Jacinda Ardern

[hesi]

Well I started a thread last year on RC, before I got cyber cleansed, let's try on here.

The Princess is back in a week and a half.

Please, if you could indulge me, don't copy and paste other people's opinions, would like to know what you think

[The Diceman's Been]

I have a thought I would relay:

[mumbles]

17 hours ago, hesi said:

Well I started a thread last year on RC, before I got cyber cleansed, let's try on here.

The Princess is back in a week and a half.

Please, if you could indulge me, don't copy and paste other people's opinions, would like to know what you think

Overated and her performance so far,underwhelming.

Plenty of conversations but no results.Talk fest so far.

[Gavin]

I rate her highly. 

Can't recall a NZ PM that has been subjected to so much ridicule, misrepresentations and very deliberate divisive undermining as Ardern has been. Much of it from those who feel shafted by the election outcome. If it's not her appearance people are having a crack at, it's her part time job she had as a teenage girl. Both out of order and irrelevant in my book as are the ongoing references to her having a child out of wedlock. Big flashy deal. It's 2018. Why does being married matter? You don't need a piece of paper or a church to make a commitment to your partner. 

I sincerely believe punters who attack her leadership skills, have no real understanding about leadership. Her first major achievement was the election campaign. 7 weeks out from election day, Labour were at 100-1 and drifting. The National Party were desperate for a fourth term but in the luxurious position of being able to sleepwalk back into Government. What Ardern achieved was unprecedented in NZ Politics. Anyone capable of doing what Ardern did in 7 weeks, is well capable of being PM. What's more, she even had the death of her grandmother four days from the election to add even more challenge to an almost impossible task.

I compare it to doing a dozen post graduate exams at the same time. Very few could ever do that. I don't know how she was able to function. Remarkable.

For the last 9 months she's led a three party coalition full of interesting characters. The potential for major meltdowns is huge, yet she's created a stable Government and done so while being attacked,misrepresented and ridiculed every step of the way since day 1. They have set themselves some very lofty goals and from my seat, they appear to be ticking them off the list nicely. Will reserve my final judgment for mid 2020, when they will have had long enough to implement their vision and see the results.

Their July 1st package was big and helped many New Zealanders. Most of whom had been forgotten about for the previous decade. I don't agree that the first year free at Uni is about helping rich kids become lawyers as Bill English asserted. It's about investing in NZ's future and giving a leg up to all those who want to be achievers but often find the first year at Uni a deal breaker.   

The thing I like most about Ardern has nothing to do with policy. It's her passionate and caring personality. She very obviously cares deeply about all New Zealanders, not just the ones who vote for her party. That has largely been awol for the last decade.

I have never witnessed a decade in my 50+ year life where I've noticed so many young people growing up feeling they are living in a country that couldn't possibly care less about them. That is an accident waiting to happen. I see this and many other indicators of what happens when you incessantly put dollars before people. That balance is now being redressed and not a moment too soon in my opinion.  

Edited July 27, 2018 by Gavin

[hesi]

You are putting up some great posts Gavin.

You seem to have a way of writing that encapsulates the issues perfectly, and I'm not just talking about this subject, but also your views on RC and BOAY

[The Diceman's Been]

Gav, love to sit down and have a chat at the track one day.

I disagree with you on nearly every point you made. We obviously have different backgrounds and upbringings on why that it.

Make for an interesting discussion.

Cheers

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, The Diceman's Been said:

Gav, love to sit down and have a chat at the track one day.

I disagree with you on nearly every point you made. We obviously have different backgrounds and upbringings on why that it.

Make for an interesting discussion.

Cheers

Morning Diceman,

I have no issue with you disagreeing with my perspective. I also commend you for being respectful with that. I've been disappointed at the level of vitriol on blogs directed at anyone who has the audacity to support Ardern. They are invariably described as intellectually challenged cult members...and then some.

My background is best described as colourful. University educated,business owner who's just as comfortable having a single malt with CEO's as I am having a jar with the boys.

I am curious how you could disagree on nearly every point I made. Please elaborate?

