Wrong Numbers - how can this happen?

[Reefton]

Just see the two Rae horses at Riccarton had the wrong number clothes. Everyone makes mistakes so no finger pointed at the stable BUT..........

The club is required to have someone checking brands and the stipes check the gear carried.  How the hell did those two pass those checks especially the first?  It is possible both horses carry identical gear but they won't have identical brands.

Before anyone brings up the Harris debacle at our joint those two horses had the correct numbers just wrong saddles so our checkers(both mates of mine both volunteers and both top blokes)made no mistake.

If anyone should be careful about horse ID it should be Riccarton given that was where the original Audible/De Montfort cockup occured.

While the two number clothes were changed horses stood in the gates.

And this the outfit Bernard and these people hold out as an example we should all aspire to????????

[Doomed]

I imagine everyone was still so excited coming off the high of the AWT opening. Probably why they forgot to water and came up with a good track as well.

[Freda]

For what its worth,  it sort of aligns with some if the barrier dramas we have had.

The barrier staff/starter can't and shouldn't be blamed for uneducated horses [ that is a topic for another thread ].

But, irrespective of the cause, there aren't enough staff to consistently deal with some of the issues that present..if there are several horses down for a delay and a man up, how many are left to deal with anything else?  not enough.

In this 'number' case, Reefton makes a good point about the volunteers at their races not making an error.  Good on them - but, I'm assuming that they weren't barrier staff as well. 

These guys aren't volunteers.  They are paid staff, one of which [ who, a friend of mine]  put his hand up and copped the blame.   But, he was also the starter's 2 .I.C, with other matters to deal with on the day.

Surely someone can be found to deal solely with this matter?

 

[Huey]

53 minutes ago, Freda said:

For what its worth,  it sort of aligns with some if the barrier dramas we have had.

The barrier staff/starter can't and shouldn't be blamed for uneducated horses [ that is a topic for another thread ].

But, irrespective of the cause, there aren't enough staff to consistently deal with some of the issues that present..if there are several horses down for a delay and a man up, how many are left to deal with anything else?  not enough.

In this 'number' case, Reefton makes a good point about the volunteers at their races not making an error.  Good on them - but, I'm assuming that they weren't barrier staff as well. 

These guys aren't volunteers.  They are paid staff, one of which [ who, a friend of mine]  put his hand up and copped the blame.   But, he was also the starter's 2 .I.C, with other matters to deal with on the day.

Surely someone can be found to deal solely with this matter?

 

Surely it falls firmly into the hands of the stipes on the day to make sure it all works, lack of staff obviously an issue but that's where some adjustments may need to be made.

Lack of experienced gate staff going to become an issue like the riders are in the industry, these sorts of things always going to become an issue with or without the influence of covid , this happens when you have an industry fixated on the trivial and incapable of delivering anything of substance in the actual operational side of things.

[The Centaur]

I watched the preliminaries and having seen Kaareraway several times before I couldn't work out why the horse was now a bay whereas I was certain it was a chestnut. Put it down to the sunlight playing havoc and actually backed the No.4 on the basis it looked different to what I thought it should look.

What I can't understand if the two horses were a completely different colour why didn't an observer pick up the discrepency in the parade ring.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

For what its worth,  it sort of aligns with some if the barrier dramas we have had.

The barrier staff/starter can't and shouldn't be blamed for uneducated horses [ that is a topic for another thread ].

But, irrespective of the cause, there aren't enough staff to consistently deal with some of the issues that present..if there are several horses down for a delay and a man up, how many are left to deal with anything else?  not enough.

In this 'number' case, Reefton makes a good point about the volunteers at their races not making an error.  Good on them - but, I'm assuming that they weren't barrier staff as well. 

These guys aren't volunteers.  They are paid staff, one of which [ who, a friend of mine]  put his hand up and copped the blame.   But, he was also the starter's 2 .I.C, with other matters to deal with on the day.

Surely someone can be found to deal solely with this matter?

