the galah Posted August 20, 2022 Author Share Posted August 20, 2022 37 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: what's your URD THEN? Better than yours 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 9 hours ago, the galah said: You sound like you think punters are mugs. Maybe, just some. I would’ve put that horse at Cambridge in my little black book, noting never got a run, nothing activated, rather than advertise the fact to all on social media. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 20, 2022 Author Share Posted August 20, 2022 36 minutes ago, Blackie said: Maybe, just some. I would’ve put that horse at Cambridge in my little black book, noting never got a run, nothing activated, rather than advertise the fact to all on social media. I don't have a black book. I just compare form in each field. I take no notice of what trainers or expert analysts have to say. In fact i prefer it when they tip others in a race i bet on. For example trainer ray green on the lincoln farm website said of riverboy ben was "he will need a big form reversal to figure". I had it rated on top by a couple of lengths,and i believe it ran accordingly,just neaten by its own driver. Its all about comparing the form of who you are running against. Incidentally for My copy he indicated it a good chance who he expected to get handy. I read that after they had run to see what type of explanation they would be giving. As to toodaloolou. If he ends up a similar race to last time,he will be a whale watch horse and the Bookies will open him a hot favorite anyway. Tote prices are very heavily influenced by the FF price and if the whale tips them they pay half of what they real price should be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 I’m picking you won’t be backing it with Mac up? 😎. I’m no punter at all so have a different perspective to yourself but we can probably agree that that filly is not far away from getting another one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted August 20, 2022 Share Posted August 20, 2022 1 hour ago, the galah said: I don't have a black book. I just compare form in each field. I take no notice of what trainers or expert analysts have to say. In fact i prefer it when they tip others in a race i bet on. For example trainer ray green on the lincoln farm website said of riverboy ben was "he will need a big form reversal to figure". I had it rated on top by a couple of lengths,and i believe it ran accordingly,just neaten by its own driver. Its all about comparing the form of who you are running against. Incidentally for My copy he indicated it a good chance who he expected to get handy. I read that after they had run to see what type of explanation they would be giving. As to toodaloolou. If he ends up a similar race to last time,he will be a whale watch horse and the Bookies will open him a hot favorite anyway. Tote prices are very heavily influenced by the FF price and if the whale tips them they pay half of what they real price should be. Maurice can come over here any day .we love ex kiwis jack trainor Craig cross Tim Butt Anthony Butt Brent Lilly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share Posted August 21, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, paleface adios said: Maurice can come over here any day .we love ex kiwis jack trainor Craig cross Tim Butt Anthony Butt Brent Lilly Craig cross. Whats he doing these days.Does he train any in his name? Was he just a fill in while belinda, then john mccarthy served time on the sideline? Edited August 21, 2022 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, the galah said: Craig cross. Whats he doing these days.Does he train any in his name? Was he just a fill in while belinda, then john mccarthy served time on the sideline? Cross Was/Is the stable farrier at Menangle. In all liklihood he still is shoeing for a living. plenty of good ones there to shoe. I always wondered if you got paid more to shoe fast ones ? lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 8 hours ago, paleface adios said: Maurice can come over here any day .we love ex kiwis jack trainor Craig cross Tim Butt Anthony Butt Brent Lilly Hey don't forget Nathan Purdon as well. What a time he has had with Amazing Dream (is it really a year since she won those 2 Group 1's already in Brisvegas.? time flies) and Amore Vita won $1/4 mill over the past year and didn't miss a place I think. great training in group races. Spellbound as well. Haven't seen Spellbound since she ran 2nd early in year to one of your list there in Jack Trainor for Nz with Stylish Memphis in a $200k mares race. wonder where they gone/are? america as well ? with Amazing Dream maybe.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: Hey don't forget Nathan Purdon as well. What a time he has had with Amazing Dream (is it really a year since she won those 2 Group 1's already in Brisvegas.? time flies) and Amore Vita won $1/4 mill over the past year and didn't miss a place I think. great training in group races. Spellbound as well. Haven't seen Spellbound since she ran 2nd early in year to one of your list there in Jack Trainor for Nz with Stylish Memphis in a $200k mares race. wonder where they gone/are? america as well ? with Amazing Dream maybe.......... Spellbound is retired Gamma. Broodmare paddock for her unfortunately due to an injury she received when she came back to Cambridge to race in THE MILE! Devastating for the connections but thats racing I suppose, one minute you are up and then the next you are down! Racing can be a roller coaster 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 On 20/08/2022 at 3:03 PM, Chief Stipe said: Why wouldn't he be "trying"? Where's the gain in not doing so? 