Rowley Mile Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I think Reefton is closest to our way of thinking with all this, I'll make the point for the last time....I promise.....what get's my back up are these 20 30 somethings that never saw the horses the we saw.......saying Winx is the greatest of all time.......piffle........unless you lived and witnessed those great horses you aren't eligible to argue....[balanced] that is. When I left NZ I had seen or ridden against [same as Reefton's bro] the likes of Triton/Show Gate/Igloo/ Classic Mission/Daryl's Joy/Magnifique, Silver Knight to name a few Kiwi horses, then when I tied mine up at Flemington I faced directly into Bart Cummings and Colin Hayes tie ups.......on many occasions Mrs Rowley walked home, Kingston Rule/Shaftesbury Avenue, and along side, Let's Elope, and from Hayes camp, Better Loosen Up/Zabeel, from Freedmans, Super Impose, Schillaci, Mummify, Mannerism and God alone knows how many more absolute icons......it was a privilege to see and be with those lovely horses......all platitudes to Winx, but for Gods sake stop with this crap, greater horse of all time......Vo Rogue was stabled only a few doors from us when he broke the Flemington track record for 2000 metres......what he did time and time again to the very best was eye watering.....and the poor bugger lived on a diet of vegetable and fruit! Vic Rail fed what we all believed to be a joke feed, totally left field, but it worked......imagine if he had of had the benefit of current vet science.....anyway, I says my piece, and wear my heart on my sleeve......I wouldn't give up those memories for gold bricks, but I don't live in the past either....Thank You. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I assure I'm not a 20 something even though I have a skill at IT! My introduction to racing was in the late 60's - thanks Dad! Was on track to see Showgate, Empire Rose and others through the years. Saw more Harness champs in the flesh again thanks Dad. I've seen a lot of good races on TV or listened on the radio. Sunline, Kingston Town, Dulcify (was a favourite and a tragic loss), Altitude, Bonecrusher, the sprinter era of Copper Belt an co. I could go on. I like numbers and detailed stats. What I've seen from firstly Black Caviar and now Winx is incredible bordering on phenomenal. In my opinion Aussie racing is Wild West no holds barred. I think the last horse we produced that took it to them was Dundeel. I had hopes for Turn Me Loose. Anyhoo! What Winx is doing in today's environment is incredible. No other horse has done it. Are the rest mugs? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 I must add though "bring it on" isn't sport and an online forum about debating this stuff? As a West Coaster/Cantab I'm normally resigned to debating which Canterbury or Crusader team was the best of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I assure I'm not a 20 something even though I have a skill at IT! My introduction to racing was in the late 60's - thanks Dad! Was on track to see Showgate, Empire Rose and others through the years. Saw more Harness champs in the flesh again thanks Dad. I've seen a lot of good races on TV or listened on the radio. Sunline, Kingston Town, Dulcify (was a favourite and a tragic loss), Altitude, Bonecrusher, the sprinter era of Copper Belt an co. I could go on. I like numbers and detailed stats. What I've seen from firstly Black Caviar and now Winx is incredible bordering on phenomenal. In my opinion Aussie racing is Wild West no holds barred. I think the last horse we produced that took it to them was Dundeel. I had hopes for Turn Me Loose. Anyhoo! What Winx is doing in today's environment is incredible. No other horse has done it. Are the rest mugs? No theyr'e not mugs. She's beaten some exceptional horses. Hugh Bowman was asked after last Saturdays win..'what makes her so good'? He said..'she sees the finish and she wants to get there first'! Easy as that.? Kaboom !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I must add though "bring it on" isn't sport and an online forum about debating this stuff? As a West Coaster/Cantab I'm normally resigned to debating which Canterbury or Crusader team was the best of all time. You did say you're resigned to ''debating'' didn't you? not to be confused...so to speak....LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Remember Stipe, the Pope say's you can go blind..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 8 minutes ago, Rowley Mile said: Remember Stipe, the Pope say's you can go blind..... I went to a Catholic school and was educated by the Sister's of Mercy. Now there's an oxymoron in there somewhere. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 you're half right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 At the end of the day is swap you Winx for Kingston Town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 This bloke wasn't bad either of the ones I've seen but sorry RM, she's the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowley Mile Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 12 minutes ago, curious said: This bloke wasn't bad either of the ones I've seen but sorry RM, she's the best. Allegedly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: At the end of the day is swap you Winx for Kingston Town. In equivalent stakes terms today I wonder how much he would have won. I know Winx is up to $21m but Sunline's earnings in the same races today as well? Kingston Town would have had a race like the QE II at his mercy one would think? Though as I remember he didn't get too many autumn carnivals in due to soundness issues. Bowman would have to be very wary - she wouldn't pick up three lengths on him when he (at his best) kicked 250 out. Malcolm Johnston reckoned the way they rode against him in the AJC Derby he had to sprint three times and he still ran away and hid. You lot can bag him - he was an astonishing horse. