End To Greyhound Racing Petition

[Yankiwi]

Seems Aaron & Safe have been busy.

 

I'm told that Chloe & Co are presenting the now closed petition to Parliament today with more than 37k signatures on it.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/petitions/document/PET_101334/petition-of-aaron-cross-for-the-greyhound-protection-league

 

Interesting that it coincides with the time the Ministerial Review is due to be submitted to parliament.

[Yankiwi]

https://www.facebook.com/events/3216784835268690/

[Goldstar]

Are all these people who signed this in nz. I doubt it.  On line petition that ca be signed from anywhere in the world. 

57 people said they were going  probably 5-6 actually went 

245 interested 

not many from a country of 5 million 

last time I was in wanganui they had a protest. 2 old ladies hiding behind their masks. 
 

[crosscoded]

Forget about the report, forget about the petition, forget about the anti's - The greyhound industry in NZ will cause its own demise due to apathetic participants and ineffective leadership. The fact that the participants cant galvanize and would rather tear each other down is a reflection of an industry that's sole focus is on self interest. Self interest negates the ability to think about the bigger picture and what is best for the sport.

The sport has had  a succession of ineffective, weak CEO's/GM's who have treated the position as an opportunity to improve their CV's. They neither have had the courage or desire to make the changes necessary and when the going gets tough they bury their head's in the sand or look for greener pastures. The code has some wonderful stories that are never heard, there is no one willing to stand up for the sport and educate those who's only knowledge is driven by those who want to see the sport discontinued.

If it isn't too late the only way forward for the code is a complete change up of the board and senior leadership team. The code needs passionate, driven professionals who have knowledge of the sport, no significant vested interest (to negate conflicts of interest) and understand what is required to slow or stop the rot, refocus and move the industry forward. 

All decisions regarding the code need to be made from a welfare perspective including population numbers, sustainability, track surfaces/types and the best people need to be put in decision making positions. The code needs to be able to provide a concise framework under which it can operate and hold itself to account when it falls short. 

Its not an easy job but its a vision and insight as to what is required to obtain a social license - the real shame is that no-one that is employed to execute this vision can see that this  is what's required.    

[aquaman]

Excellent post crosscoded, absolutely right.

[Yankiwi]

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/greyhound-deaths-put-nz-racing-on-notice/ar-AAMXc2j?ocid=msedgntp

[Yankiwi]

8 hours ago, crosscoded said:

Forget about the report, forget about the petition, forget about the anti's....   

All spot on.

Excellent post.

Just think back to the pictures of the poodle & the hare & what came of them in the end. That sums up the same story....

[Chief Stipe]

31 minutes ago, Yankiwi said:

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/greyhound-deaths-put-nz-racing-on-notice/ar-AAMXc2j?ocid=msedgntp

You can't expect zero deaths so how many is acceptable from over 5,500 races?

If they ban Greyhound racing I imagine there will be a lot of deaths!

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, Yankiwi said:

Just think back to the pictures of the poodle & the hare & what came of them in the end. That sums up the same story....

Well if the SPCA couldn't do anything what chance did GRNZ?

I imagine you will be happy @Yankiwi if Greyhound racing is banned in NZ as you don't seem to often promote any of the positives of the sport.

[Yankiwi]

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You can't expect zero deaths so how many is acceptable from over 5,500 races?

If they ban Greyhound racing I imagine there will be a lot of deaths!

You can argue this with the reporter, I merely posted a link to the story.

[Yankiwi]

11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well if the SPCA couldn't do anything what chance did GRNZ?

I imagine you will be happy @Yankiwi if Greyhound racing is banned in NZ as you don't seem to often promote any of the positives of the sport.

GRNZ had no chance. The RIU did have as a case before the JCA only had to prove it was more likely than not. Also the RIU could prosecute for dead baiting, equally against the rules.

Imagine whatever you'd like about me.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Yankiwi

[Chief Stipe]

4 minutes ago, Yankiwi said:

GRNZ had no chance. The RIU did have as a case before the JCA only had to prove it was more likely than not. Also the RIU could prosecute for dead baiting, equally against the rules.

Imagine whatever you'd like about me.

So any blame should lie at the feet of the Racing Judiciary NOT GRNZ.

