Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 3 minutes ago, Special Agent said: Yes, but they plan to introduce another brand in conjunction with the current. Now my memory might be a little hazy but I think Dean said something along the lines that the new brand would be because some would have an aversion to using TAB. Why would you create a new brand with all its extra costs in such a small market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, The Centaur said: You seem to be on a different page. The minister has made it plain there is no other betting brand or competition. Where or when did he say that? Certainly not what he said in his Karaka announcement. He said that's what he wants and they would be looking at ways of doing that. The Entain deal is not contingent on it. Though they will pay an additional $100m to the TAB if and when it comes to pass. Edited June 5, 2023 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: But EntainNZ is just a rebranded TABNZ. No. It's not. There is no rebranding involved. Entain have a service agreement to operate the existing TAB brand (and any other brands they may decide to launch as part of that service agreement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share Posted June 5, 2023 59 minutes ago, curious said: Where or when did he say that? Certainly not what he said in his Karaka announcement. He said that's what he wants and they would be looking at ways of doing that. The Entain deal is not contingent on it. Though they will pay an additional $100m to the TAB if and when it comes to pass. My memory is not that bad. McAnulty made it plain he wants to maintain TAB (now Entain) monopoly on betting. Even said its not a back door entry to launch other brands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 14 minutes ago, The Centaur said: My memory is not that bad. McAnulty made it plain he wants to maintain TAB (now Entain) monopoly on betting. Even said its not a back door entry to launch other brands. Yes. He said he wants to. But as I said it's not a done deal and he said nothing about new brands being launched under the auspices of that monopoly. Go back, have another listen and come back to us. “The cabinet agreement to restore these legislative protections was in principle. This means there is still detailed policy work and legislative drafting to do before the updated regulations take effect and I’ll engage with the industry on the designs of these regulations, so they areas effective as they can be. However, it is important to state that my top priorities are securing the industry for the future, providing high paying jobs with good conditions, harm minimisation, a world leading focus on animal welfare and a fair deal for the punter.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 2 hours ago, curious said: No. It's not. There is no rebranding involved. Entain have a service agreement to operate the existing TAB brand (and any other brands they may decide to launch as part of that service agreement). Why would you launch another brand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why would you launch another brand? The stated purpose was to specifically tackle the competition from the likes of Sportsbet and 365 head on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 3 hours ago, curious said: “The cabinet agreement to restore these legislative protections was in principle. This means there is still detailed policy work and legislative drafting to do before the updated regulations take effect and I’ll engage with the industry on the designs of these regulations, so they areas effective as they can be. However, it is important to state that my top priorities are securing the industry for the future, providing high paying jobs with good conditions, harm minimisation, a world leading focus on animal welfare and a fair deal for the punter.” Most people who make announcements make me sick!! These terms like "I'll engage with the industry", "securing the industry for the future" and "world leading focus on animal welfare" are bullshit. He is going to talk to a racing administrator - big deal. He won't be too worried about the future of the industry as he will hold off making decisions long enough to try to secure his political position next term. So, he's going to be the best in the world at looking after animals is he; animals in this country are already looked after better than it's people. If these are all priorities to be fixed what has he been doing for the last three years? So bloody well effective in the role that it is going to take an outside company from another country to revolutionalise New Zealand Racing. If the relevant boards were/are deemed useless, which his actions are inferring, he has to take a lot of the blame for not monitoring what they've been doing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Why would you launch another brand? The alarm bells were ringing for me when told this by the new New Zealand betting boss. What am I missing about all these announcements? I am not feeling the love for Entain others are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Why would you create a new brand with all its extra costs in such a small market? Yes, such a small market!!! How is this market going to exponentially grow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 3 hours ago, curious said: The stated purpose was to specifically tackle the competition from the likes of Sportsbet and 365 head on. Then focus on price. Brand marketing aren't going to do it if you price yourself out of the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 14 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Then focus on price. Brand marketing aren't going to do it if you price yourself out of the market. Pete has circulated this on other sites. Might inform and stimulate the discussion here. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/q-and-a-with-dean-shannon-what-the-entain-austab-deal-means-to-nz-racing/MU2O3JWATNA5HOPJ2ZK2GUDRYI/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted June 6, 2023 Author Share Posted June 6, 2023 3 hours ago, curious said: Pete has circulated this on other sites. Might inform and stimulate the discussion here. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/q-and-a-with-dean-shannon-what-the-entain-austab-deal-means-to-nz-racing/MU2O3JWATNA5HOPJ2ZK2GUDRYI/ The only useful thing I took out of it was that Shannon owns a few horses in New Zealand. The rest typical biz speak or should I say bull s***. We don't need new products (which are just a slight variation on existing ones). Problem gambling can be mitigated by cutting the promotion. Not throwing millions away at another parasitic enterprise. So they are going to introduce new technology. Yeah I can see facial recog taking off like a lead balloon. The deal cuts off enterprise by kiwis themselves who if they have got a good idea must now go offshore. TAB should not be involved with Trackside. We'll probably end up with the half witted messages "Have you considered what gambling is doing.... blah blah" No. The codes should have combined and set up a standalone media organisation covering all media i.e print, digital, audio, internet etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 Q and A with Dean Shannon: What the Entain Aus/TAB deal means to NZ racing By Michael Guerin 5 Jun, 2023 07:00 PM 7 mins to read Save Share Entain Australia chief executive officer Dean Shannon. The deal between the New Zealand TAB and Entain is the biggest in New Zealand racing and gambling history. The Herald sat down with the Entain Australia chief executive officer Dean Shannon to find out what it means for New Zealand punters, the racing industry and his vision for sport and racing better in New Zealand. Who are Entain? Shannon: One of the world’s largest wagering and igaming businesses. Worldwide we employ around 29,000 people in more than 30 markets, all of which are regulated. We have well known wagering brands such as Ladbrokes which was established in 1886, Coral, Bwin and our incredible joint venture in the US market with MGM resorts under the brand of BetMGM. Will the partnership with the NZ TAB be predominantly run out of Australia or come under the UK parent company control? The NZ Tab will be run out of New Zealand with the backing and full support of our Australian operations. It is important to note we run an end-to-end business in Australia and myself and my team having been doing this successfully for more than a decade. So we are bringing a lot of experience and expertise to the table. What can Entain do for the TAB and New Zealand racing? I think it is very important for us to work closely with the three codes and together we can build a compelling future. NZ has a proud racing heritage but has been under-funded in recent years. What we can help do is push the reset button, give the industry some breathing space while we work together to build engagement with a broader audience. We will be offering racing customers a wide range of products on modern technology as well as competitive pricing and more generosities. Do you see the TAB brand remaining in NZ? Yes we absolutely do, the TAB brand has trust and loyalty with many Kiwi customers. We will focus on giving the brand a refresh when we release the new betting app and platform early next year. Could we see a second brand/website/app aimed at younger or sporting audiences? We definitely will see a second brand, to offer choice to the customers to ensure more betting stays on shore and contributes directly back into the racing and sport industries. We need to dig a bit deeper and understand why customers are betting offshore so we can ensure we have a local offering which truly meets the needs of customers. What are the most tangible changes punters can expect? More product, more features, greater generosities, supported by a more agile business which is underwritten by our own technology. We expect to transition over to our technology including new app and website in the first quarter of the 2024 calendar year. We will also be looking to upgrade the retail terminals, retails shops and on course betting experiences. Entain have a good reputation for creating quality racing content. How do you see the broadcasting of NZ racing changing? My team and I are very excited about investing into Trackside. We see a great opportunity to build a lot more content around racing and connecting to a wider audience locally as well as exporting internationally. It has been a big part of our strategy in Australia and we have seen great success connecting new audiences with racing and its participants through great storytelling. NZ has world leading win-limit guarantees for racing through Punters Promise. Will that remain? Yes, it will remain and at the same levels it is today. We recognise the Punters Promise is valued by a number of Kiwi punters. What win limits will there be for sports punters? We will look to introduce a “punters promise” for sport punters, limits are yet to be determined. What guarantees can be given that winning or smart punters won’t face heavier restrictions in the future? Providing the Punters Promise framework is not abused and customers bet within those limits as intended then there will be no reason to restrict it further. In Australia for the last 7 years, we have not closed customers’ accounts because they win and we bet professional punters to the minimum bet rules that are in place. How important is the suggested geo-blocking of NZ punters for Entain and NZ racing and sport? I think it is critical for the growth and success of the racing industry in particular. Too much leakage to offshore operators that contribute nothing to the industry here is alarming, that money should be onshore in NZ. Are you comfortable with geo-blocking legislation including minimum bet laws to ensure NZ punters get treated fairly under a monopoly? Yes, I’m very comfortable with