'not trying' isn't it a fair claim to make. He's 67 now and I think he's just naturally lost his nerve. The great Maurice Holmes had retired (mandatory) by this age. It's only going to get worse has he pushes towards 70. Guys like Z Butcher and A Poutama are less than half his age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 21, 2022 Author Share Posted August 21, 2022 53 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: 'not trying' isn't it a fair claim to make. He's 67 now and I think he's just naturally lost his nerve. The great Maurice Holmes had retired (mandatory) by this age. It's only going to get worse has he pushes towards 70. Guys like Z Butcher and A Poutama are less than half his age. i've been giving my opinion of his current performance as relates to his driving. You have given age as a factor that may contribute to his current level of performance. Personally i don't think its a given that age has to be a factor in performance. Everyone is different ,possiblly you may be right in this case. However if age is a factor,then how come he can still drive such top races when he puts his mind to it? That is why i have suggested its a lack of desire. His performance in run of the mill races isn't as consistent as it is in races of higher quality. As to "non trying". I accepted that may be not have been the best words to describe it earlier. But the definition of the word try is "make an effort or attempt to do something". The fact that he made little effort or attempt to put his horses in a position where they had a chance was the context for my use of those words. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 I'm surprised any harness driver "tries" anymore. Fined for miscounting whip hits, fined for using your wrist, fined for pushing out, fined for duelling for the lead, fined for not taking a gap, fined for not improving your horse 3 wide...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: I'm surprised any harness driver "tries" anymore. Fined for miscounting whip hits, fined for using your wrist, fined for pushing out, fined for duelling for the lead, fined for not taking a gap, fined for not improving your horse 3 wide...... Do they do any of that at the gallops Chief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 31 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Do they do any of that at the gallops Chief? Not as much but then the RIB are more inconsistent with rule application. In my opinion it is going to kill NZ Racing. Who would you rather have driving your horse? Ben Hope? Or the likes of McKendry or De Fillipi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Not as much but then the RIB are more inconsistent with rule application. In my opinion it is going to kill NZ Racing. Who would you rather have driving your horse? Ben Hope? Or the likes of McKendry or De Fillipi? I like the young drivers, (especially the young ladies) as horses just run and run and run for them. The girls didn't get much of a go 30 years ago with the BIG WHIP drivers and jockeys like Pumper Cassidy and the Enforcer Dittman ,drivers Vinnie Knight and Barry Purdon , etc . nowadays with the rules and penalties applied as they are, as you mentioned , Jamie Kah, Alana Kelly, and at the trots Nat Rass, Sarah O'reilly , Kate Gath, Sam Ottley , the 3 x McMullen sisters in Brissie and many more , the horses respond to them and they get great results.... I'd go Ben Hope to answer your question. Muscle Mountain is a true credit to him !! (beating Sundees Son and all , a few times) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I'm surprised any harness driver "tries" anymore. Fined for miscounting whip hits, fined for using your wrist, fined for pushing out, fined for duelling for the lead, fined for not taking a gap, fined for not improving your horse 3 wide...... I think therein you have actually identified part of the cause that has contributed to the anti RIU feeling for some,that you often talk about. In particular i think the whip issue has created a feeling of unfairness. Its not the rule that participants have an issue with,its the penalties which are given which seem too harsh in comparison with other rule indiscretions. Continually suspending a driver who has no intent to break the whip use rule,and who does so based on years of behavior imprinted in their brain,seems unfair. An element of justification for any penalty, is its to act as a deterrent for future indiscretions.Well when someone is already trying very hard not to do something,then the element of being a deterrent does not apply the same.I'm not talking about the likes of the kerryn manning drive when she won the nz cup,but am referring to the vast majority of indiscretions of this rule. The whip rule has nothing to do with integrity. So why are the penalties so severe? Another issue that i think creates a degree of feeling unfairness is what i believe to be excessive driving penalties given because of the system penalties should be based on the number of drives. It may be fair to the high profile/most active drivers but isn't to someone who gets a couple of drives each week. Why give them 10 times the length of penalty of someone who is getting 20 drives a week. The impact from suspending someone based on the number of drives is excessively greater than it should be on those not so high profile. Lets face it,reality is they are finding it hard to make a living out of the game,and then you go and put them on the sidelines for 3 months.Is that fair? But is it really the RIU who are out of touch with what i have just said. Is it not for the controlling body to give some sort of directive? Or is the controlling body and some its leadership currently happy to stoke the anti RIU feeling. It seems so from what i have read recently. Edited August 22, 2022 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 2 hours ago, the galah said: In particular i think the whip issue has created a feeling of unfairness. Its not the rule that participants have an issue with,its the penalties which are given which seem too harsh in comparison with other rule indiscretions. I disagree. Participants do have an issue with the whip rules. I'm sure most punters have an issues as well. From a driver perspective they are unworkable in my opinion. 