I was just pointing out that you don't seem to be very supportive of the industry you supposedly support.

You are similar to @Thomass (he is still going on about stuff that happened 20 years ago!) and @the galah in that you constantly repost stuff that has been done and dusted and nothing can be done to revisit those events or change their outcomes i.e. the best that can be done is to move on and put systems in place that limit the chance of it happening again.  What do you propose should be done in that respect?

Although it is possibly too late to make any changes as Greyhound Racing looks like it will be nailed by this Government which means the activists will move to the next target which will probably be Harness Racing.

[Chief Stipe]

12 minutes ago, Yankiwi said:

You can argue this with the reporter, I merely posted a link to the story.

Well what is your opinion on the article?  What are an acceptable number of deaths per year in Greyhound Racing given that it is nigh on impossible for there to be ZERO.

[Yankiwi]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

You are similar to @Thomass (he is still going on about stuff that happened 20 years ago!)

I don't go on about things that did happen, I go about what did not happen after what was actually done.

 

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

What do you propose should be done in that respect?

GRNZ rules should be enforced the way they are written and equally among all participants (IE meth, 24 month, 14 month, 4 month originally).

 

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

the activists will move to the next target which will probably be Harness Racing.

They sure will. I'm not a follower of either of the horse code but as an outsider looking in whip rules need sorting.

A fine from the judiciary is meant to be a deterrent to future same/similar rule infractions. How's the current system going on that front?

https://racingintegrityboard.org.nz/search-decisions/

31 infractions since the RIB took over (5 weeks) - Somethings wrong... 

[Yankiwi]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well what is your opinion on the article?  What are an acceptable number of deaths per year in Greyhound Racing given that it is nigh on impossible for there to be ZERO.

Zero is unachievable. 

What would be better is for GRNZ being honest with how many dogs are put down. The numbers in the GRNZ Independent Review are fudged. The only reason the numbers appear to be coming down is they way deaths are recorded. GRNZ began a new policy to not put down dogs at the track unless absolutely necessary (that way they can hide the true figures as they weren't "put down at the track".

Here's an exercise for you @Chief Stipe, go HERE and type "bigtime" in the search box, then click search. Any dog that comes up that does not have a "trainer name" listed beside it has been retired.

If "bigtime" doesn't raise an eyebrow try "big time" (the same kennels new "prefix"). Then maybe try "homebush" after those two...

Count how many dogs fit in to the retired category & then research the total numbers of greyhounds that have been rehomed by all of the rehoming agency's combined since their inceptions.

"Bigtime & Homebush" are just two of the domestic breeders & not the only naming prefix's used by them.

Also, Bigtime & Homebush dog were extremely rarely seen among the dogs names on the rehoming sites, when they used to list the racing name on them...

Any wonder why they stopped providing the racing names on them?

Edited August 5, 2021 by Yankiwi

[Mischief managed]

2 hours ago, Yankiwi said:

GRNZ began a new policy to not put down dogs at the track unless absolutely necessary (that way they can hide the true figures as they weren't "put down at the track".

 

 

With the new rehab to rehome scheme this is not the case.

[Chief Stipe]

12 hours ago, Yankiwi said:

Zero is unachievable. 

What would be better is for GRNZ being honest with how many dogs are put down. The numbers in the GRNZ Independent Review are fudged. The only reason the numbers appear to be coming down is they way deaths are recorded. GRNZ began a new policy to not put down dogs at the track unless absolutely necessary (that way they can hide the true figures as they weren't "put down at the track".

Here's an exercise for you @Chief Stipe, go HERE and type "bigtime" in the search box, then click search. Any dog that comes up that does not have a "trainer name" listed beside it has been retired.

If "bigtime" doesn't raise an eyebrow try "big time" (the same kennels new "prefix"). Then maybe try "homebush" after those two...

Count how many dogs fit in to the retired category & then research the total numbers of greyhounds that have been rehomed by all of the rehoming agency's combined since their inceptions.

"Bigtime & Homebush" are just two of the domestic breeders & not the only naming prefix's used by them.

Also, Bigtime & Homebush dog were extremely rarely seen among the dogs names on the rehoming sites, when they used to list the racing name on them...