I remember well the time of Robert Muldoon and Roger Douglas. The lines were clearly defined between them and us but what's occurring now is up several levels on that due in no small part to the internet. The deliberate divisiveness being created against Ardern and the Government is unprecedented to my eye. It seems there is delight at business confidence dropping as that contributes to the water on a stone campaign that has been turned into a firehose on a stone campaign regardless if that hurts our country. As long as it achieves the goal of undermining the Government, that's all that matters.

I'm confident you agree that the level of personal abuse and ridicule directed at Ardern and even her partner has been relentless. When the Police have to step in and clarify the partner is not and has not been the subject of a criminal investigation, you know something is rotten in Denmark. Since when has that been the kiwi way of getting the job done? Four days prior to the election, Ardern was described as "the kind of low life who will exploit the death of her grandmother to get votes". Really? That's not the NZ I grew up in and want to leave behind for my kids and grandkids. What happened to the NZ that ran Telethons to show they care for other kiwis doing it hard?  When someone loses a family pet, we sympathize and empathize. Not with Ardern. Her critics were scathing with their abuse when her cat was run over and killed outside her home. Whats that about? I think she's an attractive lady. I accept her teeth are prominent but that is absolutely no justification for the incessant equine references directed at her. I personally couldn't give a rats arse if she's married to her partner or not. It's none of my far king business. The commitment we make to our partner is very personal. We have evolved as a society to a point where same sex marriage is now acceptable. One of my life heroes is Alan Turing. This man helped save the lives of between 14 to 21 million people. Didn't prevent him being charged with gross indecency for being a "Gaylord"

 https://paidpost.nytimes.com/the-weinstein-company/world-war-iis-greatest-hero-the-true-story-of-alan-turing.html

I'm incredulous toward the targeting of Ardern for scathing ridicule due to her having a baby in 2018 outside of wedlock and the subsequent bastardisation of her baby daughter. Perplexing to me how any decent person regardless of political persuasion, could condone the vile directed at Ardern. Ok, she's a politician, but she's also our PM, a human being and a woman. We live in PC times where much to my frustration at times, you can't say this or that, but somehow subjecting our female PM to a very personal unprecedented contemptuous  campaign is now deemed acceptable / reasonable. Disagree with her politics by all means, but do so with decency. 

 

[mumbles]

Lets not forget that Key including his son Max  and his daughter were also subject to the same type of vitriol.Supporters of Key were labelled as a certain type of person.

Remember when Tony Blairs wife announced she was having a child while Blair was PM.The things people said were shocking to say the least.

However if your gunna go for public office,like it or not you become a target and Adern is no exception and nor should she.

She said things pre election that will come back to haunt her just like every other poli.

I will give one example...she said that she was going to legislate against poverty,say what.

Edited July 27, 2018 by mumbles

[Gavin]

1 hour ago, mumbles said:

Lets not forget that Key including his son Max  and his daughter were also subject to the same type of vitriol.Supporters of Key were labelled as a certain type of person.

Remember when Tony Blairs wife announced she was having a child while Blair was PM.The things people said were shocking to say the least.

However if your gunna go for public office,like it or not you become a target and Adern is no exception and nor should she.

She said things pre election that will come back to haunt her just like every other poli.

I will give one example...she said that she was going to legislate against poverty,say what.

Can't agree with you.

When I was a boy in primary school, it was common to justify the calling of names by stating bla bla bla said it first. That aside, the whole Max Key etc situation is not comparing apples with apples. He for example, courted media attention incessantly and set himself up as a young man with very strong opinions who was an enormous fan...of himself. He would have attracted attention regardless of who his father is. That aside, I don't condone comments directed at him and his sister over certain photos.

What you're talking about with Ardern is a completely different ballgame. Anyone who says they are the same levels of personal abuse is displaying at the very least, a high level of bias. What's been directed at Ardern has been relentless. It's completely bereft of any respect whatsoever and is very personal. It's also unprecedented on this scale in NZ Politics.