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Part of the problem assessing Winx is how clearly superior she is to the other Aussie/Kiwis of her time..is she 'lucky' to be so clearly the best of her era - to put it another way, who has she beaten? Name another champion she has beaten...Hartnell?? Humidor?? Gailo Chop? For me what makes her the best of the best of (say the last 20-30 years is the way she wins, often from awkward/difficult positions; the times she runs; her ability to win left and right-handed, and from sprints to middle-distances and in all track conditions. As mentioned in a previous post, we will never know how she would have fared over 3200m; she was unlucky when she lost over 2400m; I have no doubt she'd 'get the trip'...KT at least had the chance to win (and might have won) a Melbourne Cup, carrying a big weight..could Winx do that? She has the motor and the sheer will to win found only in true champions of the turf, and has proved it countless times. There is nothing left to prove. Lord knows what she will do to them in the Cox Plate this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 OMG...it’s MAKYBE DIVA’s birthday...she can also be spoken of in the same breath as WINX...what she did will NEVER be repeated... also there is a magic race in York this evening...what a shame there isn’t a southern representative.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, Weasel said: Part of the problem assessing Winx is how clearly superior she is to the other Aussie/Kiwis of her time..is she 'lucky' to be so clearly the best of her era - to put it another way, who has she beaten? Name another champion she has beaten...Hartnell?? Humidor?? Gailo Chop? For me what makes her the best of the best of (say the last 20-30 years is the way she wins, often from awkward/difficult positions; the times she runs; her ability to win left and right-handed, and from sprints to middle-distances and in all track conditions. As mentioned in a previous post, we will never know how she would have fared over 3200m; she was unlucky when she lost over 2400m; I have no doubt she'd 'get the trip'...KT at least had the chance to win (and might have won) a Melbourne Cup, carrying a big weight..could Winx do that? She has the motor and the sheer will to win found only in true champions of the turf, and has proved it countless times. There is nothing left to prove. Lord knows what she will do to them in the Cox Plate this year. Yes well just you tubed KT and have no reason to change my opinion - and wasn't that M Johnston some sort of rider(from a style perspective I mean)? The tracks were not quite so beautifully manicured then either and had a look of rock hardness about them which would have been tough on his joints. As an autumn three year old the AJC Derby, the Tancred and the Sydney Cup - all easy in the finish and so impressive. proceeded to Brisbane and despite being clearly over the top cleaned up two more(including the Queensland Derby). His four year old first up race was (ironically) the Warwick(now Winx) Stakes and he booted their butts there too. By that stage he was scaring them off though. Beat some good nags though Mighty Kingdom, Double Century, Grosvenor, Ming Dynasty as examples Bottom line is though RM Winx has done every possible thing she has been asked to and done it brilliantly so she cannot be knocked in comparison. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 28 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said: OMG...it’s MAKYBE DIVA’s birthday...she can also be spoken of in the same breath as WINX...what she did will NEVER be repeated... also there is a magic race in York this evening...what a shame there isn’t a southern representative.... Bit like BC and Winx though - special treatment. What did Rising Fast get weighted at for his third Melbourne Cup attempt? And did they water the track to accommodate the favourite in those days? Rising Fast - didn't he tackle the Caulfield Cup Cox Plate Melbourne Cup treble in one year? Even TJ would have baulked at that surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaltedMilkshake Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 She had different track conditions, different trainers...and she turned up and got the prize. I don’t know what more a racehorse could achieve? We certainly didn’t think we’d ever see another horse win 25 in a row after BC, but within several years, Winx goes one better, albeit she is not unbeaten...but MD’s feat, I confidently say, will never, never be repeated... I just believe we have been privileged to witness some wonderful horses over the last 30 or so years...and each and everyone of them holds a special place in our thoroughbred history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, MaltedMilkshake said: She had different track conditions, different trainers...and she turned up and got the prize. I don’t know what more a racehorse could achieve? Doing it on an undoctored track with 61 or 62? And with the bottom weighted horses on 47 or less. Historians a lot older than me will be able to confirm that Rising Fast with that sort of weight went perilously close to winning a second Cup but got nailed by Toparoa carrying something like that 47? And I think he had won the Caulfield Cup and Cox Plate in the two weeks previous had he not? Incidentally my doctor(who is certainly not a racing person) when I told her how much I love the game told me she is Leicester Spring's granddaughter and used to ride Rising Fast in the paddock in his retirement. She said he would bolt with her(not surprising considering she would be lucky to be 50kg now) but also said what a lovely horse he was and how much she loved him. You never know who you will meet! Makye Diva did unprecedented things sure but not too many years earlier she would have been absolutely weighted out of it after her second (and probably her first) cup win. She did win a Cox Plate though so unquestionably deserves the champion tag. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Same thing ....hang on Hughie, I can't see the post yet, when I do we'll put them away then .....no worries. Best I've seen. No doubt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheFear Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 https://www.smh.com.au/sport/racing/science-says-winxs-extraordinary-ability-to-lift-stride-rate-the-key-to-stunning-winning-run-20170406-gvfa4l.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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