Any wonder why they stopped providing the racing names on them?

So ontrack deaths isn't the issue even though the link you posted focuses on that.  Your issue is the number of dogs bred that are selectively culled I guess akin to the bobby calf industry.

So what do YOU suggest should be done to fix that issue?  Are there rules in place that are not being adhered to or simply there aren't controls?

[Yankiwi]

14 hours ago, Mischief managed said:

With the new rehab to rehome scheme this is not the case.

The proof of that scheme will be in the pudding. Yes they patch them up at the track & I believe GRNZ now funds the vet costs to get a serious injury (broken leg or the like) repaired.

So if "Big Time Whatever" or  "Homebush Whatever" have a fracture at Wanganui tonight? GRNZ will cover the cost to get the fracture repaired. But as the Big Time & Homebush kennels are widely known for not rehoming their dogs after they've been retired, what will be gained with the outlay of thousands of dollars?

Is it just window dressing & to give the protestors one less name for their sign at the next SAFE or GPL demonstration in some cases?

What about a pup or a race dog that breaks a leg at the kennels paddock or bullring while training at home? Are GRNZ forking out for those bills as well? I do not know the answer to that question, but I know where my bet would be placed.

The current measures have been put into place to severely limit the numbers of race dogs put down at the track on a raceday. That's where euthanasia's are openly recorded & viewable to the general public.

[Chief Stipe]

14 minutes ago, Yankiwi said:

The proof of that scheme will be in the pudding. Yes they patch them up at the track & I believe GRNZ now funds the vet costs to get a serious injury (broken leg or the like) repaired.

So if "Big Time Whatever" or  "Homebush Whatever" have a fracture at Wanganui tonight? GRNZ will cover the cost to get the fracture repaired. But as the Big Time & Homebush kennels are widely known for not rehoming their dogs after they've been retired, what will be gained with the outlay of thousands of dollars?

Is it just window dressing & to give the protestors one less name for their sign at the next SAFE or GPL demonstration in some cases?

What about a pup or a race dog that breaks a leg at the kennels paddock or bullring while training at home? Are GRNZ forking out for those bills as well? I do not know the answer to that question, but I know where my bet would be placed.

The current measures have been put into place to severely limit the numbers of race dogs put down at the track on a raceday. That's where euthanasia's are openly recorded & viewable to the general public.

So what's YOUR solution?  Pet owners make decisions every day of the week about the cost of saving their dog versus euthanasing it.

[A Dogs Life]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

So what's YOUR solution?  Pet owners make decisions every day of the week about the cost of saving their dog versus euthanasing it.

Their is no magic number as to what are acceptable number of deaths as crashes happen, but GRNZ's move to fix all broken dogs possible, then send to re-homing is a huge plus.

As long as the tracks are prepared to a high standard and consistent  every time (which hasn't been happening) everything possible is been done.

Your right, pet owners will either spend to save their pet or euthanize.

Then you get the issue of the thousands of dogs that end up in council pounds and spca, the result is thousands are euthanized but Safe is ok with all these deaths, they just keep banging on at the Greyhounds.

If they were to shut down the Greyhound racing the question is how many thousands of Greyhounds will end up euthanized? they haven't mentioned that.

 

 

 

[Yankiwi]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So what's YOUR solution?  Pet owners make decisions every day of the week about the cost of saving their dog versus euthanasing it.

My argument isn't against saving a dog with a seriously broken leg, it is about putting down perfectly fit & healthy dogs simply at the "request" of a trainer or owner. A simple "tick" box on a form should not be justification for putting a dog down.

https://www.grnz.co.nz/Files/June 2021/Veterinarian Certification of Death 1 May 2021.pdf

I mean really, a trainer or owner have a self serving tick box on the form & they are not even required to give a reason. However, if it's done so because it's the Vets recommendation, GRNZ wants to know why.

Why can't it be mandatory that EVERY registered (either current or formally) dog that doesn't have a very serious injury or other serious illness be accessed by an organization (GAP or the like) prior to authorization be given by GRNZ to euthanize?

Wouldn't that be considered proactive towards animal welfare instead of being reactive when the death certs pile in like they are now & have been for many years?

GRNZ doesn't want any dogs put down at the track on a raceday because of the way it is recorded. 