 I also disagree that putting yourself in the frame of public office should explain the level of abuse directed at Ardern or anyone else. I come from an old school where only people deserving of personal abuse, should be subjected to it. People such as the vermin that participate in home invasions on the vulnerable elderly or the scum who hurt and exploit children. Females with a strong social conscience who are always respectful of others should be exempt from such personal abuse.

Bottom line is, the people who target Ardern, will always justify doing so. 

I very deliberately avoid engaging on your contention about legislating against poverty. Mostly due to my not wanting to discuss the colour of the letterbox while the house in the background is engulfed in flames. I will say this however. I have not in my lifetime, seen another PM more passionate about stamping out poverty than Ardern.

Also not a big fan of discussing what was said at the last election as it only brings back into focus the subject of dirty politics. A term that really only came into view during the previous Governments time in office.

The tactics employed by Joyce etc against Winston Peters was a new low as was his dead cat on the table. Rather than discuss National's record in health,education,crime,immigration and of course housing, the attention was all directed at the alleged fiscal hole. A hole that not one financial advisor in NZ agreed with.

If we were in early 2020, and punters were ridiculing the Governments first term, I would be on board with those critiques should they be accurate and justified. The fact that campaign of ridiculing Government policy etc started the very day Ardern took office, speaks volumes about the true motivation and validity of it. 

[hesi]

Interesting that you picked up on the dead cat on the table technique.

 

[The Diceman's Been]

"What you're talking about with Ardern is a completely different ballgame. Anyone who says they are the same levels of personal abuse is displaying at the very least, a high level of bias. What's been directed at Ardern has been relentless. It's completely bereft of any respect whatsoever and is very personal. It's also unprecedented on this scale in NZ Politics."

 

Its been deserved and to be fair, mild. Everything you have written has BIAS ALL OVER IT.

You must be related.

She is a hypocrite, a true dirtbag of communist proportions, shallow, to the point of flaunting her so called principles of poverty, happy to be manipulated and quite frankly, just plain dumb.

She is an embarrassment to politics, but hey Gavin, a media star in the girlie magazines.

And as for the powder sniffing First Lady, well there are enough credible people who know more than both you and I do on that. The fact that she and her string pullers had to manipulate the Police to deny anything was pathetic. It reinforced what was already common knowledge. The guy has history. 

You have a gift for persuasion Gavin, but not for pulling the wool.

 

 

[Gavin]

11 minutes ago, hesi said:

Interesting that you picked up on the dead cat on the table technique.

 

Hey hesi,

Appreciate your kind words previously. We are sailing on the same ship my friend.

The election has mixed memories. Some very funny moments but often just frustrating diversions. Our media is no longer to be trusted. Full of vested interest and egotistical types that have forgotten what news is about.  It's now often just bias opinion pieces masquerading as news.

When Ms Ardern was elected Labour leader, i thought yes, finally we will have a good opposition led by a good leader. They'd had 9 years of ineffective / inadequate male leaders well past their use by date. Unsure who was worse. Phil well past his use by date Goff, David sorry for being a man Cunliffe or Andrew should have stood down 18 months before he finally did Little.

I didn't think Labour had a realistic chance of becoming Government in 2017.  Then something remarkable and unprecedented occurred. Ardern started connecting with people and Labour supporters in hibernation, finally had some hope. Donations came pouring in. I sincerely believe that John Key was largely so popular because there was simply no alternative. Not in the red corner anyway. 

I was hoping the election would have been fought over what was happening in NZ. The diabolical state of housing, health and floodgate immigration topped that list. Instead it became a farce. A well organised campaign against the blood e water tax, misrepresentations about tax cuts and Joyce's dead cat on the table. At the time he orchestrated that, Labour had remarkably gone ahead in the polls and all the momentum was theirs. I believed they were right on target to govern. Then it became defend defend defend. Bias commentators said Labour ran out of puff but I don't accept that. They were derailed by an underhanded campaign which is what National do best.

