objective is to appease an apparent want from a section of society who view racing as abhorrent. Now whatever rule you have wont appease that want however because the rule is a badly constructed rule it actually achieves nothing other than bring attention to racing!!! If you have any friends in the RIU or the JCA then lobby them to fix the dumb rules!!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Lol. The reality of it is that Animal Rights had no issue with the harness whip! HRNZ and Edward Rennell were the ones who pointed it out to them when their was absolutely nothing wrong with the original rule. If you had a problem with it then why were you still an enthusiast if you thought horses were being mistreated. The stupid Swarbrick and followers have a screw loose if they believe greyhound racing is mistreatment of them! Stupid schoolkid now wants to ban advertising of alcohol with sporting events and yet she thinks Cannabis should be enjoyed by all! Go figure, she needs to get a life instead of meddling in other people’s lives!! Dickhead lefties and Greenies need to wake up to themselves! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, Brodie said: The stupid Swarbrick and followers radical halfwits 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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