it, we want punters to have a fair go. It’s not only limited to minimum bet but also pricing we want to ensure we deliver a world class product to the New Zealand customers, and we want them to enjoy the experience and part of that is having very competitive pricing. The deal will have enormous upside for NZ racing for the next five years. What are Entain’s forecasts for returns after that? Internally we are forecasting that by the end of year 3 we hope to be ahead of our minimum funding guarantees and further growth beyond that puts the industry in great shape. Problem gambling is very topical. What can Entain do, if anything, to control/monitor it? We have led the market in many ways in safer gambling in Australia. We have started to engage local NZ problem gambling organizations with the objective to let them know what we do to prevent harm and also learn from them through various case studies in the local market. You personally are a huge owner of racehorses, several in New Zealand, how has that helped shape your vision for NZ racing? I have been buying horses from New Zealand for 25 years and been racing horses here for about the last 7. I currently have about 15 horses in the Barry Purdon and Scott Phelan (harness trainers) system. It would be remiss of me not to plug my stable star Merlin, who we are looking forward to plundering some Australian races with him next year. I have met a lot of great people from all the codes over the years and I have always felt welcome and I love the passion here but also the skill, Kiwis are great horsemen and women. This has given me a good understanding of the market here and also of some of the differences between here and Australia which gives me a bit of a head start even though there is still a lot to learn. It also gives me even more motivation to succeed here in NZ , I have a lot of friends here. There are critics of the TAB/Entain deal. What would you say to Entain is a great business, in Australia we have a great track record, often outperforming the market in a very tough competitive landscape. We have built the business from its very first bet into the business it is today, we are a business that built our own technology platform, and we continue to innovate in the wagering space - we know what we are doing. Our main objective is to focus on industry funding once we get that right everything else will flow from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 On 5/06/2023 at 8:44 AM, curious said: Probably to the contrary if it's attracting new wagering customers to bet on something they are familiar with, i.e. sports, they may then be tempted to also try race betting with some good promotion and education, especially if retail venues become nicer and more user friendly and they are mingling there with racing focused folk. What do you think they have been doing to these venues for the last decade? How much more user friendly can they get? What you say simply will not happen, any benefits accruing from such retail actions have already more than materialised. Same goes for getting young people into the sport, what magic wand does Entain have that the TAB or NZTR didn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 The problem attracting new young punters is that the older ones are probably dieing off twice as fast as the new ones.😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Huey said: Same goes for getting young people into the sport, what magic wand does Entain have that the TAB or NZTR didn't? I'm not so sure the wand is big enough either. The Christchurch Cup and Show Week was where people (including the young) wanted to be seen. Then they moved the showgrounds. Then the CJC had the track disaster on their biggest day of the year. We've seen attempts like the Whips 'n' Spurs and the Grand Tour. They all look like piss ups to me. On the harness cafe contributers talk about what got them hooked on racing. Most of it is parental influence leading to the love of the horse and the marvel of the competition. I haven't seen fashion or alcohol as the incentive yet, that is what the heads of racing think we need to push. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloke Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 If you look at Love Racing Promos as well as many Clubs, they show some "Dolly Birds / Flash Harrys" posing with a wine glasses. Well, that puts 95% out of their comfort zones so they give racing a miss. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 Whips and spurs might be better behind closed doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 Gil Dymock used to be an interesting contributor to racing forums. Don't know if he goes by an alias but his recent contribution on theoptimists forum I thought worthy of reprint. Sorry about the plagiarization etc. Gil Dymocksays: May 30, 2023 at 8:46 am This whole sorry saga — which could be titled The Decline And Fall of The TAB Empire — puts me in mind of an early plotline in the 1990s classic gangster movie Goodfellas. In that, a restaurant owner is having trouble making ends meet and enlists the help of the local mafia (an alternate form of government on the mean streets of New York), giving them a share in the business in exchange for ensuring that debts are paid. The mafia take over and in short time turn the enterprise into a cash cow for themselves and their cronies. It can’t last, of course, and the restaurant is blown up, literally. Years back, the TAB went cap in hand to our real government, handed over the keys to the joint and now, having passed through the “jobs for the boys” phase, we’re witnessing the pre-explosion stage of the story. It might all end not with a bang but a whimper. But it will end. Hopefully, whatever takes its place will be better structured than the present wobbly edifice and will be one hundred percent free of the dead hand of government. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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