Bill English strikes me as a decent man but he is most definitely not a natural apex type leader. More a stop gap steady as she goes type. I thought the last televised leaders debate chaired by Hosking was very telling. Bill was brutally exposed. Wouldn't look at the camera. Seemed to have run out of narrative apart from "strong stable Government". Jacinda ran rings around him. The only time Bill woke up and looked at the camera was when it came time for the closing speech. Then out came the well rehearsed strong stable Government bla bla bla. I thought if that was a boxing match, it was a knock out victory to Ardern. I read the reports on it the next day and alleged experts described it as a draw or narrow victory to English. Really? On what planet? The planet where zero leadership and debating skills rule.

Bill's election night performance was also farcical. He came out throwing his arms in the air celebrating National's alleged victory. They even dropped the victory balloons from the ceiling. Comedy show . The actual result under MMP was a worse case scenario for National. Their support parties gone and now needing Winston Peters (the man they tried to destroy) to get back into Government. Bill's speech was one of the worst political speeches I've witnessed. It had clearly been at least written by someone other than English who was unfamiliar with it's content. I've made hundreds of speeches over the years and English broke just about every rule in the book with that speech. You need punters to believe they are your words and they are genuine. What you got instead was English looking confused and referring to the speech text every few seconds and often with sustained looks. It was insincere and farcical. An obvious attempt to hoodwink that they had won and put pressure on NZF to choose National. Thankfully, NZF saw straight through it.

A big part of the problem is National's assertion that they won but were robbed. They got exactly what they deserved. Sent packing under MMP because they had no friends. Their support parties gone and their own arrogance shot themselves in both feet. They should have seen the writing on the wall and courted Peters. Instead they arrogantly believed they wouldn't need him so tried to destroy him. How did that work out? Interesting that the man who steered that ship has now gone but National's arrogance is still up in lights. They believe they will either govern alone in 2020, or NZF will be gone and parties that don't even exist yet and won't take National votes, will be their new friends. Seems they have learned nothing.

I will make this prediction. National will never be the Government again until they have a female leader. Bridges has no hope of ever being PM. He will be gone by December 2020 when National finally accept he's not the right person to lead National. 

  

[Gavin]

38 minutes ago, The Diceman's Been said:

"What you're talking about with Ardern is a completely different ballgame. Anyone who says they are the same levels of personal abuse is displaying at the very least, a high level of bias. What's been directed at Ardern has been relentless. It's completely bereft of any respect whatsoever and is very personal. It's also unprecedented on this scale in NZ Politics."

 

Its been deserved and to be fair, mild. Everything you have written has BIAS ALL OVER IT.

You must be related.

She is a hypocrite, a true dirtbag of communist proportions, shallow, to the point of flaunting her so called principles of poverty, happy to be manipulated and quite frankly, just plain dumb.

She is an embarrassment to politics, but hey Gavin, a media star in the girlie magazines.

And as for the powder sniffing First Lady, well there are enough credible people who know more than both you and I do on that. The fact that she and her string pullers had to manipulate the Police to deny anything was pathetic. It reinforced what was already common knowledge. The guy has history. 

You have a gift for persuasion Gavin, but not for pulling the wool.

 

 

I made the error of believing differing perspectives could be expressed here respectfully. I won't make that error with you again. There is arrogant contempt all through your input and very typical of a National Party cheerleader who feels anyone who has the audacity to support Ardern is either a girlie magazine reading cult member or has had their cheese slide off their cracker. 

There is another possibility. That being you're actually wrong about Ardern and those who support her. God forbid.

Anyone who thinks the very personal abuse directed at Ardern is deserved, fair and mild, won't get another moment of my time.  

[hesi]

Nats have topped off at 44%, and have no friends, so they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

All those that said Peters would devour Ardern got it wrong.  He seems to have respect for her.

I've voted Nats all my life, then the cheese slid off the cracker and I went for Ardern.

Those 56% who didn't vote for the Nats, probably a lot of lower to middle class NZ'ers in there, that thought to themselves, what booming economy, we've got to work hard just to stand still.  You know all those people, the ones that make NZ tick, you see them every day, driving trucks, clerical workers, the ones that keep your power on, your phone connected, the roads open etc etc

When I was mid 20's, I had a reasonable job, I could buy a house in Balmoral on just my income.