2 hours ago, the galah said: The whip rule has nothing to do with integrity. None whatsoever. However when the whip rule(s) are applied inconsistently it very much becomes an issue of integrity for the industry. 2 hours ago, the galah said: But is it really the RIU who are out of touch with what i have just said. Yes. 2 hours ago, the galah said: Is it not for the controlling body to give some sort of directive? Yes. 2 hours ago, the galah said: Or is the controlling body and some its leadership currently happy to stoke the anti RIU feeling. It seems so from what i have read recently. Really? I haven't heard a beep out of Harness leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHorseman Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 Galah, hear ya re whip use and suspensions. Alternative?, maybe remove the whip from the driver for a period? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: I disagree. Participants do have an issue with the whip rules. I'm sure most punters have an issues as well. From a driver perspective they are unworkable in my opinion. I'm a punter. I have no issues with the whip rule. Apart from brodie,i don't hear other punters i know complaining about the actual rule. And even brodies main focus is on the penalties.If the rule was unworkable,then how come 99% of drivers comply with it. As i have said,i believe the issue is the excessive penalties. 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: None whatsoever. However when the whip rule(s) are applied inconsistently it very much becomes an issue of integrity for the industry. If that were the case then i would agree. However,there is no pattern of inconsistency,so i don't think there is an integrity issue around the RIU'S application. In fact i would say its one of the rules where the policing is the most consistent. Go back a few years and i would say the application of the then whip rules were far more inconsistent and actually as much based on who you were as what you did. Have you forgotten that? Maybe the easiest way of identifying why the rule penalties are excessive is just look at who the repeat offenders have been. Look at for example the penalties given to the likes of colin de fillipi or murray edmonds or ian cameron for example. Isn't it obvious that those people have found it harder to adjust because of the behavior imprinted in their brains from years of using it in a certain way. Hasn't it been obvious that just increasing the penalties each time has been unfair and achieved nothing. Whats been the point of having given these people the treatment they have received? It hasn't made too much sense to many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 On 20/08/2022 at 3:03 PM, Chief Stipe said: Why wouldn't he be "trying"? Where's the gain in not doing so? Ray Green runners quite often race better when they are paying over $15.00. His outsiders can go like $1.50 runners. Argyle running a 1.55 mile rate paying $20+ the latest in a long line of upsets dating back several years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted August 22, 2022 Author Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheHorseman said: Galah, hear ya re whip use and suspensions. Alternative?, maybe remove the whip from the driver for a period? Thinking outside the box is often the best way to find workable solutions and your suggestion is an interesting compromise. Personally i like it thehorseman. Punters are currently advised what horses have drivers with no whips,and they factor that in if they think it relevant. Edited August 22, 2022 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted August 22, 2022 Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I disagree. Participants do have an issue with the whip rules. I'm sure most punters have an issues as well. From a driver perspective they are unworkable in my opinion. None whatsoever. However when the whip rule(s) are applied inconsistently it very much becomes an issue of integrity for the industry. Yes. Yes. Really? I haven't heard a beep out of Harness leadership. Chief, you are correct, the last 2 whip rules are just blatantly stupid! How they were passed by a consensus is hard to understand? Thats right there was no consensus, The new Greyhound CEO brought it in when it was a not agreed upon and then it was amended as it was stuffed up!! The current one is crazy as well and there was nothing wrong with the one that worked for decades! The rule regarding interference and enquiries is also stupid and totally needs changing and there is no fairness in it at all! Edited August 22, 2022 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted August 23, 2022 Share Posted August 23, 2022 On 8/21/2022 at 4:27 PM, the galah said: Craig cross. Whats he doing these days. he is a blacksmith and a turbo technician 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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