Melody Belle's 2.6M...

[Thomass]

Great money when you fork out 56k as a yearling..

Goes to a good home...and WRITTEN TYCOON

 

[Shad]

Yep, be interesting to see if she gets in foal firstly, and secondly whether she leaves any winners,great ride for the owners, wonder if they get a share of the sale price, she has been a great mare by our standards, and wish her a happy retirement. 

[Huey]

Phenomenal money for mares there , In NZ we got mares going on Gavel in foal from nice families by nice sires probably won't even get a bid!

[Chief Stipe]

17 hours ago, Shad said:

Yep, be interesting to see if she gets in foal firstly, and secondly whether she leaves any winners,great ride for the owners, wonder if they get a share of the sale price, she has been a great mare by our standards, and wish her a happy retirement. 

Yes they get a share as the syndicate share purchase involves ownership shares.  Plus the Fortuna markup!  I'm pretty sure Fortuna and Te Akau will clip the ticket as well.  

[Horace]

According to NZTR she won $4,220,000 odd. Thats $422,000 to Te Akau at 10%. Plus you can guarantee that the syndicate got charged plenty of expenses etc along the way.

If it was me I'm not sure if I'd be interested in paying Te Akau anything from the $2.6m, although I bet they send Fortuna an 'account'. Ellis/TeAkau tried that one on a well known stud in NZ a few years ago after the stud sold a mare Te akau trained. The stud owner told them to get stuffed. Needless to say Ellis hasn't bought any of their yearlings at Karaka since.🤑

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[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, Horace said:

it was me I'm not sure if I'd be interested in paying Te Akau anything from the $2.6m, although I bet they send Fortuna an 'account'. Ellis/TeAkau tried that one on a well known stud in NZ a few years ago after the stud sold a mare Te akau trained. The stud owner told them to get stuffed. Needless to say Ellis hasn't bought any of their yearlings at Karaka since

They wouldn't need to try anything if it was written into their syndication contracts which for those that are directly with Te Akau it is.

Given the way Fortuna load up the original purchase price I bet they have the 10% sale clause as well.  Whether Te Akau clip that ticket I don't know.  But I do know that Te Akau Syndication doesn't load up their original purchase price.

Based on what you are posting @Horace I'm assuming you are not close to any big stables.  Most if  not all only make a profit out of the sale of their colts and mares.  That is they struggle to break even through training.  Hence they get rid of the slow horses really quickly.

[Chief Stipe]

17 hours ago, Horace said:

Ellis/TeAkau tried that one on a well known stud in NZ a few years ago after the stud sold a mare Te akau trained. The stud owner told them to get stuffed. Needless to say Ellis hasn't bought any of their yearlings at Karaka since.

If you can prove that then I know someone who will donate $10k to charity.

[Horace]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

If you can prove that then I know someone who will donate $10k to charity.

'I'm pretty sure Fortuna and Te Akau will clip the ticket as well'....thats what you said Chief. ' Clipping the ticket' has very clear overtones of 'shady' if not 'illegal'  activity so I'd like to hear YOUR justification for saying that before you point the bone at me.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Horace said:

'I'm pretty sure Fortuna and Te Akau will clip the ticket as well'....thats what you said Chief. ' Clipping the ticket' has very clear overtones of 'shady' if not 'illegal'  activity so I'd like to hear YOUR justification for saying that before you point the bone at me.

FFS Horace there is nothing shady about it.  It is a saying "clip the ticket"!  Hell every stock agent clips the ticket.  

Nothing shady when it is written into the syndicate contract!

What you are eluding to is a "flick back" as a type of commission.  That is illegal.  

So either front up with proof or retract what you've said or take the bet.

 

[Horace]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

FFS Horace there is nothing shady about it.  It is a saying "clip the ticket"!  Hell every stock agent clips the ticket.  

Nothing shady when it is written into the syndicate contract!

What you are eluding to is a "flick back" as a type of commission.  That is illegal.  

So either front up with proof or retract what you've said or take the bet.

 

Consider the facts before you go chucking your weight around Chief.

The horse in question-a reasonably well performed mare-had been retired from the TA stable for some time. When TA heard she had been sold they held out ' their' hands for 10%. Quite rightly they were told to fornicate off in a different direction.

You are quick to defend TA,OP when he belts horses,morphine in winners etc etc..however if anyone is dumb enough to sign a contract with TA or any other trainer that says that said trainer will get a commission from the sale of a horse months after it has been retired they deserve to be hung,drawn and quartered.

And anyway an agreement like that would be almost impossible to enforce if it came to the crunch.

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, Horace said:

Consider the facts before you go chucking your weight around Chief.

You haven't posted any facts other than hearsay.

Either post the facts, retract what you have said or take the bet.

20 minutes ago, Horace said:

however if anyone is dumb enough to sign a contract with TA or any other trainer that says that said trainer will get a commission from the sale of a horse months after it has been retired they deserve to be hung,drawn and quartered.

And anyway an agreement like that would be almost impossible to enforce if it came to the crunch.

Wrong.  I've seen Te Akau's Syndicate contracts (I inquired about a share in a couple of yearlings I liked) and for any fillies that are syndicated the contract is quite clear that at the end of their racing career the filly or mare will be sold to dissolve the syndicate and sum sold for less a % to Te Akau will be distributed to the syndicate members.

Now back to your accusation.  You are making some serious allegations without any proof.  My advice to you is to withdraw them promptly or back them up with verifiable evidence of their veracity.

I'm happy to take this off-line and you can send me a private message with the details.