I have a son, mid 20's, works hard, reasonable income, fiancee the same, group of friends the same, all work, but no expectation they could actually own their own home, 160K deposit, $3,500 a month mortgage repayments for 30 years, no thanks.

They had a good chance at 400-500K for a house, but not 800k- million, the bar has been raised too high for most.

And we've rented too, and got moved on twice, 42 days and 80 days notice, because we were at the whim of the landlords plans, no thanks again, many don't have a choice.

Good to see you have an opinion Gavin, and don't copy and paste off Whaleoil, ad nauseum

[Gavin]

5 hours ago, hesi said:

Nats have topped off at 44%, and have no friends, so they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

All those that said Peters would devour Ardern got it wrong.  He seems to have respect for her.

I've voted Nats all my life, then the cheese slid off the cracker and I went for Ardern.

Those 56% who didn't vote for the Nats, probably a lot of lower to middle class NZ'ers in there, that thought to themselves, what booming economy, we've got to work hard just to stand still.  You know all those people, the ones that make NZ tick, you see them every day, driving trucks, clerical workers, the ones that keep your power on, your phone connected, the roads open etc etc

When I was mid 20's, I had a reasonable job, I could buy a house in Balmoral on just my income.

I have a son, mid 20's, works hard, reasonable income, fiancee the same, group of friends the same, all work, but no expectation they could actually own their own home, 160K deposit, $3,500 a month mortgage repayments for 30 years, no thanks.

They had a good chance at 400-500K for a house, but not 800k- million, the bar has been raised too high for most.

And we've rented too, and got moved on twice, 42 days and 80 days notice, because we were at the whim of the landlords plans, no thanks again, many don't have a choice.

Good to see you have an opinion Gavin, and don't copy and paste off Whaleoil, ad nauseum

Morning Hesi,

Excellent post.

The face of politics in our beautiful country has changed forever. National steered that change where selfish greed is good and anyone who is not on board with you is the enemy to be targeted and ridiculed via whatever underhanded method they feel the need to adopt.  Gordon Gekko would be proud. When a person such as Ardern is seen as a legitimate target for outrageous personal abuse and ridicule, you know something has gone badly wrong. When that vile abuse is deemed reasonable and justified, you start to fear for the country that will be left for our children and grandchildren.

If our Government was as diabolically bad as the National Party cheerleaders incessantly maintain,  surely that is great news for them. Not only will it result in their heroes being back in office in 2020 or sooner, but it will almost certainly result in Labour not being seen as a reasonable option for many years to come.  If that is logical and correct, then why not just sit back smugly and wait? Why do they need to hit everyone over the head with how wonderful National are and how diabolical Labour are? The math don't work.  

I'm not a fan of Gareth Morgan. That's as polite and respectful as I can be on that score. He did however get one thing right when he said selfish voting was rampant in 2017. What's good for me rather than what's good for our country. That is the National Party ethos.

I find the level of anti directed at the Labour Party by highly motivated hero worshiping National Party supporters perplexing. Why are they so motivated with their scathing comments? It can't possibly be because they care more about NZ than everyone else. If they did, they would have owned how diabolical the housing crisis has been for so many young NZ families. Their heroes displayed routine denial and indifference toward fellow Kiwi's in this area so are they just following that lead? I don't recall reading one comment from them over the last decade about our deteriorating health system that was very obviously negatively impacting on more and more New Zealanders. The nurses have been stressing the woefully inadequate safe staffing levels to Jonathan Coleman for the entire time he was NZ's worst ever Health Minister. He wasn't remotely interested. All he was interested in was $$. The people involved can go whistle. Where have the National Party cheerleaders been while this was happening? Smugly holding their health insurance policy while watching their own investment portfolio increasing off the backs of others misfortune? I'm alright Jack, how are you? 

How could anyone condone the record levels of immigration that was drowning already struggling infrastructure? Why open the floodgates and keep them open when there is already a housing crisis and traffic woefully backed up everyday on our motorways? What was the plan to resolve this? Even more record immigration.  Mercilessly, Winston Peters and NZF stopped the bleeding on October 19th when they chose Labour.