If you don't believe that, then please explain to me why you believe the criteria is so much more lucrative & hurdle free away from the track?

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Yankiwi

[Yankiwi]

On 6/08/2021 at 3:29 PM, Chief Stipe said:

So what's YOUR solution?  Pet owners make decisions every day of the week about the cost of saving their dog versus euthanasing it.

Well I suggested my solution to your questioning & the thread died there....

 

When can I expect my Brodster Prize (BOAY's version of the Nobel Prize) for being "On The Money" @Chief Stipe

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/450619/greyhound-racing-industry-on-notice-over-transparency-animal-welfare-minister

 

Animal welfare concerns

The review also found that while the number of greyhounds euthanised had reduced significantly in the past four years, 'no reason given' was "the most common reason by a significant margin".

While progress had been made on rehoming, many dogs were not suitable due to their behaviour and a lack of socialisation, and had been criticised as an "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" measure.

[racinggreys]

56 minutes ago, Yankiwi said:

Well I suggested my solution to your questioning & the thread died there....

 

When can I expect my Brodster Prize (BOAY's version of the Nobel Prize) for being "On The Money" @Chief Stipe

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/450619/greyhound-racing-industry-on-notice-over-transparency-animal-welfare-minister

 

Animal welfare concerns

The review also found that while the number of greyhounds euthanised had reduced significantly in the past four years, 'no reason given' was "the most common reason by a significant margin".

While progress had been made on rehoming, many dogs were not suitable due to their behaviour and a lack of socialisation, and had been criticised as an "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" measure.

Shes got this...............

Greyhound Racing New Zealand Accept Recommendations in Review

We share the Government’s determination to ensure animal care is our priority and our community will continue to focus on the well-being of our dogs. We will cement in the continued gains made under the new management.

We will work assiduously with the RIB and government to ensure that our processes will deliver on the shared goal of excellence in animal care and transparency of information. We accept that these processes will need to be maintained over the longer term to provide the appropriate reassurance. Despite this we may continue to face criticism raised by anti-racing groups. We do respect and always will respect the social licence we have been granted.

Our revised management team have already put in place more new policies and reporting mechanisms which have enabled us to achieve the current improvements. As one of the most regulated sectors of the animal population in New Zealand with the comprehensive data we now have we are more than happy and ready to comply with the recommendations in the report.

In relation to rehoming we are currently matching the number of dogs rehomed with those bred annually. We would like to acknowledge our rehoming partners for all the work they have done to assist us to achieve this goal, especially Nightrave which has worked closely with us to ensure the thorough socialisation of our dogs prior to adoption.

GRNZ wishes to provide a categorical assurance of our determination to work with the Minister, the RIB and the communities we serve to ensure high standards of animal care and access to verified and transparent data.

We must take issue with one aspect of the Minister’s Statement - we have provided an extensive and full submission and in no way have sought to obfuscate in any aspect of The Review or any other information we have been asked to provide. Our submission is available on our website as noted below.

Animal Care is a key priority for all of our team and our licenced persons, and we welcome the opportunity for independent oversight from the newly established Racing Integrity Board.

Our submission to the review is available on our website:

https://www.grnz.co.nz/.../Greyhound-Racing-Independent...

Any further information please contact:

Glenda Hughes

Glenda@grnz.co.nz

 

[Yankiwi]

1 hour ago, racinggreys said:

Shes got this...............

In relation to rehoming we are currently matching the number of dogs rehomed with those bred annually.

 

Huh?

1 dog (bitch) "bred" = multiple pups in almost all cases, right?

If this "Independant" report was meant to read "whelped" instead of "bred", then that would be saying that every dog born gets rehomed. That'd be pretty easy to prove as false...

She aint got shit. She's out of her depth, doesn't know what she's talking about & a burden on a potential future of the industry. Why hasn't anyone heard from her, until she HAD to say something?

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Yankiwi said:

If this "Independant" report was meant to read "whelped" instead of "bred", then that would be saying that every dog born gets rehomed. That'd be pretty easy to prove as false...

Are you suggesting that the only way for Greyhound Racing to continue is that ALL greyhounds born are rehomed after racing?

If that's the case your sport is stuffed.