 

Riccarton has a disproportionately large amount of industry money poured into it so why don't they ensure adequate numbers of gate staff?  The whole starting gates thing is a schmoozle in the country compared to (say) Aussie where regardless of the number of gate staff they do not seem to have the reluctant horses NZ does.  I remember that bloody Kawi wandering around behind the gates for 2-3 minutes in G1s while others(like Consensus) stood there. Happened time and time and time again.   It would not be allowed in Aussie so why here?  Ditto barrier blankets - barrier blanket horses should go in first and so should known reluctant loaders so horses prepared to cooperate are not forced to stand there for extended periods.  One notable stable in particular uses barrier blankets all the time to get favours in terms of late loading(I think it used to be worse a few years ago to be fair).  Stop the late loading advantage and the use of barrier blankets would decrease markedly (barrier blankets aren't terribly prevalent in Aus are they?)

They should be loading faster and closer to race time in this country.  A horse standing there for five minutes knowing what is coming up is outrageous.  

Re the brand checkers our checking is done in the plate inspection bay with one on one side and one on the other - both have the sheet and compare the saddle cloth number to the brand for that side.  The plate inspection bay is a logical place because most horses are required to stop, momentarily at least, there.  In this case there were two mistakes with two separate horses.  It defies belief.  I did mention the gear carried but it was identical so can't blame the stipes but would have thought they and the checkers would be in the same general area of the outer parade ring.  

My understanding is that we are required to have those checking staff so why is Riccarton allowed away without it?  At the start is far too late to be checking those things and as The Centaur said if you looked at the preliminary for the wrong horse then backed it only to see a number cloth change you would be pissed.

28 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

I watched the preliminaries and having seen Kaareraway several times before I couldn't work out why the horse was now a bay whereas I was certain it was a chestnut. Put it down to the sunlight playing havoc and actually backed the No.4 on the basis it looked different to what I thought it should look.

What I can't understand if the two horses were a completely different colour why didn't an observer pick up the discrepency in the parade ring.

Wouldn't mind betting it was Matt Cross who alerted them.  He commented over the PA on the Reefton saddles/colours/jockeys debacle and that led to the sort out at the start

Edited May 8, 2022 by Reefton

[nod]

It always used to be the Stipes job to check brands and gear -no logical reason  why it is not now

But really nothing surprises me in three ships country -a few years back when the overhead gates were first used my 2yo was late scratched when she shied at them -she was properly educated but had never seen overhead gates before.

So I went to the secretary [or whatever title now]and asked if we could have a practice  and get used to them -I was told 'no way, she might damage our gates' yer, dinkum

I had the last laugh when she returned to Riccarton  and bolted in at long odds

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, nod said:

It always used to be the Stipes job to check brands and gear -no logical reason  why it is not now

But really nothing surprises me in three ships country -a few years back when the overhead gates were first used my 2yo was late scratched when she shied at them -she was properly educated but had never seen overhead gates before.

So I went to the secretary [or whatever title now]and asked if we could have a practice  and get used to them -I was told 'no way, she might damage our gates' yer, dinkum

I had the last laugh when she returned to Riccarton  and bolted in at long odds

That was the Audible/De Monfort problem - nobody checked the brands in those days and then the decree came down that each club had to have someone to check them.  We make sure we do it - what the hell is Riccarton's excuse?  As an aside(Bernard if you are viewing!) the fact we have volunteers to do the job(and very well too if I may say!) is another example of how our Clubs(and other country clubs) scraps and skimps to save money - that is how we survive - if not prosper.  We dont stick our hand out for the industry to fund the position - we get off our arse and do it ourselves!

[Huey]

3 hours ago, Reefton said:

That was the Audible/De Monfort problem - nobody checked the brands in those days and then the decree came down that each club had to have someone to check them.  We make sure we do it - what the hell is Riccarton's excuse?  As an aside(Bernard if you are viewing!) the fact we have volunteers to do the job(and very well too if I may say!) is another example of how our Clubs(and other country clubs) scraps and skimps to save money - that is how we survive - if not prosper.  We dont stick our hand out for the industry to fund the position - we get off our arse and do it ourselves!

Isn't Bernard now well on his way home?

We have a new CEO now & he is gonna try and finish what Bernard started!

[Reefton]

30 minutes ago, Huey said:

Isn't Bernard now well on his way home?

We have a new CEO now & he is gonna try and finish what Bernard started!

Just taking the Mickey out of them