Every move the new Government has made to address the aforementioned mess has been ridiculed and undermined by National and their supporters. More than just a little ironic.

So what happens in 2020, when Labour is returned to Government with a higher % of the vote? Were National and their cheerleaders totally wrong? Has their divisive campaign been a complete fail? or will they keep saying it's the appeal of Ardern's baby and the gullibility / ignorance of NZ voters? Surely if they are correct in their scathing contempt for Ardern, National will enjoy a record landslide victory at the polls in 2020? Anything less will highlight a very long list of negatives alongside National and sink them further from NZ voters.

As for Cameron Slater. His style of politics resides in the gutter. Anyone who quotes his links or copies his divisive narrative is showing where their politics reside. Very telling that Bridges would like his input...oh wait a minute, that was just a wandering finger / thumb that he had no control over. For the record, the other one plays Jingle Bells.

    

[JackM]

On 29/07/2018 at 7:30 AM, Gavin said:

How could anyone condone the record levels of immigration that was drowning already struggling infrastructure? Why open the floodgates and keep them open when there is already a housing crisis and traffic woefully backed up everyday on our motorways? What was the plan to resolve this? Even more record immigration.  Mercilessly, Winston Peters and NZF stopped the bleeding on October 19th when they chose Labour.

   

.... Immigration was deemed as National Party`s new strategy for registering likely voter`s and financial supporters to their party!

[hesi]

[mumbles]

21 hours ago, hesi said:

Thats settled then.The AllBlacks will become Govt employees.

[hesi]

You have to admit, the smile is natural and infectious, nothing posed here

[mumbles]

Politician are actors,and all full of b/s thats why they have PR people and media coaches.

[Kopia]

Speaking of bullshit mumbles...looks like Ardern is not averse to the odd ' lie', 'mispoke' etc etc....on the radion this morning ( Friday) she said she had full confidence in the liar Curren and she would stay in her ministerial role.... ALL THE TIME SHE KNEW THAT LAST NIGHT THAT CURREN HAD RESIGNED...AND ARDERN HAD ACCEPTED HER RESIGNATION !?  LAST NIGHT !

Come in Tommooorulia...

[pete]

The wheels have fallen off.

Anyone who thinks the Princess is so cuddly and adorable should take a look at Parliament lately.

Snarling and defensive but still manages to say absolutely nothing.

Winnie the Pooh has her cards marked. Gone by Christmas.

[Gavin]

On 13/09/2018 at 4:15 PM, pete said:

The wheels have fallen off.

Anyone who thinks the Princess is so cuddly and adorable should take a look at Parliament lately.

Snarling and defensive but still manages to say absolutely nothing.

Winnie the Pooh has her cards marked. Gone by Christmas.

Hey Pete,

I've seen more doom and gloom comments / predictions about our PM and Government over the last 12 months than in any other period along my life journey. The usual are the PM is out of her depth, has woeful leadership skills and the Government will be gone before Christmas, bla bla bla.

Important to see where those comments hail from to find perspective. The most common place are vested interest media commentators and unhappy National Party supporters still resentful at the election outcome. These same people sat there as quiet as church mice over the previous 9 years while NZ was changing forever in ways that negatively impacted hundreds of thousands of Kiwi's. They condone what National did despite the carnage it was creating for so many. The clear inference coming from them was that they and their ilk are doing just nicely thank you very much so everyone else can piss off and whistle. What I witnessed was a new divisive "them and us" being created where selfishness is encouraged. That was most definitely not the NZ I grew up in or want to leave behind for future generations. The most telling aspect of the anti Ardern campaign for my money is that it started the moment she became PM.

What personal qualifications do all these experts have in the area of leadership to give insight and any validity whatsoever to their relentless and incessant claim that Ardern is a woeful leader who's out of her depth? My contention is those claims come straight out of their arse. They will have little or no experience with leadership but are very comfortable to pass their expert judgment as if it was accepted fact. They wouldn't know if their arse was on fire. For most, their idea of a good leader is Bill English or Simon Bridges. Both National and both male. Try merging three competitive Rugby teams together with all the personalities and ambitions etc involved. Try managing that team for 12 months while you are being incessantly ridiculed and condemned every step of the way. Then come back and comment about leadership skills.  