[Shad]

Would be interesting to know what a 5 percent shareholder, would walk away with after all training travel and fees have been deducted. 

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, Shad said:

Would be interesting to know what a 5 percent shareholder, would walk away with after all training travel and fees have been deducted. 

Easy to work out if you are talking about Melody Belle.

Stake Earnings plus Sale Price = $4m + $2.6m = $6.6m.

Roughly 85% is Syndicate earnings = $5.6m.

She raced 4 seasons.  Cost each season at $45,000 = $180,000.

Less $58,000 purchase price.

So $5,600,000 - $180,000 - $58,000 = $5,320,000 profit.

5% = $268,300 for around $2,900 initial outlay.

Damn I should have taken that share!!!!

[Horace]

19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You haven't posted any facts other than hearsay.

Either post the facts, retract what you have said or take the bet.

Wrong.  I've seen Te Akau's Syndicate contracts (I inquired about a share in a couple of yearlings I liked) and for any fillies that are syndicated the contract is quite clear that at the end of their racing career the filly or mare will be sold to dissolve the syndicate and sum sold for less a % to Te Akau will be distributed to the syndicate members.

Now back to your accusation.  You are making some serious allegations without any proof.  My advice to you is to withdraw them promptly or back them up with verifiable evidence of their veracity.

I'm happy to take this off-line and you can send me a private message with the details.

Tell you what..and this is my last post on this topic...you front up with a contract from Te akau that says they can demand a 10% fee from the sale of a horse....months, or in fact years if I read you correctly.. after it has been retired and I'll concede.

[Chief Stipe]

Actually it would be a tad less than that as Fortuna bump the purchase price up which Te Akau doesn't.

Still probably clear $250k as a 5% shareholder.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Horace said:

Tell you what..and this is my last post on this topic...you front up with a contract from Te akau that says they can demand a 10% fee from the sale of a horse....months, or in fact years if I read you correctly.. after it has been retired and I'll concede.

No no Horace you can't walk away from this that easily.

Either front up with some evidence or retract your statement.

It is not up to me to prove anything.

[Chief Stipe]

I gather the Stud wasn't a very big one Horace?  I just did a quick search through the NZB sales records and can't find any Studs that Ellis has stopped buying from.

Actually your story seems more and more to be a fabricated bunch of crap.

[Shad]

9 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Easy to work out if you are talking about Melody Belle.

Stake Earnings plus Sale Price = $4m + $2.6m = $6.6m.

Roughly 85% is Syndicate earnings = $5.6m.

She raced 4 seasons.  Cost each season at $45,000 = $180,000.

Less $58,000 purchase price.

So $5,600,000 - $180,000 - $58,000 = $5,320,000 profit.

5% = $268,300 for around $2,900 initial outlay.

Damn I should have taken that share!!!!

Thanks for Maths, I guess overseas travel wouldn't be cheap either, transportation to the lucky country, but that's a tidy return, not to mention the excitement along the way.

[Huey]

10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Easy to work out if you are talking about Melody Belle.

Stake Earnings plus Sale Price = $4m + $2.6m = $6.6m.

Roughly 85% is Syndicate earnings = $5.6m.

She raced 4 seasons.  Cost each season at $45,000 = $180,000.

Less $58,000 purchase price.

So $5,600,000 - $180,000 - $58,000 = $5,320,000 profit.

5% = $268,300 for around $2,900 initial outlay.

Damn I should have taken that share!!!!

$45k to race her a season ... yeah right!

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Huey said:

$45k to race her a season ... yeah right!

Your estimate is how much and why?

[Pitman]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Your estimate is how much and why?

It would be good if a share holder came on here and advised what they end up out of the sale, which interestingly was no where as much as Princess Coup bought several years ago.

$45k a year wow you don’t have much idea, every trip across to Australia would be close to $20k at least with travel, accom, race fees etc Insurance alone on $1m would be close to $40k

I think Jamie has done an outstanding job placing his good mares.

[Chief Stipe]

1 minute ago, Pitman said:

It would be good if a share holder came on here and advised what they end up out of the sale, which interestingly was no where as much as Princess Coup bought several years ago.

You really don't know much about bloodstock do you Pitty.  Princess Coup had a better Australian race record than Melody Belle and was better bred.

2 minutes ago, Pitman said:

$45k a year wow you don’t have much idea, every trip across to Australia would be close to $20k at least with travel, accom, race fees etc Insurance alone on $1m would be close to $40k

FFS Pitty - how many horses have you successfully campaigned in Australia?  Oh that's right you had a successful trip to Ascot!  You barely go past Trentham most years.

So if it ISN'T $45k a year - what were the costs?  $100k a year?  That's still over $5m in profit or $250k per 5% share.

6 minutes ago, Pitman said:

I think Jamie has done an outstanding job placing his good mares.

Yes the whole Te Akau operation seems to work doesn't it.  From yearling selection through to racing and then selling.  Jamie being but one cog in what seems a very professional operation.

[Pitman]

Thanks for the kind words chief 

I have no intention of discussing your post other than to say as per usual you have taken it negatively

Goodbye please remove me and ban me I’ve had enough of your shit

[JJ Flash]

32 minutes ago, Pitman said:

Goodbye please remove me and ban me I’ve had enough of your shit

You join the list of intelligent posters who have put the white flag up on here . Sad but true

Edited May 27, 2021 by JJ Flash

[theshu]

Couldn't agree wth you more Pitty. Why is this person forever having a go at you?. Jealousy perhaps. Here they have one of the leading  and most successful horse trainers on site here and all he cops is abuse. Also i am out as well.please close my membership.