The biggest disappointment on the political landscape for me over the last 12 months is the level of personal vitriol directed at Ardern. It's been relentless. Equine references to her appearance are common place. She's weak, she's a liar, she's incompetent, her name is routinely butchered etc etc etc. I'm genuinely shocked that wankers come out of the woodwork and start judging her morally for having a baby out of wedlock. FFS. Most of the comments fall into the area of online bullying / misogynistic abuse. I have never seen a NZ PM or any NZ female for that matter subjected to such cowardly personal abuse. The offenders all think they are being astute and or funny. In most cases, they are just being dickheads who need to go and have a long look at themselves.

NZ was in desperate need of a Government that valued all of it's people, not just the more fortunate ones and that's mercifully, what we have now. Our coalition Government is not perfect but they stopped the hemorrhaging and not a moment too soon. No longer is it acceptable to display indifference to the less fortunate, neglect basic infrastructure and allow / encourage that to worsen all the while denying there are major issues unfolding that were negatively impacting on more kiwis every week. If our present Government is not the answer, one thing for sure is that the previous Government sure as hell wasn't / isn't. 

[pete]

We'll have to agree to disagree Gavin. I can't for the life of me see anything they've done to 'stop the haemorraging'. They don't look like they have a clue what they're doing and have absolutely no coherent plan. I would go so far as to say that they thought they had no chance of actually being the government prior to the election.  They spent 9 years in opposition doing sweet fa and have been found out big time in the last year.

[Gavin]

Some of what you say is accurate Pete. They did football association when in opposition and were not expecting to be Government in 2017. None of that has diddly to do with Ardern. Look who has been leading Labour for the previous 9 years. Phil Goff who was already well past his use by date. Had 0 % hope of ever being PM. David Cunliffe (sorry for being a man) may well be a decent man but was a woefully inadequate leader. He inspired nobody and was never going to be PM if he lived 10 lifetimes. Labour supporters went into hibernation and virtually gave up hope of being in Government. John Key had a truckload of reasons to feel very smug. Then came Andrew Little. Should NEVER have been appointed leader. He never got out of the margin of error in the most preferred PM polls. At no point did he ever connect with Kiwis in his 30 months as leader. As long as he was Labour's leader, National were guaranteed reelection. The woefully inadequate males leading Labour helped John Key sleep easy. Andrew Little may well be an excellent politician but he has the charisma of a rotting fish. Should have stood down at least 18 months before he finally did. I assume Little felt he would eventually win because people would reject National and he would be the beneficiary.  Obviously a flawed plan despite it working numerous times previously. Interestingly, Little's own rating actually dropped when John Key stood down as PM. Very telling. Simon Bridges is National's version of Andrew Little.

I blame Andrew Little for Labour being a non contender. The moment he gave his hospital pass to Ardern was the same moment Labour supporters came out of hibernation. No wonder they were not expecting to be Government.

What Ardern achieved in the election campaign was unprecedented in NZ politics. It was the equivalent of hiking up Mt Everest with bare feet, wearing a blindfold while carrying a vacuum cleaner. I don't believe many people truly understand the enormity of the task she faced. I'm certain there are very few people in NZ who could ever achieve it. Truth is, if not for the well orchestrated water tax protests and Joyce's dead cat on the table, Labour would not have needed NZF to form a Government. Labour had actually taken the lead in the polls and all the momentum was theirs. 

I won't hear a word about Ardern not being a good leader and or being incompetent etc. Anyone who makes such claims is displaying a very high level of ignorance.  

We voted in MMP. Ardern is our PM via MMP.  She has a vision for NZ and has 3 years to bring it to fruition. If she fails, in 3 years she will rightfully be gifted the Spanish archer. All the bullshit of trying to undermine her every step of the way is extremely divisive and sucks a turd through a straw. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Gavin